Bull Elk, #1 N. America Big Game Animal???

[Quacker Wacker]

I think that Bull Elk are the Number 1 Big Game animal on this continent, for the average guy. My reasoning. First, the average guy has enough $$ to buy reasonable equipment, gun, truck, camper or caming gear, etc. but doesn't have an extra $5k-$20k year to spend on expensive trips and special guide tags for game like sheep and Moose. While their are tags available in driveable destinations, the availability of Moose, Sheep, and Goat tags in the lower 48 make it hard really have those me your game of choice as you may never get a chance to hunt one let alone harvest one.

I think Bull elk are plentiful enough on public land that anyone can find a place to hunt them annually, where you can get to know the area very well and have a chance at a mature bull every year. The really intriguing thing though, even though you have the chance there are truely skilled hunters who may go 10 years without harvesting even a mature bull elk, let alone a trophy or book elk. These mature 3+ year old bulls just seem to have that sixth sense and slip away from the pressure of man so often. They are magnificent to look at, with their black mane and 750lb bodies. They run in large herds that can make them very difficult to get within even rifle range. In the end if you can score, even the mature trophy bulls of 3-5 years are some of the best, low-fat, high protein meat you can ever stick a fork into.

Compare these critters to buck mule deer of similar status and herd quality and I think on average your success rates more than double. Not only that, but you can't even come close to comparing most Mule deer, especially those from the arid sage brush regions they are most commonly found, on the dinner plate to the meat of an elk. Nor can you obviously compare 50lbs of boned meat to 175lbs.

Antelope get harder and harder to draw, and again ease of hunting, and table fare are hardly on the same level here.

Bear may be a different story, if you are a houndsmen in a state where it is still legal. I have never even been drawn to this type of hunt though I do believe those that catch the bug are quite taken by it, but it still seems that more bears in the lower 48 are killed by deer and elk hunters who happen to have the tag so I doubt one could say killing animals you stumble on while pursuing another would count as the top big game animal.

Cats, I would reiterate the same for houndmen here as that is the only way to consistently get within range of these critters. I doubt one could really consider them game as most of those that take cougars consume them, though I have spoken with two who have and they both called them "mountain veal" and said they are tender, tasty, and not gammy at all. Still, So few actually focus on this sport I could again not make an arguement for it being the best big game animal.

Now, having just moved to Idaho 2 years ago, I have only had 2 years of experience around Whitetail deer. I hear alot about their abilities to elude. In conversation with many who hunt them excusively here in Idaho, mainly because they have wonderful flavor on the table, they seem to have little problem filling their tag with even a mature buck. They seem to be wary but way to willing to stick within a small geographic area and their routing habit seems to be their weakness. While they are much less of a prize in terms of the amount of meat I will certainly concede there are at least an equivilant on the table, but again the success rates tell me they are not near the intellectual challenge that a similar trophy bull elk is.

Wild pigs are alot of fun, their sense of smell and willingness to scoot out of dodge without even a look back through thick cover can make them very difficult to hunt. The difference here seems to be if you can gain access to private property then the success rate is extremely high(at least in California) while there are very very few individuals who can claim to routinely take pigs from public land. In terms of table fare, the right pig can rival any other protein source, but rarely is a trophy bore the equivilant of a 3-5 year old 5-6 point mature bull elk. Now a 5-7 year old Royal does lose it's tenderness but again I am comparing the average trophy not book trophy that most hunters may get a once in a lifetime chance at.

I will avoid the comparisons to upland or waterfowl birds or small game like rabbits. I know many prefer just these, but they seem to be quite a different thing. Kind of like comparing golf to tennis. It is the amount of work and dedication to have the chance to get one animal vs. the numbers of animals taken per day hunted. I'm not discounting. I spent more time duck hunting during my last 10 years in California, because there on average I think the duck hunting is vastly superior to the deer hunting and despite my annual applications I never drew a mule deer, elk, antelope, or sheep tag.

