- Thread starter azhalvy
- Start date
butch-
I know what you mean about the CA gov. campaign! LOL!
It's good to hear I am not the only one who feels this way. JHP is a great place, and probably one of, if not, the best resources for hunters. It can only be great, and stay great if we keep things positive and help each other out. From what I have seen, the people who aren't interested in that eventually just go away, but those who are help to help become part of the family.
Dan
I know what you mean about the CA gov. campaign! LOL!
It's good to hear I am not the only one who feels this way. JHP is a great place, and probably one of, if not, the best resources for hunters. It can only be great, and stay great if we keep things positive and help each other out. From what I have seen, the people who aren't interested in that eventually just go away, but those who are help to help become part of the family.
Dan
m57jager
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2002
- Messages
- 987
- Reaction score
- 43
Csu hunter,
Very well put. Jesse's has ton of information and a great design, but the thing that attracts everyone are the great attitudes and the respect on this page. Something that seems to be dying more with each generation. Like you said we all have different walks in different shoes.
Azhalvy - Glad you had a good time.
Very well put. Jesse's has ton of information and a great design, but the thing that attracts everyone are the great attitudes and the respect on this page. Something that seems to be dying more with each generation. Like you said we all have different walks in different shoes.
Azhalvy - Glad you had a good time.
Sorry guy's, life is full of negative comment's, that's what build's character, I wouldn't retract a thing that I said, If you don't like the way that I approached the subject well... that's too bad,If you would get your head out of the sand long enough to realize what damage these animal farm's are to our sport we would all be in better shape, If you don't stand up for what you believe in , then what do you stand for ?? I wanted to make an impact on that new hunter, he doesn't have to like my reply and neither do you ,but, if it made him think then I did my job , By not condeming , you condone these operation's, it's a tough world out there guy's and if I played kissy-face and feel good politic's like you advocate, there would never be any lesson's learned, as hunter's we are on a downhill slippery slope with no end in sight, and like president Bush say's, you're either with us or against us, there's no middle ground
Slugblaster
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2001
- Messages
- 293
- Reaction score
- 0
AZHALVY- WAY TO GO.When i was looking to go hunting for the first time I had no mentor no family or freinds that hunted so I bought a .30-.30 and went on a WON sponcered pig hunt and had a great time. Then I wanted to take my two sons hunting but couldn't afford a pig hunt except at Big horn. I shot my first pig with a bow. One of my sons shot a pig with a rifle and my other son shot a Dall Sheep with a rifle. They were 12 and it was my 40th birthday. we had great meals and great pictures and a great time. That started my kids off on the right track. They weren,t discouraged by going public hunting and hiking mile after mile without getting a chance to shoot an animal. We got back this evening from trying to fill there J-13 tags. 11 hours of hunting, no luck -great time. We're back out tomorrow at 4:30 a.m. They're ready to go because they remember the Big Horn hunt.Maybe there is a negative impact for those who want it to be but it was a positive impact for us.
USA HUNTER,
Well I guess it's time someone stepped in here. First off Here at JHP we try not to be heavy handed in our moderating. What that means is we like to hear your opinion. Now if your going to state your opinion such as
"If you would get your head out of the sand long enough to realize what damage these animal farm's are to our sport we would all be in better shape"
If your going to state something like this, then I ask you, What damage do farms do to our sport?? If you have some info, it would be better if you put some facts behind your comments.
Second, here we respect everyones opinions. But with that respect comes respecting both sides.
If you have an arguement state the facts and let the facts speak for themselves. You say you've done your job, How?
General comments: At no time is it exceptable to call names or belittle anyone here. If thats what you like to do, there are a bunch of other sites that allow that type of stuff.
Well I guess it's time someone stepped in here. First off Here at JHP we try not to be heavy handed in our moderating. What that means is we like to hear your opinion. Now if your going to state your opinion such as
"If you would get your head out of the sand long enough to realize what damage these animal farm's are to our sport we would all be in better shape"
If your going to state something like this, then I ask you, What damage do farms do to our sport?? If you have some info, it would be better if you put some facts behind your comments.
