- Thread starter towerrat164
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spud...I'm usually 'on call' at work if hunting during the week, so I got a phone that vibrates for a ringer. works great.
rather ironic though...I'm out trudging through the woods with primitive hunting gear, basking in the solitude, when my hip starts vibrating and I have to walk someone through some hi-tech troubleshooting.
rather ironic though...I'm out trudging through the woods with primitive hunting gear, basking in the solitude, when my hip starts vibrating and I have to walk someone through some hi-tech troubleshooting.
A modern compound bow is more effective than a crossbow. The limitation of a crossbow is the shorter power stroke and lighter projectile weight. The only advantage they offer is the fact that they eliminate tuning problems and release issues. As far as range; you guys are misinformed. A longbow can be aimed toward the sky and launch an arrow 100 yards the same as a crossbow.
However, my main argument in support of crossbows is freedom. I will be damned if I ever hastily jump on the "anti" bandwagon. My philosophy is live and let live. I prefer stickbows and I also hunt with componds from time to time. However, I will never fight to ban crossbows for those that prefer them.
When do we draw the line gentlemen? Fight for rules and regulations until finally the only bowhunters left are those that whittle a selfbow and make arrows out of willow shoots? We must fight the real enemy and the real enemy is not the minority of bowhunters that use crossbows.
However, my main argument in support of crossbows is freedom. I will be damned if I ever hastily jump on the "anti" bandwagon. My philosophy is live and let live. I prefer stickbows and I also hunt with componds from time to time. However, I will never fight to ban crossbows for those that prefer them.
When do we draw the line gentlemen? Fight for rules and regulations until finally the only bowhunters left are those that whittle a selfbow and make arrows out of willow shoots? We must fight the real enemy and the real enemy is not the minority of bowhunters that use crossbows.
"When do we draw the line gentlemen?" You make a good point, and I ask myself that same question. Personally, I draw the line at allowing a weapon that is not a bow to be used during bow season. I am not against crossbows per se', just crossbows in archery season. I do not have a problem with those who are legitamately disabled using them, but if it came to an all or none situation, I would have to vote none. Would you draw the line at rifles that fire arrows instead of bullets? Exploding arrows? Why or why not?
It was said earlier on in this thread (I am paraphrasing here) that if I am afraid of heights and rockclimbing, do I not have a right to be on top of the mountain? Well, if the only legal way of accessing the mountaintop was to climb it, then no, you don't. I'm not a runner, and I never will be a runner--the Good Lord just didn't build me that way--so do I have the right to be in the Boston Marathon, even though the only way I could qualify would be if they allowed me to use a motor bike? Why not?
Like any sport, rules have to be established and enforced to maintain order. When we start bending the rules for this or that, well.......I believe there are plenty of examples in our everyday lives to see what happens.
I would love for my son to be able to bowhunt with me now, but he cannot pull the poundage, so he won't. As I said before, he has to earn his stripes first, and I believe he will appreciate his first that much more because he worked for it.
As John "Cougar" Mellencamp so elloquently stated (and Aaron Tippen later mutilated
) "You got to stand for something, or you will fall for anything".
Chad
It was said earlier on in this thread (I am paraphrasing here) that if I am afraid of heights and rockclimbing, do I not have a right to be on top of the mountain? Well, if the only legal way of accessing the mountaintop was to climb it, then no, you don't. I'm not a runner, and I never will be a runner--the Good Lord just didn't build me that way--so do I have the right to be in the Boston Marathon, even though the only way I could qualify would be if they allowed me to use a motor bike? Why not?
Like any sport, rules have to be established and enforced to maintain order. When we start bending the rules for this or that, well.......I believe there are plenty of examples in our everyday lives to see what happens.
I would love for my son to be able to bowhunt with me now, but he cannot pull the poundage, so he won't. As I said before, he has to earn his stripes first, and I believe he will appreciate his first that much more because he worked for it.