This thread is just another discussion. I don't mean to say, if you prefer black bear hunting then you are wrong. I have fallen in love with elk hunting and just think it is the best all around big game hunting experience for the average guy, like me!

 

[hjames000]

Q.W.

This is a little off track, hope you don't mind. Last October I was in a motel parking lot when a man and a young teen age boy approached and asked how my hunt was going. I told them I was a small game hunter but I enquired about them.

The youth cow elk season had started that morning and the 14 year old had bagged a cow about 30 minutes into the season with a .300 WSM.

The father told me that Az. F&G had held a informational dinner the night before and the father found out that he had been planning to hunt in a closed area. When he changed plans they left their ATV trailer behind and drove to an area where they could park their truck. They then hiked in 1/4 mile and took up a stand and waited.

I really regret not asking, "how in the world do you get an animal that size out?" The boy was small for his age, the father was 50ish and had a desk job.

Can you answer the question, Q.W.?

Thanks.

Jim

 

[tmoniz]

To answer the question, "how do you get an animal that size out." Easy. You bone it out, stuff it into sacks and carry the meat out. You continue til the bulk of it is completely out.

As for the fiftyish desk jockey. Who knows. Maybe he works out. I'm 55 and I still have a bit of gas left in my tank. Give me a good sharp axe and knife and I can get it done. At least I think I can. Otherwise I would quit. But I'm not.

Hunting Elk is without a doubt a great experience, but even if you live in a state where they are thriving it still isn't easy getting that great bull. And, I doubt it can be done year after year.

I had the good fortune at a young age to live in Alaska for several years. I got Sheep, Goat and Bears out of my system very early. They were not fun hunts. Quite often those trips ended up a lesson in survival.

I'm glad I'm still able to hunt anything. I have never taken the time to contemplate the IQ of the game I pursue. They are all very smart. Much smarter than me.

 

[Coues]

I still think deer hunting is the #1 hunt in North America. You can only hunt Elk in a handful of states, but deer are everywhere.

 

[SDHNTR]

I have a hard time buying the part where there are more mature mulies killed than mature elk. I think they are way more cagey. Plus the population of elk is on the rise while the mule deer population is on the fall in most every area they inhabit.

Regardless, I like hunting em both! I agree with you on the meat part.

 

[BOWUNTR]

Hands down trophy mulies are much harder to hunt than trophy elk (bowhunting perspective). Just pick up a P&Y newsletter and you'll see two, three... times as many elk entries than mule deer entries. Mule deer don't sound off and come into calls like an elk does.

Ed F

 

[tmoniz]

I must admit Elk is the best eating. Muleys are far harder to hunt. Getting a good bull isn't easy either.
It's kinda sad how money comes into play when hunting anything.

 

[Orygun]

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Compare these critters to buck mule deer of similar status and herd quality and I think on average your success rates more than double.[/b]

Oreogn mule deer units success rates run from 30-60%. Bull elk is 5%-15%. Excluding limited entry, trophy areas, then rates go up a lot for both. Even with cow or doe hunts, deer area easier to get.

I see more trophy elk in the region hunting rags than trophy muleys. A large elk rack is more more impressive than a muleys. Just because of the sheer size. though I'd be way more than happy with a muley.

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I think Bull elk are plentiful enough on public land that anyone can find a place to hunt them annually[/b]

I would argue that there is plentiful public land in which the average joe can go chase elk. With 5-10 bull per 100 cow ratios, there can only be a ton of bulls if there is a large herd.

I spend a lot of time in areas with deer/elk herds of the same size and find elk to be much, much more difficult to spot, let alone get close to.

 

[Quacker Wacker]

For clarification, I was not comparing trophy class animals, 200" mule deer vs. 400" Elk, I was talking more along the lines of it's alot easier to kill a mature 4X4 mule deer than a 5 or 6 point Elk. Here in Idaho, as I'm pretty sure most western states like CO, WY, UT, etc, the success rate on OTC or easy to draw units for Mule deer are in excess of 40% with a large proportion still being 4pts per side, while bull elk rates in similar zones are 10-15% with a majority spikes and 3-4 pt bulls.

