CA Pig Tags price increase

[dreaminhogs]

Riffleman,

My apologies I think you caught me at a bad time with your post. Sorry for the harsh tone. Brian

 

[Mel Carter]

Backcountry,
I contacted Mr. Terry Cloutier of the MDF and kind of planted a little seed so to speak to see what his recommendation was about an organization such as this.

He did seem somewhat interested, and asked what the main focus of an organization such as this would be. I used Specks comments, and said hog hunting oppotunities and fellowship for those interested in this big game animal. The wild hog fills the gap between deer seasons, and I would love to beable to go to any public land and have a decent chance at being successful. I may speak with him more, he said he would visit with me at the Reno convention they are having in February if I wanted to discuss this further.

In all honesty, how many people here on this board and maybe hunters you know would want to see an organization such as this?

I'll cast the first vote

 

[MikenSoCo]

Damn are we spoiled. We're all living in one of the best places on the planet and don't seem very grateful for the opportunities we have. Rifleman, if you're buying that many tags no wonder you're peeved. It's sure going to cut into your profits eh? The DFG can't even maintain a sufficient warden force, whom by the way are waaay underpaid, and we're whining about a $15 BIG Game Tag? Solution? Try moving/hunting to another country. Snivel me Timbers!

 

[RIFLEMAN]

dreaminhogs,

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My apologies I think you caught me at a bad time with your post. Sorry for the harsh tone. Brian[/b]

No apologies necessary; I'm a little slow to pick up on harsh tones and it never even occurred to me to take it that way.


MikenSoCo,

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Damn are we spoiled. We're all living in one of the best places on the planet and don't seem very grateful for the opportunities we have. The DFG can't even maintain a sufficient warden force, whom by the way are waaay underpaid, and we're whining about a $15 BIG Game Tag?[/b]

First of all, the CADFG should not rely so greatly upon the wallets of sportsmen to fund their operations when the scope of their operations has clearly exceeded that which sportsmen are most directly involved with (i.e. environment hazards). If they tightened up on their responsibilities, they might find the money to fund a suitable number of warden positions. Secondly, CADFG really has no business managing the hog as a Big Game animal. They do so because hogs are ever becoming a cash cow for them and the relative success of hog hunting has deftly shifted the focus of the average California hunter away from CADFG's mismanagement of our deer herds.

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Rifleman, if you're buying that many tags no wonder you're peeved. It's sure going to cut into your profits eh?[/b]

It's not a matter of profits. As I said earlier, try to look at this issue in terms of principle, not pragmatism.

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Solution? Try moving/hunting to another country.[/b]

Gee, what a great idea.

C'mon, Mike, surely you can debate this topic better than that.

 

[Freedivr2]

1. How is it that California is the 5th largest economy in the WORLD and is broke?

2. IF the funds were used strictly for improving pig habitat or management of pig habitat, I could understand that. My opinion...........it stinks to high heaven, poor timing on the part of the state, if nothing else.

I didn't see that anyone had bothered to look it up, so I did....I pulled this directly out of the Dept. of Fish and Game website (the Fish and Game codes)....Unfortunately, my memory didn't serve me right OR this F&G code has been amended, as I'd thought it stated that the funds shall be used strictly for improving pig habitat (don't ask me how anyone could do that, it's just how I thought when I read it for the first time last year). Anyway, here's where the pig tag funds are SUPPOSED to go as of today;

"4656. Revenues received pursuant to this chapter shall be deposited in the Fish and Game Preservation Fund. These funds shall be available for expenditure by the department solely for wild pig management. The department shall maintain all internal accounting measures necessary to ensure that all restrictions on these funds are met."

Now I'm not quite sure if I understand the jibberjabber of what "all restrictions on these funds are met", really and truly means (what restrictions??), you guys can pick at that and interpret it all you want, but it's not clear at all. But, I'm crystal clear about the rest of it. Interestingly enough, it states that the department "shall maintain all internal accounting measures necessary". That's good. And the term "solely for wild pig management". That's better....this means that they are mandated to keep records of what monies are collected on pigs tags and where the money goes to manage pigs. It'd be interesting to call them on this one, maybe even real soon.........("hey.....you're my rep, show me how my pig tags are paying soley for mangement of pigs.........the law SAYS you have to keep those records").