Second, here we respect everyones opinions. But with that respect comes respecting both sides.
If you have an arguement state the facts and let the facts speak for themselves. You say you've done your job, How?
General comments: At no time is it exceptable to call names or belittle anyone here. If thats what you like to do, there are a bunch of other sites that allow that type of stuff.
This is an interesting thread. I don’t know if CSUHunter and USAHunter realize it, but they are both arguing for the same cause:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Understand first that you are both on the same side! CSUHunter thinks these farms help the sport and USAHunter thinks they hurt the sport. The basic concern you both show is for the sport. As Martha would say, "this is a good thing".
CSUHunter’s basic argument seems to be that this introduces new people to the sport and, by implication, that someone who experiences this type of hunting will remain pro-gun and pro-hunting, whether or not they continue to hunt.
Personally, I can think of reasons this might not always be the case. For example, if one experiences such an easy hunt as is described here, they might think all hunting is like that. They might think all hunters simply drive out to the countryside, walk a few hundred yards, and pop a slug into a doe-eyed Bambi. They’ll not have any information about "fair-chase" in the real world of hunting. Nor will they have any information about habitat, and that hunters are active participants with wildlife biologists in controlling animal populations. I can certainly see how this might turn some people AWAY from hunting. On the whole though, I would suspect that it would produce more pro-hunters than anti-hunters because those who go out to experience it are already tilting in the pro direction.
Personally, I think it’s probably a wash. I don’t like game farms and wouldn’t use them, but don’t think they’re doing grave harm either.
Anyway, I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth. I just think that this could be a valuable thread. I’d be interested in USAHunter (and others?) expanding on his opinions with SPECIFIC reasons why he thinks game farms can be bad for the sport. Same goes for others on why they can be good for the sport.
But, like Evan has said, BOTH SIDES please do so with a civil tongue.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
Understand first that you are both on the same side! CSUHunter thinks these farms help the sport and USAHunter thinks they hurt the sport. The basic concern you both show is for the sport. As Martha would say, "this is a good thing".
CSUHunter’s basic argument seems to be that this introduces new people to the sport and, by implication, that someone who experiences this type of hunting will remain pro-gun and pro-hunting, whether or not they continue to hunt.
Personally, I can think of reasons this might not always be the case. For example, if one experiences such an easy hunt as is described here, they might think all hunting is like that. They might think all hunters simply drive out to the countryside, walk a few hundred yards, and pop a slug into a doe-eyed Bambi. They’ll not have any information about "fair-chase" in the real world of hunting. Nor will they have any information about habitat, and that hunters are active participants with wildlife biologists in controlling animal populations. I can certainly see how this might turn some people AWAY from hunting. On the whole though, I would suspect that it would produce more pro-hunters than anti-hunters because those who go out to experience it are already tilting in the pro direction.
Personally, I think it’s probably a wash. I don’t like game farms and wouldn’t use them, but don’t think they’re doing grave harm either.
Anyway, I don’t want to put words in anyone’s mouth. I just think that this could be a valuable thread. I’d be interested in USAHunter (and others?) expanding on his opinions with SPECIFIC reasons why he thinks game farms can be bad for the sport. Same goes for others on why they can be good for the sport.
But, like Evan has said, BOTH SIDES please do so with a civil tongue.
huntducks
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2001
- Messages
- 3,076
- Reaction score
- 0
You know I started out reading this post with great intriest, and as it went along I figured come on someone has to say how wrong azhalvy was to take his two boys hunting at a game farm where they would get this distorted view of hunting.
When he could have just left them at home to watch TV or play video games, or better yet runnings the streets out terriorizing his neighbors, hey maybe even doing some drugs, that would have been far better then hurting the image of hunting, drugs have to be a true character builder that way they can go through life on that slippery slope, but heaven forbid that they would ever become hunters as there character building would be SHOT hunting game farm animals and the black eye that gives our sport.