I do understand your point, BOWUNTR, but based on alot of conversations, public land bulls are sure getting call shy vs even 10 years ago. As I think of your point though, it seems fewer and fewer states allow you to hunt Mulies during their full rut, while all of them allow at least bow hunting during the elk rut. Do you really think its as hard to find a 200" Muley during the full rut, as to call in a 350-400" bull elk. I can't answer that one. I'm not yet a trophy hunter. Not book type trophy, anyway.

I did gain a new respect for pig hunting this past week. I went to see a friend and was able to kill a few hogs on a great ranch he obtained access to above Paso Robles where he lives. Well finding and shooting the pigs wasn't terribly hard, but I had to go into about a 100 yard square patch of 5' high brush to flush out a wounded 200lb sow. I went in w/ my piston, .41mag, and all I could see is the brush moving and hear her grunting. It all ended well, after walking toward me about 20 yards, she veered off and stuck her head out of the edge of the brush where my buddy who wounded her put one behind her ear. Exciting though. I doubt anyone has been rushed by a wounded elk or deer?

 

[CaliDuckPro]

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I doubt anyone has been rushed by a wounded elk or deer?[/b]

I beg to differ sir! My pops approached a Mulie he had shot, from the downhill side, and the buck jumped up and charged. Luckily he had a pistol in hand and dropped the buck, just feet from him. Lesson learned, do not approach a downed animal from the downhill side. But it just goes to show you, you never know what any wild animal will do, especially one that is injured and or threatened.

CDP

 

[BOHNTR]

I can only add my experience, having hunted both species for many years. I have to agree with Ed (BOWHUNTR) Mule Deer, by far, are a much more difficult animal to bowhunt than the wapiti, in my opinion. Example: I've been drawn 3 times for Arizona elk in my life......all three times I arrowed record book bulls on public land, along with my hunting partners. On the other hand, I have hunted mule deer every year for the past 20 years in Arizona and have only a handful of trophy mule deer. They are much more frustrating and difficult to close the distance on for us bowbenders. I can't speak for rifle hunters, as I've never hunted with firearms. But for me, mule deer are tougher.

On a side note, I need to get the stat book of Idaho and Oregon and study......30-60% success rate for mule deer?? Man, I'm hunting the wrong state!

 

[SDHNTR]

"Here in Idaho, as I'm pretty sure most western states like CO, WY, UT, etc, the success rate on OTC or easy to draw units for Mule deer are in excess of 40% with a large proportion still being 4pts per side."

Wow. Bold call. I don't have the hard data to refute this but I certainly do not agree based on my personal experience. I personally dont know of any OTC units that are that good. I hunt all over the west. Any unit that I know of with those kind of numbers is going to be hard to draw, probably very hard. Especially the part about the majority being mature bucks. You must have fantastic hunting.

I've bowhunted AND rifle hunted both animals and, on average, a mature mule deer is way more difficult to harvest, by a WIDE margin. Especially with a bow. It may be different where you are, but I think if you ask most veteran hunters across several Western states, most will agree with me.

 

[wmidbrook]

Elk hunting the rut is by far my favority type of hunt. But, I'm fairly new to the sport of bowhunting with only 4 seasons under my belt so far--2 shot ops at nice bulls so far and loads of good memories...I plan on doing more of it.

I've been much more successful in deer hunting--I almost always seem to put meat in the freezer and have shot nearly 30 deer in my life so far with rifle/muzzleloader. I've only be able to get a shot @ 1 4x4 deer with a bow and missed my first season bowhunting...I totally agree that it's a lot more difficult to stalk muleys or blacktail with a bow than to hunt elk with a bow. I haven't put much time into yet.