As John "Cougar" Mellencamp so elloquently stated (and Aaron Tippen later mutilated
Chad
kidcoltoutlaw
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you hate what you don't understand.just like the anti gun people hate guns.bottom line is they both are short range weapons.less movement with a crossbow.very slow on the second shot with a crossbow.string might tear you fingers off if you don't keep them below the track.crossbow easy to use from a sitting position.to tell the truth if its not a recurve it's not archery in the true sprit of the sport.even the recurve crossbow is simple compared to the compound.my rope release makes my crossbow trigger look like it should be sitting on the short bus.the bottom line is if we don't stand as one we will fall in the end,thanks,keith
I don't hate crossbows, and I believe I have at least a basic understanding of them. I have shot them, I know people who hunt with them, and I have talked with people who have shot them in competitions. They are not bows, any more than the .22 rifles converted to shoot arrows are.
Again I say, we have different seasons and different regulations within those seasons for a reason. A baseball bat would come in mighty handy for some folks in a football game; it would give those who have no chance of ever being built like a tank an "equalizer"; it's equipment used in a major sport.......but would anyone in their right mind support using it? Even the most die-hard sporting fans?
If it's just going to be one big campfire, it just as well be one big "hunting season" and use what you want--whether it be a rock or a hand grenade, or anything in between (sarcasm used to try and get the point across
).
Chad
Again I say, we have different seasons and different regulations within those seasons for a reason. A baseball bat would come in mighty handy for some folks in a football game; it would give those who have no chance of ever being built like a tank an "equalizer"; it's equipment used in a major sport.......but would anyone in their right mind support using it? Even the most die-hard sporting fans?
If it's just going to be one big campfire, it just as well be one big "hunting season" and use what you want--whether it be a rock or a hand grenade, or anything in between (sarcasm used to try and get the point across
Chad
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I don't have a problem with crossbows being used by folks who need to use them(disabled). I had the option to get a permit one year when I messed up my shoulder. I have shot one before and I wasn't overly impressed with the power. When viewing the shots from the side we could see them dropping far quicker than the bow shot arrows.What unimpressed me the most was this was a mega poundage and it just didn't have the down range KE that I would want . I don't think that they would bother me if all folks could use them during the regular bow season in most cases. What would bother me is the moron with more money than brains who is just looking for the short cut or just another tag to fill. When I first started bow and muzzle hunting it was dedicated folks who practiced and were doing it for the joy of the methods. What i see now and dislike is the clowns who go buy their gear and go hunting with it right out of the box with little or no practice just to attempt to fill a tag. I hate the fact that everything now is tied to instant gratification where before you would have to work /practice,hone your skills . I must be showing my age .
You bring up a good point vermonsta. I dare say a large portion of the people that grab a crossbow (where legal) go that route because they don't think it requires as much practice as a bow and are just looking to fill a tag. I'm sure that many soon find out that is not the case, but I do wonder how many animals are lost because of this. I know folks here that never shoot their bows until (maybe) a week or two before season opens, just to make sure their sights are still on--they never even take the broadheads off. These guys aren't interested in archery, they just use a bow to give them more time and opportunity to kill something.
Chad
Chad
ArkansasElkHunter
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Man!
"Morons, more money than brains, looking for the easy way out." You guys sure have some issues
Maybe you should think about it like this. Just pretend that there are two separate seasons but as coincidence would have it, the dates are the same. Like Archery and muzzeloading in Colorado. We both hunt at the same time and everybody gets along.
If you don't want crossbows in the archery season, how much should they shorten archery season to allow the crossbow hunters to have their own season. Ooooh, what if the crossbow season didn’t allow longbows and it was the first three weeks of November. We'd miss the rut.
I still can't figure out why there is such passionate opposition the crossbows. I have yet to hear anything even closely resembling a valid argument for disallowing their inclusion into the great sport of deer hunting. Something besides impassioned opinion. I hear lots of arguments that are great reasons for you never to use one, arguments that express your personal feeling on the issue. How are they taking anything away from you, what has it done to degrade archery hunting or damage the deer heard. Touting that “it’s not traditional” or “green hunters wounding deer” are biased and unproven statements.
I still just don’t get it I guess.