So azhalvy please next time just give your two son's a 22 and a brick of ammo and a bag of pot and or maybe some crack, and say son's go out and have fun as long as you don't give the sport of hunting a black eye.
When he could have just left them at home to watch TV or play video games, or better yet runnings the streets out terriorizing his neighbors, hey maybe even doing some drugs, that would have been far better then hurting the image of hunting, drugs have to be a true character builder that way they can go through life on that slippery slope, but heaven forbid that they would ever become hunters as there character building would be SHOT hunting game farm animals and the black eye that gives our sport.
So azhalvy please next time just give your two son's a 22 and a brick of ammo and a bag of pot and or maybe some crack, and say son's go out and have fun as long as you don't give the sport of hunting a black eye.
"Ive been at big horn ranch when the truck towing a trailer drove in , opened the trailer and let the confused, former barnyard ( and judging by how one pig seemed to want to follow us around) family pet's out , only, without warning or any natural survival sense's to draw from, they were shortly thereafter dodging bullet's and arrow's, hurled at them by the same type of people who the day before were feeding them"
I Have seen A truck full of pigs pull up and everyone of them were butchered on the spot(its called a packing house). I think those big horn ranch pigs you mentioned would consider themselves lucky, at least they had a chance to survive.
We need to get past the judging. We need to let the antis know we support animals as a usable resource. To be cared for harvested and replenished.
I Have seen A truck full of pigs pull up and everyone of them were butchered on the spot(its called a packing house). I think those big horn ranch pigs you mentioned would consider themselves lucky, at least they had a chance to survive.
We need to get past the judging. We need to let the antis know we support animals as a usable resource. To be cared for harvested and replenished.
USA HUNTER
The one reason I asked how you've done your job, is because you didn't explian yourself, or offer any arguement. I for one enjoy a good debate, part of a good debate is explaining your side. Now that you have givin a explaination, I understand your point better. I have also been to this ranch, and hunted it. I agree it is not the most challenging hunt. In fact I don't even plan on returning. A few things I know about the ranch though, they only allow a few hunters on at a time, your right the ranch is small, that is why they limit the number of people. Most of the animals are as you call them "Barnyard". As for an experienced hunter it doesn't offer much of a challenge, I don't think it's a bad idea for biggining hunters. Here in california it's pretty hard to be successful for beginners and even experienced hunters. Starting off hunting and not seeing a thing for years is enough to deter most begining hunters. These animals are going to die no matter if it's on the farm or at the hands of a hunter.
The one reason I asked how you've done your job, is because you didn't explian yourself, or offer any arguement. I for one enjoy a good debate, part of a good debate is explaining your side. Now that you have givin a explaination, I understand your point better. I have also been to this ranch, and hunted it. I agree it is not the most challenging hunt. In fact I don't even plan on returning. A few things I know about the ranch though, they only allow a few hunters on at a time, your right the ranch is small, that is why they limit the number of people. Most of the animals are as you call them "Barnyard". As for an experienced hunter it doesn't offer much of a challenge, I don't think it's a bad idea for biggining hunters. Here in california it's pretty hard to be successful for beginners and even experienced hunters. Starting off hunting and not seeing a thing for years is enough to deter most begining hunters. These animals are going to die no matter if it's on the farm or at the hands of a hunter.
m57jager
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2002
- Messages
- 987
- Reaction score
- 43
usahunter,
A guy takes his kids out for a day and they got a couple animals. From your reply, it was an attack on him as well as Big Horn. We all don't have the same opportunities. I don't like Big Horn anymore than I like Santa Ana River Lakes, or the fact that some fish in there are referred to as record book fish. I'm all about the hunt, the pursuit, the learning, and the being in touch with your surroundings. That's my opinion. Am I going to slam another man because he wasn't as fortunate to be raised the way I was? Maybe some people have been shown a different way. We might be able to get those FELLOW hunters started the way someone once did with us. It's how things are said that make the impact.
Huntducks words were true. It wasn't an attack towards you. Would you rather see a guy take his kids on a Big Horn hunt or not take them anywhere? He shows an interests in his kids lives. Enough said.