I have been within muzzleloader range of nice 5x5 or better bulls at least once/hunt during every archery elk hunt. I've only been within muzzleloader or closer range of really nice mule deer twice during a season.

I've been mostly a meat hunter. But, in the last 5 years I've started applying for trophy units and have been trying to tag only wallhangers the last few years; consequently, I've only been bringing home pig meat and 1 nice buck in 2002. If I don't draw a good trophy tag in NM, I'll be doing an opportunity rifle meat hunt (both bull/cow) in CO this year unless I decide to go to ID for the last week of Sept to do an archery elk hunt...I'll figure it out once I get there.

 

[Quacker Wacker]

I love this kind of feedback from experienced hunters and not just computer jockeys who read alot of hunting magazines, from which they've drawn opinions.

Again, I will clarify my point, from which your are free to disagree.

I'm not talking about b&c or P&Y class animals, or those even close. I'm not talking about spike, forkie's or small 3 pointer either. Mule deer I'm talking about a 20-24" 4X4 or possible very nice 3X. Elk, I'm not talking about a spike or rag horn 3pt, I'm talking about a decent 5pt or small 6pt bull. I will stipulate that bowhunting a mature, not even trophy, Elk is probably easier due to calling than a Mule deer, though I'm not a bowhunter, but of course I have good friends who are. Would you admit that bowhunting for mature elk on public land is getting alot tougher the past 10 years as the popularity has skyrocketed. Imagine if you couldn't bowhunt elk during the rut. How tough would that be?

Lastly, my statistics. Here is the link to the 2004, OTC, zone stats for deer here in Idaho. http://fishandgame.idaho.gov/cms/hunt/deer/04rifle_harv.cfm

You will find that 116K hunters killed 35K deer, for a success rate of 31%. Of those killed, 45% were 4pts or better. 2003 was worse at 18% success w/ 25% 4pts or better and 2002 was 34% success/ 40% 4pt or better. When the 2005 stats come out you should find them equal to or better than 2004.

For Elk, for the same three years the success rate overall/% 6pts or better for 04, 03, and 02 respectively were 17/25, 17/24, and approx same for 02(state totals not given, but indiv zone stats were). You were right in that while these stats are for all weapon types, you were more likely than ave to kill a bigger bull with a bow and much less likely to kill a big buck with a bow.

Just to check I looked into Colorado's stats, as that is a state known for both alot of game and a fair number of trophies taken. So, for 2004, 2003, and 2002 the success rates for deer was 46, 43, and 45. Same for Elk was 25, 23, and 27. THere were not stats for horn size for deer or elk.

It is important to note that both states stats included all hunt types, but while both states had similar %buck vs %doe harves stats, Colorados elk stats included slightly more than 1/2 the success rate was for cows/calfs, while Idaho success rate was more than 75% on bulls. Figuring this in on a bull only hunt you are still looking at at best a low teens success rate on any bulls vs. approx 30% success on bucks. At least double the success rate.

Again I say if you were to come out to the western U.S. in hopes of killing a 4pt Mule deer your chance of killing one is approx. double that of the chance of killing a 6pt bull elk on an easy to draw or OTC unit with a rifle.

I will agree that after this discussion I might say that hunting for quality, not trophy, Mule deer vs. Elk with a bow may be a much greater challenge. Though as I think about it, I'd sure rather eat that elk.

Having been from California I can certainly attest that finding and killing a mature or certainly trophy class blacktail on public land in Ore, WA, or Ca is much tougher to do than killing either Mule Deer or Elk, bow or rifle.

I still like Elk the best, at this point in my life. But then again, I prefer my GMC trucks, my Yamaha Grizzly, my Weatherby rifle and my Ruger 20 ga shotgun to all the others at this point and I'm sure everyone else has their favorites for their reasons too.

 

[Taos]

Big mule deer are the hardest of western animals to take. A same age bull as a trophy mule deer is much stupider in nearly all circumstances. I have hunted and guided for both almost all my life and a truly big buck is much harder to take than a big bull!!