"Morons, more money than brains, looking for the easy way out." You guys sure have some issues
Maybe you should think about it like this. Just pretend that there are two separate seasons but as coincidence would have it, the dates are the same. Like Archery and muzzeloading in Colorado. We both hunt at the same time and everybody gets along.
If you don't want crossbows in the archery season, how much should they shorten archery season to allow the crossbow hunters to have their own season. Ooooh, what if the crossbow season didn’t allow longbows and it was the first three weeks of November. We'd miss the rut.
I still can't figure out why there is such passionate opposition the crossbows. I have yet to hear anything even closely resembling a valid argument for disallowing their inclusion into the great sport of deer hunting. Something besides impassioned opinion. I hear lots of arguments that are great reasons for you never to use one, arguments that express your personal feeling on the issue. How are they taking anything away from you, what has it done to degrade archery hunting or damage the deer heard. Touting that “it’s not traditional” or “green hunters wounding deer” are biased and unproven statements.
I still just don’t get it I guess.
I hear you AEH
Think of how "fun" it would be if they realy split up, --> A couple days for longbows only, then compounds only, then crossbows, then rifles, then shotguns, then hand guns, the even go so far as flintlock BP rifles, then cap & ball, then BP hand guns, ECT.
Wouldn't we all love that!!!! You have to own one of everything or you only get a two day season!!
Look at the money they could make by makeing you get a diffrent license for each!!
Heck, why not go real crazy and have men only, ladies only, youths only, seniors only, & so on. days ??
OR, maybe we should all try to get along and stop this B.S. about whether or not our choice is better than the other guy??
I started out with a longbow, then recurve, and then a compound. I am considering a crossbow now as AGE has been catching up to me. I can see that each has its own things that make it diffrent than the other, some good , some bad. It still all boils down to one thing. If you are going to have sucess, you have to know what you are doing or be damn awful lucky to get one.
Think of how "fun" it would be if they realy split up, --> A couple days for longbows only, then compounds only, then crossbows, then rifles, then shotguns, then hand guns, the even go so far as flintlock BP rifles, then cap & ball, then BP hand guns, ECT.
Wouldn't we all love that!!!! You have to own one of everything or you only get a two day season!!
Look at the money they could make by makeing you get a diffrent license for each!!
Heck, why not go real crazy and have men only, ladies only, youths only, seniors only, & so on. days ??
OR, maybe we should all try to get along and stop this B.S. about whether or not our choice is better than the other guy??
I started out with a longbow, then recurve, and then a compound. I am considering a crossbow now as AGE has been catching up to me. I can see that each has its own things that make it diffrent than the other, some good , some bad. It still all boils down to one thing. If you are going to have sucess, you have to know what you are doing or be damn awful lucky to get one.
"I have yet to hear anything even closely resembling a valid argument for disallowing their inclusion into the great sport of deer hunting."
I haven't said that they should not be used for hunting, and if that is what I implied I apologize. What I did say is they should not be allowed for use by the general public during bow season, simply because a crossbow is not a bow.
Some points and questions that I posted that I felt were valid but recieved no answers to:
"As far as what's fair and what isn't, there is no way to make it right for everyone. As far as that goes, I don't think it's fair that I have to pay more than a resident to hunt certain game, even on government land. Heck, it's not fair that I have to travel to even get to hunt that game. It's not fair that some people have access to much better land than I do..........and on and on."
"There are reasons behind the different seasons, and the restrictions within them. If not, there just as well be a "hunting season" and use what you want. I have no problem with people using different (legal) weapons that are within the legal seasons, but on the other hand I don't want to see rifles allowed in the archery season. To me, hunting is about the challenge, not the kill. That is why I use a longbow all season. I was under the impression that the archery/primitive weapons seasons were developed with that in mind also--for folks looking for a challenge."
" 'When do we draw the line gentlemen?' You make a good point, and I ask myself that same question. Personally, I draw the line at allowing a weapon that is not a bow to be used during bow season. I am not against crossbows per se', just crossbows in archery season. I do not have a problem with those who are legitamately disabled using them, but if it came to an all or none situation, I would have to vote none. Would you draw the line at rifles that fire arrows instead of bullets? Exploding arrows? Why or why not?