As for Big Horn, you'd never see me there. I've never seen the place but I don't believe in fences. Hell, I'd have a hard time using a guide. But that's just me, and I'd never judge another because they weren't the same. I enjoy the fact that I may not harvest an animal. In my mind it wouldn't be much fun if you were always successful without putting the time in. Usually your success depends on the amount of time and work put in, and knowledge picked up along the way. I like the challenge. That's hunting to me. Do I think Big Horn should be closed? Naahhh. As I've expressed, it's not my cup of tea but to each his own.
I would tell those who are trying to stop hunting not to tell me what to do because I don't tell you what to do. I don't tell you that you can't shop, golf, knit, or read. So don't tell me I can't enjoy one of my hobbies. If I thought they should close Big Horn than I'd be no better than those telling me I can't hunt. Just some of my thoughts on the matter.
Russman, Like your quote, lmao.
A guy takes his kids out for a day and they got a couple animals. From your reply, it was an attack on him as well as Big Horn. We all don't have the same opportunities. I don't like Big Horn anymore than I like Santa Ana River Lakes, or the fact that some fish in there are referred to as record book fish. I'm all about the hunt, the pursuit, the learning, and the being in touch with your surroundings. That's my opinion. Am I going to slam another man because he wasn't as fortunate to be raised the way I was? Maybe some people have been shown a different way. We might be able to get those FELLOW hunters started the way someone once did with us. It's how things are said that make the impact.
Huntducks words were true. It wasn't an attack towards you. Would you rather see a guy take his kids on a Big Horn hunt or not take them anywhere? He shows an interests in his kids lives. Enough said.
As for Big Horn, you'd never see me there. I've never seen the place but I don't believe in fences. Hell, I'd have a hard time using a guide. But that's just me, and I'd never judge another because they weren't the same. I enjoy the fact that I may not harvest an animal. In my mind it wouldn't be much fun if you were always successful without putting the time in. Usually your success depends on the amount of time and work put in, and knowledge picked up along the way. I like the challenge. That's hunting to me. Do I think Big Horn should be closed? Naahhh. As I've expressed, it's not my cup of tea but to each his own.
I would tell those who are trying to stop hunting not to tell me what to do because I don't tell you what to do. I don't tell you that you can't shop, golf, knit, or read. So don't tell me I can't enjoy one of my hobbies. If I thought they should close Big Horn than I'd be no better than those telling me I can't hunt. Just some of my thoughts on the matter.
Russman, Like your quote, lmao.
Slugblaster
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2001
- Messages
- 293
- Reaction score
- 0
Too many kids today are not being introduced to hunting. My 2 boys are in High School and don't know one other kid that hunts. They get negative response more than positive and they explain why they hunt to these liberal raised kids. As I said earlier I started them off at BHR after a unsuccessful deer hunting season that they were excited about but dissapointed after not seeing a single deer. We got back yesterday after 2 days in Angeles forest trying to fill their Junior deer tags> First Day 11 hours in the field, nothing. Second day, busted twice no shots fired. They had a great time and look forward to next weekend to fill those tags. I think BHR had a positive impact on these young hunters lives. No I wouldn't go back. We are beyond that level now. Yes, I would recomend BHR to a new hunter. Especially a Junior Hunter.
huntducks
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 15, 2001
- Messages
- 3,076
- Reaction score
- 0
usahunter
You are not seeing the big picture just your own view of things, I don't know you nor do you now me but I learned a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time a go never to condem another person until I walked a mile in his shoe's and this truely goes for another hunter.
I have never hunted at BHR and someday might give it a try for there sheep or goats with a handgun
and I have been hunting since I was 6yrs old and i'm almost 55 now, they have yet to have a acciedent out there and I beleive the ranch is 3500 acres, hell I have hunted deer in the east on 80 acres worked a meadow in Idaho for elk with 3-4 other hunter that was less then 500 acres, hunted planted chicken in a field that was 40 acres, and hunted ducks on a pond the size of a postage stamp, IMO size has nothing to do with hunting or safty your either a safe hunter or your not, I use to duck hunt with a pair of guy who NEVER kept there guns on safty
did you notice I said USE TO two trips out that it's on the second trip I found out and never have hunted with them again.