That sounds pretty simple and straightforward to me......and if they truly are using the money for "pig management", that works for me just fine. And no, I don't like the increase in tags either, but I'd rather have that than have some Fish and Game Wardens laid off......our wildlife need MORE good guys out there, not less.....

 

[Shot]

Freedivr2,
Just another question to think about, Does "pig management" also mean paying thousands of dollars to a professional hunter to come and wipe out pigs in an area thats over run by pigs? I don't think most of the money will go and benefit the hunter. Besides with an 900% increase you would think that the pigs are in desperate need of management, I don't think so, the deer in this state needs more managment.

I can't seem to think why the CADFG would need all that money to manage pigs. I could be wrong and the pig hunting in this state gets much better but I think I have a better chance of seeing pigs fly first.

 

[Freedivr2]

Shot.......unfortunately, I would have to say yep, that depredation hunting costs for pigs would be considered managing them (just my opinion).

Lemme see....what oh what could the Dept. of Fish and Game do with more funds for pig management? I know.....they could drop hay bales to them if they were dying of hunger as some deer do up north in severe winters, but pigs are pretty resourceful, so I don't think that's likely. OR how about maybe improving their habitat? I don't know how the Fish and Game could do that at any level on a nomadic, prolific and resourceful species like hogs. What, plant more oak trees for a better acorn crop? Gimme a break.

I can't think of much more that the department can do with "pig management" monies other than 1) increase funding for enforcement or 2) purchase private property with pigs on it and turn it over to the public.

Wait a minute...........didn't the Dept. of Fish and Game just a few years ago sell the Millers Brothers (in Parkfield) thousands of acres of PUBLIC land just west of the Miller ranch between San Miguel and Parkfield for cheap because "there was too much unenforceable poaching" going on, and they "couldn't control it anymore". So they sold the public land full of pigs to a private person (or private company, however they cut the deal for tax purposes) and now the public has to pay these guides bucco bucks to shoot what not long ago were public animals. That shoots down the item 2) above, don't it? So what does that leave us with? More $$ for enforcement IF in fact, it's used for that.

So what I'd like to really know, the 32 dollar question; WHO here on JHO is going to promise to ask their representative for documentation on where the pig tag money is going (as stated in the fish and game code) for pig management? Or would someone like to put together a letter and we all sign it (the power in numbers thing)? I think they need to hear from us, what do you think?

 

[MikenSoCo]

Typical California attitude. Maybe I should be the one to move to another state! Bottom line is you gotta pay to play. We've been buying tags for 8 bucks for a book of 5 for quite awhile. You could hunt hogs the rest of your life and be waaaay ahead of the game. With the DFG academy closing, waredens being laid off, and a couple hundred positions being left unfilled, I don't mind paying my share. Oh ya....no limit? Open year round? Cry me a river!

 

[Shot]

Mike,
Like I said before and many of the other members have said, we wouldn't mind paying the extra if we knew it was going to do us more good. By looking at history, seems like a very small chance. Besides, if the CADFG is in need of money for more wardens of whatever else they need, why increase pig tags only? And like Rifleman said, the CADFG shouldn't rely on the hunter's wallets for money (read his last post).

And speaking of other states, they pay near to nothing compared to what we pay for and get better management. So the bottom line is, its not about the money but what the money goes to that pisses me off and most other people (right?)

 

[Freedivr2]

Mikensoca..........Ol Shot really hit the nail on the head for you so you can understand what A LOT of us are saying here...........it's not about the money (course, no capitalist on the receiving end tends to like price increases, that's against the grain). What it's REALLY about is what is the state honestly going to do with these increased funds/what was their reason for raising them so quickly and at this time? Doesn't that even make you wonder one bit? It does to most of us.

Your comment re: the DFG academy closing; This might be a great fiscal move with regards to shrinking our bloated government. Maybe they're learning a little from good business practice (aka "outsourcing"). When I was considering becoming a Warden in 1973, at that time they were all going thru the Sherriff's academy for their training, and it would be my guess that's what they're going back to doing, vs. having a Police academy, a sherrifs academy, a DFG academy and lord knows what other kind of "law enforcement" academies. Much less expensive and uniform if all under one roof, don't you think?