It was said earlier on in this thread (I am paraphrasing here) that if I am afraid of heights and rockclimbing, do I not have a right to be on top of the mountain? Well, if the only legal way of accessing the mountaintop was to climb it, then no, you don't. I'm not a runner, and I never will be a runner--the Good Lord just didn't build me that way--so do I have the right to be in the Boston Marathon, even though the only way I could qualify would be if they allowed me to use a motor bike? Why not?"
A couple of statements that just don't seem to go together to me.
"As for me I have a Horton Hunter that I'd put up against anything as far as killing accuracy. True it's heavy, awkward, and loud, but deadly accurate. I've hunted with it and still do sometimes. It's my jump and shoot bow and the only thing any hunter has a chance with in some of the thickets I like to push this time of year. More importantly it's the only legal bow my non-handicapped 9 yr old can hunt with me with. That alone make it priceless. (BTW at 40 yds he will shoot quarter sized groups every time - of course he's awesome!!!)"
Followed by "I would suggest to put the crossbow in league with the gun would certainly be more ludicrous than lumping it in with the Bows. At least unless your views of its performance and abilities are even close to being grounded in reality. At 35 to 40 yrds max, the only difference in the hunt is the draw."
If a nine-year old can shoot groups under 1" at 40 yds "every time", how can the same weapon have a maximum range of 35-40 yds in the hands of an adult?
As for the micro-mangament of different seasons, if that were to pass I reckon I would have to abide by the law. I wouldn't try to convince anyone that my weapon of choice was something that it isn't just so I could hunt in a different season.
I don't have any statistics that show that many will look for the easiest way out when it comes to what they call hunting, but I do have this--how many operations can you find that guarantee you a shot, a kill, or even a certain animal that you choose from pictures if you "hunt" there? If these places aren't sucessful, then why are there so many of them and how to they stay in bussiness? Why does it seem like pretty much every new weapon or accessory is labeled as "faster", "easier", "better", etc.? This will tell you more than any statistics you can bring up (which if you look hard enough you can usually find someone who's findings are favorable to what you want).
Now, with all that said..........
I don't hate crossbows, or those who choose to use them. I am not against those who are legitamately disabled using them during archery season. No one will ever convince me that they are a bow though, simply because they are not.
My
Chad
I haven't said that they should not be used for hunting, and if that is what I implied I apologize. What I did say is they should not be allowed for use by the general public during bow season, simply because a crossbow is not a bow.
Some points and questions that I posted that I felt were valid but recieved no answers to:
"As far as what's fair and what isn't, there is no way to make it right for everyone. As far as that goes, I don't think it's fair that I have to pay more than a resident to hunt certain game, even on government land. Heck, it's not fair that I have to travel to even get to hunt that game. It's not fair that some people have access to much better land than I do..........and on and on."
"There are reasons behind the different seasons, and the restrictions within them. If not, there just as well be a "hunting season" and use what you want. I have no problem with people using different (legal) weapons that are within the legal seasons, but on the other hand I don't want to see rifles allowed in the archery season. To me, hunting is about the challenge, not the kill. That is why I use a longbow all season. I was under the impression that the archery/primitive weapons seasons were developed with that in mind also--for folks looking for a challenge."
" 'When do we draw the line gentlemen?' You make a good point, and I ask myself that same question. Personally, I draw the line at allowing a weapon that is not a bow to be used during bow season. I am not against crossbows per se', just crossbows in archery season. I do not have a problem with those who are legitamately disabled using them, but if it came to an all or none situation, I would have to vote none. Would you draw the line at rifles that fire arrows instead of bullets? Exploding arrows? Why or why not?
It was said earlier on in this thread (I am paraphrasing here) that if I am afraid of heights and rockclimbing, do I not have a right to be on top of the mountain? Well, if the only legal way of accessing the mountaintop was to climb it, then no, you don't. I'm not a runner, and I never will be a runner--the Good Lord just didn't build me that way--so do I have the right to be in the Boston Marathon, even though the only way I could qualify would be if they allowed me to use a motor bike? Why not?"
