ca. Elk hunt 305

[siskiyoucrash]

Well I guess that worked!! Puter illiterate here!!

 

[deermagnet]

The PLM program promotes the European Model of game management where only the wealthy and well connected have access to land and game. You guys in CA should get active and get the DFG to return to the North American Model of Wildlife Conservation. The longer the PLM program continues in its present state, the more you will see private land access decrease and cost of hunting increase. The game animals belong to the people of the state of California, not the land owners. Issuing permits to landowners for use on their property exclusively changes that relationship and makes the game appurtenant to the land. A new way to compensate landowners for improving the habitat needs to be developed that allows the public an easement to access the public game.

It's not just California you would be lucky to find a state or provence in North America that does not offer some type of private landowner incentive for the take of wildlife on their private ground...keep in mind these private landowners pay the taxes and generally feed the wildlife all year, so most of these programs are a legitimate offering to the landowners. Which also pay to participate in the program.

 

[snoopdogg]

Great animal! Glad it worked out for you.

 

[siskiyoucrash]

It's not just California you would be lucky to find a state or provence in North America that does not offer some type of private landowner incentive for the take of wildlife on their private ground...keep in mind these private landowners pay the taxes and generally feed the wildlife all year, so most of these programs are a legitimate offering to the landowners. Which also pay to participate in the program.

So far to the best of my knowledge Roseburg has not even started on the 80 acres of Aspen Regeneration that they agreed to do in return for this PLM program. And as far as feeding wildlife they are useing poisin on all their clearcuts which does not feed one damn animal. They locked up 28k acres which held the bulk of the entire No. Eastern herd. I have no problem with Ranchers who have Hay fields raided nightly getting some landowner tags. This is not the same deal. These Timberlands were Public property for the most part that were given to the RailRoads in the 1800's to build the western RR"s Since they have been sold to various Timber and Land Companies. It was not the intention of the original legislation. Alot of it was actually land where there was only a proposed RR and was never built but they got every other Section where the RR was proposed anyway. Unfortunatly Sacramento is entirely political with no accountability to the Ca. Sportsman

 

[deermagnet]

So far to the best of my knowledge Roseburg has not even started on the 80 acres of Aspen Regeneration that they agreed to do in return for this PLM program. And as far as feeding wildlife they are useing poisin on all their clearcuts which does not feed one damn animal. They locked up 28k acres which held the bulk of the entire No. Eastern herd. I have no problem with Ranchers who have Hay fields raided nightly getting some landowner tags. This is not the same deal. These Timberlands were Public property for the most part that were given to the RailRoads in the 1800's to build the western RR"s Since they have been sold to various Timber and Land Companies. It was not the intention of the original legislation. Alot of it was actually land where there was only a proposed RR and was never built but they got every other Section where the RR was proposed anyway. Unfortunatly Sacramento is entirely political with no accountability to the Ca. Sportsman

Duly noted,,indeed this is a bit different, even as this is natural feed, with law suits and the restrictions of timber harvest the timber companies need to look at alternative ways to pay for their taxes I guess.

Maybe the government..I mean tax paying citizens should pay for timber companies to not harvest timber as they pay for farmers to not farm? Surely their is no easy answer...I too use private timber company ground and will miss the access.

As Joe mentioned there are plenty more elk in the NE unit, but this area does have some great bulls that are easy to locate and hunt.

 

[siskiyoucrash]

Here is an update on the Roseburg property in the x-1 zone. They created their own PLM zone for elk and the Rocky Mountain Foundation as well as volunteers from the Burney Chapter have been doing volunteer work for them on the 28k acres they have in that area. Before X-1 deer season opened they went ahead and posted the whole area No Trespassing and now it is shut down completely to all sportsman access. This includes fishing that stretch of Bear Creek in their property. When the rest of the lumber companies follow suit and post all their lands there will be very little access left as it will land lock a huge amount of USFS also. They are doing this with volunteer help from us the sportsmen. Very sad, and I am no longer supporting the RMEF as well.

 

[Sisqhunts]

I suppose this is old news but I heard it was being discussed at the ISE last week so I decided to chime in.

Here it is from the horses mouth. I'm the guy that is managing the Roseburg PLM. It was largely my decision to enroll those lands in the PLM (with my bosses support). I fully understand why some of you don't like PLM's or what we've done out near Pondosa. But I would ask you what you would do in a similar situation. Here's the Readers Digest version of how we ended up where we are.

For several years I tried working with DFG to get the regular landowner tag program changed. I wrote letters to the F&G Commission asking them to look at changing the way landowners were awarded deer and elk tags. I suggested that several other western states had programs that rewarded landowners for allowing public access to their lands. During this time we were allowing public access to all our property. We were applying for landowner tags but we weren't very successful in obtaining them. All the while the public was hunting Roseburg lands and killing elk. DFG really tried to get me to not enroll in the PLM and I kept pushing back with, get us one elk tag a year and we'll leave it open to the public. Again, I offered many suggestions on how that might be done by changing the landowner tag regulations. I didn't think it was too much to ask that a landowner that allowed access to (at that time) 300,000 acres in CA. I was told over and over our only option to guarantee a tag was to enroll in the PLM. DFG kept telling me how much the public appreciated being able to hunt our lands. Funny, no one ever told us they appreciated it. The final straw for me came in 2010 when I was reading a nationally published hunting magazine. I was flipping through the pages and saw an article title "Magic at My Meadow". There was a young lady with an enormous bull I recognized. I recognized it because it had been shot on Roseburg property the year before. One of our employees had taken several pictures of the bull right after she shot it. After congratulating her, he opened the gate, let them drive in, and helped them load the bull into their pickup. I was anxious to read her story but was disappointed at what I read. She gave a lot of thanks in that article, she thanked DFG for providing such great public hunting and she thanked her family for helping her pack the bull out. Not one mention of the company, however, that allowed access to the ground she refereed to in the article as "hers". Not one mention to the employee who helped her load the bull into the pickup (there was no packing involved).