You might consider not being so quick on the trigger of sarcasm ("cry me a river") to your fellow JHOers.............If you know where these increased tag fees are going, please enlighten us "typical Californians" (hunters are anything but typical Californians, BTW). We're all hunters here, and to some degree, we're all brethren and should treat each other with respect best we can (unless personally attacked, then it's gloves off.....). Later............

 

[MikenSoCo]

No personal attacks ever... I'm simply stating 15 bucks for a tag is more than fair. The money will NEVER go to "Pig Habitat", as they are a non-indigenious species. I'm always respectful of all of you guys, but it truly amazes me the complaining going on when these guys are losing their jobs. I'm sure the money will not go directly to public land pig hunting, but I do believe any bit will help. You all have to admit you've been cutting a fat hog with current tag prices, although I haven't heard anyone admit that yet . Two more thoughts....1) Don't like it? Don't hunt pigs. It's great having choices ain't it? 2) If your thin skinned, don't come in!

Now put your gloves back on before you get hurt, hee hee

 

[spectr17]

Missouri has free hog hunting. They also have a 1/8th cent sales tax that goes directly to the MDC for wildlife management. Of course the money grubbing politicians see this windfall and try to go after it every time they spend the state in a hole. The tax is mandated by law but it's only a matter of time until the politicians get their slimey hands on it.

The raise in pig tag fees reminds me of the Adventure Pass lies. When we asked where the Pass money went the 1st year in the San Bernardino NF the NF supervisor Gene Zimmerman couldn't even produce his budget or where the AP money went. He had promised trail maintenance and other forest improvements but it later turned out the bosses all got new office furniture, new vehicle etc.

You won't see one penny of this pig tag hike go into any hog hunting improvements. It's an easy way to raise some cash and the aloof polticians in Sacramento can count on no stink being made by us hog hunters.

 

[Live2hunt]

If I had a choice to move to another state for better pig hunt opportunities I would move to Texas. No need to have tag to hunt pigs there. All you need is a hunting license if you are a resident. Non-resident paid $35 for license. When CA raised the price in July, the license cost to hunt one pig will be more than non-resident license cost in Texas. Texas has seen some of my $$ through their pig hunts and will continue to see more, but CA fish and game will not be getting any more money from me through pig hunting until they increase additional public land hog hunts, if they increase the tag fee as mentioned.


L2H

 

[Pep1]

For all of you people that think "hey, lets pay more, think what the DFG can do with all of that extra cash." Well, if I recall correctly, every time a special fund has been set up in california through a license stamp or fee, that money is always raided by the socialists in sacramento with a promise to pay back the funds that never happens. The increased pig tag funds will do nothing to increase opportunity in this state. It is mearly generating revenue. As to what the DFG does with the extra cash, it uses it to study threatened species and close of public access in "critical habitat" areas. That means CA native species get priority and if a "exotic" game animal (Pig, Turkey, Large Mouth Bass, Brown Trout, etc...) is in that area it will be exterminated to allow the habitat to go back to its natural state.

Look where the money is going. It costs around $20,000 for every baby being born in an emergency room to a welfare mom or illegal alien. Public service unions have pushed through deals where they can retire on 90% pay after just 20 years. Every state agency knows that they must spend more than 100% of their budget every year, needed or not, or they face a smaller budget in the following year. A ridiculous portion of every budget by law must go to education now and the bloated California Teachers Union that put Grey Davis into power.

With the redistricting of the legislature a few years ago, nearly every seat in the legislature is guaranteed to remain in its current form, republican or democrat. That means that no matter how hard hunters and fishermen gets their balls squeezed by Sacramento, the John Burtons, Jackie Goldbergs, Jenny Oropezas and Herb Wessons will always be reelected until they are termed out and move to the next office to be replaced by one of their stooges. I am surprised that the fees did not go up more. People in San Francisco and Malibu would love for the pig tags to be $500 each.