A couple of statements that just don't seem to go together to me.
"As for me I have a Horton Hunter that I'd put up against anything as far as killing accuracy. True it's heavy, awkward, and loud, but deadly accurate. I've hunted with it and still do sometimes. It's my jump and shoot bow and the only thing any hunter has a chance with in some of the thickets I like to push this time of year. More importantly it's the only legal bow my non-handicapped 9 yr old can hunt with me with. That alone make it priceless. (BTW at 40 yds he will shoot quarter sized groups every time - of course he's awesome!!!)"
Followed by "I would suggest to put the crossbow in league with the gun would certainly be more ludicrous than lumping it in with the Bows. At least unless your views of its performance and abilities are even close to being grounded in reality. At 35 to 40 yrds max, the only difference in the hunt is the draw."
If a nine-year old can shoot groups under 1" at 40 yds "every time", how can the same weapon have a maximum range of 35-40 yds in the hands of an adult?
As for the micro-mangament of different seasons, if that were to pass I reckon I would have to abide by the law. I wouldn't try to convince anyone that my weapon of choice was something that it isn't just so I could hunt in a different season.
I don't have any statistics that show that many will look for the easiest way out when it comes to what they call hunting, but I do have this--how many operations can you find that guarantee you a shot, a kill, or even a certain animal that you choose from pictures if you "hunt" there? If these places aren't sucessful, then why are there so many of them and how to they stay in bussiness? Why does it seem like pretty much every new weapon or accessory is labeled as "faster", "easier", "better", etc.? This will tell you more than any statistics you can bring up (which if you look hard enough you can usually find someone who's findings are favorable to what you want).
Now, with all that said..........
I don't hate crossbows, or those who choose to use them. I am not against those who are legitamately disabled using them during archery season. No one will ever convince me that they are a bow though, simply because they are not.
My
Chad
ArkansasElkHunter
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Humm.....
I won't try to convince you what qualifies as a bow or not. Our X-president struggled quite a bit with the definition of sex as well (that’s a joke, btw). I will, however try to make some sense of my earlier statements.
Took the liberty of Looking up Bow in Webster’s anyway:
2 : a weapon that is made of a strip of flexible material (as wood) with a cord connecting the two ends and holding the strip bent and that is used to propel an arrow
I maintain that my crossbow is more accurate, even in the hands of a nine year old, as most any long bow shooter I have been privileged to shoot against. Maybe I should have added effective hunting range to avoid confusion. It doesn’t think for you though. I don’t take shots past 40 yards (with any type bow), not because of the accuracy of the bow, but because we hunt an animated target. Get them out there too far and the kill zone may not be where it was when you release the arrow. .
I shot a Bull Elk with my 30.06 at 330 yards about 6 years ago. He was standing still and it was a decent shot but not one I could have ever made with a crossbow. I also took a Large Whitetail running full out at about 70 yards with the same gun, after jumping him out of his bed in the middle of the day. Again not a super shot but one that certainly points out the differences of a crossbow and a rifle. Once I had to shoot a running bull 5 times to keep him down, incredibly resilient animals. Still think it more like a rifle than a bow.
I agree, I hunt for the challenge. One of my particular challenges is Pope and Young bucks. When I'm hunting a big buck, I pass on anything that dosn't fit the bill. Usually, I'm hunting an individual. I hunt them during archery season. I use a Q2 with sights, a mechanical release and every other technological advancement that will give me an edge. Scent lok, Treestand, Doe urine, whatever. The challenge is getting close enough to a big buck for a shot. I choose to limit that particular challenge to my High tech bow. I hunt for “Deer” with my Home made long bows and flint arrowheads. If it’s brown it’s down. So the challenge of the hunt is ultimately why we all go.