Skip forward a couple years and we have now enrolled to land into the PLM. I only enrolled elk as I wanted to keep the land open to the public for other hunting. I got the DFG and the FGC to approve our signs that read "No Elk Hunting". We posted the entire property and then the local warden says our signs are not good enough. He said the PLM manual made it very clear the signs must read "No Hunting, No Fishing, No Trespassing". We fought that battle for a couple years but in the end there was just too much suspicious activity happening out there during the elk season and so last year we changed our signs to what the warden wanted us to do all along. The area is now posted No Trespassing.

Over the last few years we have completed well over 400 acres of aspen/meadow restoration. And yes, every year volunteers from the RMEF form all over CA come out for a weekend of camping and habitat work. They use the area as their summer Rendezvous where members get together and talk about all kinds of things from the political challenges we face to what is working at the various banquets. The members really enjoy being able to get out and do some good work on elk habitat. As important as their help is, the vast majority of the habitat work is done by Roseburg.

The tags we get have helped raise over $50,000 for conservation and environmental education. If you watch Team Elk you might have seen a show last fall where we hosted a Wounded Warrior and were able to get her her first bull elk. And yes, the employees have gotten tags. That was the intention all along. We've been able to offer our employees a hunting experience most would never have been able to have without us being in the PLM. When a guys says to me, "thanks, that was the best hunt of my life" I know we made the right decision.

I know our choice has not sat well with many, such as Siskiyoucrash. I talked with DFW after they received public comment and a couple guys called in to complain that we were closing off "their elk hunting land". Lets be clear, that is private property. It's less than 28,000 acres in an elk unit of over 4 million acres. Roseburg allows non-motorized access to the rest of its 175,000 acres in CA and nearly 400,000 acres in Oregon.


To those that oppose the RMEF because they come out and help on our property I will suggest this. We would have done this program with or without RMEF help. Also consider the hundreds of thousands of acres, both public and private, that RMEF has acquired public access to for the sole purpose of elk hunting.

As I stated previously, that's the Readers Digest version. If anyone has questions or comments please feel free to reply or PM me. I'd be happy to discuss.

 

[Bubblehide]

Sisqhunts, thanks for the response. As I am sure your well aware, hunting in California can be tough. There are the poor draw odds, that seem to exist in most western states. But we also have low herd numbers of most big game species. Thus, any lost opportunity is taken pretty hard by most. I for one can clearly see you side of this story and the action taken. I've never been fortunate enough to hunt Roseburg property. I am however well aware of how generous Roseburg has been in the past and continues to be with allowing public hunting on their lands. Institutions tend to be very rigid in what they allow. It's unfortunate that a compromise couldn't be struck.

 

[FRISCOHNTR]

Sisqhunts, very well written response. Private land is just that- private. Thanks to Roseburg for helping the elk in our state.
Jason

 

[vogel002]

An understandable position and it's unfortunate a little gratitude and government cooperation was missing or it seems things could have have worked out for everybody, as a sportsman we appreciate the work you guys are doing along with you taking the time to address the issue personally.

Cheers,
M.V.

 

[siskiyoucrash]

I drew an X-2 deer tag this year:gettin mail: Nice hunt and when we ran into a No Trespassing sign north of Crowder Flat we called the Collins Forester in Lakeview Or and he E-mailed us permission slips to our phones! Great folks Collins and I dropped them a note thanking them after the hunt! This issue is not going away anywhere in the west. I also just got home from Idaho and some Texas Oil Guys just bought 172,000 acres of land out of McCall and locked it up to all! Soon the west will look like Texas!

 

[jrod]

cant imagine that there was a 172000 contiguous for sale. A lot is probably just cattle lease on public land. Just because they have the corner on cattle doesn't mean you cant hunt it if you can get there legally. What unit?

 

[siskiyoucrash]

cant imagine that there was a 172000 contiguous for sale. A lot is probably just cattle lease on public land. Just because they have the corner on cattle doesn't mean you cant hunt it if you can get there legally. What unit?

Sorry you can't imagine it, but it is fact and there is a lot more private lands in Idaho that could be closed. The piece that was just sold and locked up is out of McCall. It was Potlatch land. Potlatch owns a huge amount of the land in the Panhandle area as well, but the last I heard they were selling permits to access the lands for recreation etc. having hunted in many parts of Idaho for the last 26 yrs straight I have been in a position to compare it to the situations we see happening in NorCal. They are behind us a few years, but it will change just like it has changed here. The Timber company's lands are being locked up everywhere around here. Some of it justifiably so, some especially close to towns are treated with very little respect and become dumping grounds for trash etc. Other become Pot Grows , roads become tore up during the wetter seasons etc. The Timber companies also have been sued successfully by the USFS for the costs of fire fighting wildfires on there properties. I think it was Sierra Pacific for one that got hit with a huge bill for a campfire starting a wildfire. The result was no longer any camping on Sierra Pacific lands. There is always 2 sides to any issue, but the simple fact is that we are losing access to hundreds of thousands of acres of lands that in the Pacific North West we and our families have hunted and fished for generations. I am sad for my Grandchildren.

 

[jrod]

Ah ha. Didn't think about the timber companies angle

 

[Gr8bawana]

This will happen a lot more in every state if we as sportsmen and women don't make our voices heard now that the republicans are pushing even harder to transfer our public lands to the states.
Write or email your congressmen, senators, governors and anyone else who can help us stop that from happening. Once the states have control of our public lands they will be sold off piece by peice to fill their coffers.