 

[RIFLEMAN]

MikenSoCo,

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Typical California attitude. Maybe I should be the one to move to another state![/b]

Come back down to earth, Mike...nobody said anything about asking you to leave the state. The idea was ridiculous in the first place, so why would I want to perpetuate it?

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but it truly amazes me the complaining going on when these guys are losing their jobs.[/b]

The wardens will not be losing their jobs; they will be filling other requisitions within the department that have been open for quite some time but were frozen.

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You all have to admit you've been cutting a fat hog with current tag prices, although I haven't heard anyone admit that yet .[/b]

You won't hear it from me because I do not believe that the CADFG has any justifiable mandate to manage hogs as they do. We ought to be managing our hogs as the Texans do...livestock; private property to be dealt with as we see fit.

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Don't like it? Don't hunt pigs.[/b]

Another wonderfully insightful argument...

 

[bayedsolid]

I really don't think anyone here is going to have to quit hog hunting 'cause they can't afford the $15 tag. If you are that poor, then you wouldn't be able to afford the gas to get to the hunting spot. I think everyone is a get's a little touchy when they see prices go up because they never see any benifit from it. We always see tax increases but can anyone name something where they can say, "Oh yea, look how much better things are since they increased our taxes"? It just never happens. Life stays exactly the same and we all pay more. That's why I'm upset over this. If they came out and said they were going to improve something within the DFG, with all the money raised, even if it didn't have anything to do with hogs, I would support it, but I'd all but guarentee nobody will be able to see any difference anywhere this time next year. Next time they want more money maybe they'll require Coyote tags. Right now all dog hunters get to do it for free, just like the hog hunters used to be able to do 10 years ago.

 

[grtwythunter]

My bet is IF, and that's a huge IF, DFG sees any of that money go back into their budget, AND they follow their rules about pig tag revenues going towards a pig management program, more of the money is going to go towards hiring professional hunters for nuisance pigs than is going to go towards sport hunting.

CA's budget problems are no excuse to jack up the price of something almost 900%. In fact all of the tag and license fees are going up again this year.

As RIFLEMAN already stated, the wardens won't be losing their jobs. The real reason for the lack of wardens is the joke the DFG calls their paycheck. Last I looked into it, starting warden's pay was around $35-$37,000 a year and you need a college degree to get in. CHP starts at $45,000+ if I remember correctly and you don't need to spend 4 years in college. I wonder why there's not enough wardens.

I don't remember hearing any of you guys saying the DMV tripling the vehicle license fees was a good idea because employees were losing their jobs and we need to pay our fair share because their fees were too cheap. Seems like it helped put Gay Davis in the unemployment line. What's the difference?

Scott

 

[Freedivr2]

Hear, hear, GTWYTHUNTER & RIFLEMAN.........good posts, matter-of-fact.

The whole point is that I believe that at least MOST of us can agree on one concern we have as hunters paying for deer tags, pig tags, duck stamps, name it; that monies collected under the guise (and legal guise) of critter management be used for that AND NOT to help bail out the state's "general fund". That's what gets the hair up on the back of most of our necks I think. And the timing of this incredible hike when the state needs money just kinda points to what we see as something other than that.

Next guy that says how good we've had it for so long or to go somewhere else or whathaveyou, I'm gunna SCREAM, cause they're obviously NOT getting the point that's trying to being made here..........sheesh.......

 

[New Pig Hunter]

I will say it again: write the new Gov and bring this fee increase to his attention, and to his staff's attention.

Here is something else the new Gov wants to do: repeal SB 60 which would provide a driver's license to an illegal.
SB 60 is obviously a very high-profile bit of politicking which directly affects thousands and thousand of people..... there are Latinos right now planning a boycott on December 12th !! And many of them vote.
http://www.whittierdailynews.com/Stories/0...1785246,00.html

My point is: a increase in pig tag fees is way way down on the Gov's radar horizon and only affects perhaps a few dozen people (and how many of them vote ??). The only way to elevate it into his heads-up "give a darn" display is a blizzard of cards, letters, e-mails, etc that bring it to his attention.

Cheers and Good Activism,

Carl