IMHO you are totaly wrong to judge another about BHR or any game farm hunting, should I judge you on your hunting, is your BG rifle large enought or to large, maybe I feel your shooting the wrong bullet, how come you don't reload, do you shoot 2-3 hundred round during the off season to make yourself a better hunter, do you shoot 30 rounds of sporting clays or skeet before dove season, how about 30 rounds of trap before pheasant opener, got the picture.
This guy has his two sons out hunting, and starting them out somewere
and you think it's wrong, no your WRONG for even putting a cloud over there day of sunshine and the way you did it.
You are not seeing the big picture just your own view of things, I don't know you nor do you now me but I learned a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG time a go never to condem another person until I walked a mile in his shoe's and this truely goes for another hunter.
I have never hunted at BHR and someday might give it a try for there sheep or goats with a handgun
IMHO you are totaly wrong to judge another about BHR or any game farm hunting, should I judge you on your hunting, is your BG rifle large enought or to large, maybe I feel your shooting the wrong bullet, how come you don't reload, do you shoot 2-3 hundred round during the off season to make yourself a better hunter, do you shoot 30 rounds of sporting clays or skeet before dove season, how about 30 rounds of trap before pheasant opener, got the picture.
This guy has his two sons out hunting, and starting them out somewere
and you think it's wrong, no your WRONG for even putting a cloud over there day of sunshine and the way you did it.
I'm not one to criticize someone for their opinions, so I won't. But I must say, I think those of you that say I was wrong to take my son out there are being close-minded. Let's look at the bottom line: Spending time with my child and introducting him (and me for that matter) to hunting. If I follow what you are saying then I probably shouldn't be taking him to ANY lake that is stocked with fish. Does that give him a false sense of fishing? Come on guys! I can't think of a better place for a BEGINNING hunter to start! It gets him interested. Should I take him for a 5 hour drive and possible see nothing hunting in the true wild? You think that will interest a 7 year old? I got to spend some quality time with my son and my dad and was able to bag a nice animal. I'm sorry you think this is wrong but you know what?? My #1 objective was obtained - introducing my son to hunting.
Would I do it again?? YOU BET!! Do I regret anything about taking him?? NO WAY!!
Would I do it again?? YOU BET!! Do I regret anything about taking him?? NO WAY!!
shaginator
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 2, 2002
- Messages
- 1,001
- Reaction score
- 0
I hope this thread calms down, soon.
All involved has said their peace (or is that "piece"?), and the "hunt" (or call it "farming" if you want) has been done. Time to move on... scoot, skeedaddle, nothin-to-see here, folks!
Calm down, enjoy a beer (or have some pork chops!)
Otherwise, one of us moderators will just pull the reins in on this thing, yell "WHOA!" and go back to rockin' our chairs on the veranda.
All involved has said their peace (or is that "piece"?), and the "hunt" (or call it "farming" if you want) has been done. Time to move on... scoot, skeedaddle, nothin-to-see here, folks!
Calm down, enjoy a beer (or have some pork chops!)
Otherwise, one of us moderators will just pull the reins in on this thing, yell "WHOA!" and go back to rockin' our chairs on the veranda.
You have to admit , at least we had a spirited conversation, AZHALVY, I meant no disrespect to you or your family just my observation's, but, you can't compare fishing where the fish at least is hidden and has a choice whether to bite or not and you usually must have some fishing skill's to be successful . Nor should you regret anything , I have no difficulty with renewable resourse's, I've killed way more than my share, if I have a problem it's probably that I have great respect for warm blooded animal's and usually can't kill an animal unless I feel the playing field is at least fairly level, some of you guy's are pretty cold, someday we will all be judged and if I was wrong I'll apologize then, until then GOD bless and good hunting, usahunter