I’m kind of with you on the out of state issue too(Satire). I hunt elk on “National Forest” not Colorado State Forest but still have to pay Out of State fee’s. I’m sure I’d jump that fence in a hurry though, if I were a resident. Been paying them for 25 years and will for the next 25
Not to keep trying to pick a fight, cause we are both sportsman and on the same side at the end of the day, But I still haven’t heard a legitimate argument. If the weapon is deemed legal than it is a legitimate choice in the season it’s approved for. You must have some good argument for believing that the cross bow will do some harm, endanger other hunters, kill too many deer, wound too many deer..... Something to believe that it should not be included besides that the fact that in your opinion “it’s not a Bow”. Opinion, pride and principle are only arguments to limit your own use, not restrict that of others (within the law of course) with opinions that may differ from your own.
I won't try to convince you what qualifies as a bow or not. Our X-president struggled quite a bit with the definition of sex as well (that’s a joke, btw). I will, however try to make some sense of my earlier statements.
Took the liberty of Looking up Bow in Webster’s anyway:
2 : a weapon that is made of a strip of flexible material (as wood) with a cord connecting the two ends and holding the strip bent and that is used to propel an arrow
I maintain that my crossbow is more accurate, even in the hands of a nine year old, as most any long bow shooter I have been privileged to shoot against. Maybe I should have added effective hunting range to avoid confusion. It doesn’t think for you though. I don’t take shots past 40 yards (with any type bow), not because of the accuracy of the bow, but because we hunt an animated target. Get them out there too far and the kill zone may not be where it was when you release the arrow. .
I shot a Bull Elk with my 30.06 at 330 yards about 6 years ago. He was standing still and it was a decent shot but not one I could have ever made with a crossbow. I also took a Large Whitetail running full out at about 70 yards with the same gun, after jumping him out of his bed in the middle of the day. Again not a super shot but one that certainly points out the differences of a crossbow and a rifle. Once I had to shoot a running bull 5 times to keep him down, incredibly resilient animals. Still think it more like a rifle than a bow.
I agree, I hunt for the challenge. One of my particular challenges is Pope and Young bucks. When I'm hunting a big buck, I pass on anything that dosn't fit the bill. Usually, I'm hunting an individual. I hunt them during archery season. I use a Q2 with sights, a mechanical release and every other technological advancement that will give me an edge. Scent lok, Treestand, Doe urine, whatever. The challenge is getting close enough to a big buck for a shot. I choose to limit that particular challenge to my High tech bow. I hunt for “Deer” with my Home made long bows and flint arrowheads. If it’s brown it’s down. So the challenge of the hunt is ultimately why we all go.
I’m kind of with you on the out of state issue too(Satire). I hunt elk on “National Forest” not Colorado State Forest but still have to pay Out of State fee’s. I’m sure I’d jump that fence in a hurry though, if I were a resident. Been paying them for 25 years and will for the next 25
Not to keep trying to pick a fight, cause we are both sportsman and on the same side at the end of the day, But I still haven’t heard a legitimate argument. If the weapon is deemed legal than it is a legitimate choice in the season it’s approved for. You must have some good argument for believing that the cross bow will do some harm, endanger other hunters, kill too many deer, wound too many deer..... Something to believe that it should not be included besides that the fact that in your opinion “it’s not a Bow”. Opinion, pride and principle are only arguments to limit your own use, not restrict that of others (within the law of course) with opinions that may differ from your own.
AEH, first I want to thank you for a very civil reply--guess you sensed I was smiling as I typed. Too often folks take things the wrong way on these message boards. I do appreciate it.
Now....(heh heh) let me play a tump card on your ace. By Webster's definition, a compound bow or compound crossbow is not a bow (key words "flexible" and "bent"). The limbs on a compound may bend a little, but the "bent strip" sure ain't what propels the arrow.
Heck, quarter sized groups at 40 yds is a whole lot better than any bow shooter I know, traditional or otherwise. I consider myself better than average, at least according to the tournaments I have shot in, but I can't touch that. I agree about the animal moving also--I like to keep my shots within 25 yds or less, although I have shot "bull's-eyes" at 65 yds and came within an inch or so of a 1" dot at that range or further, I can't do it every time. I still say you should have that kid competeing.
I'm not a "trophy" hunter, so I can't comment on that much. Heck, I consider the grouse I got last year (I was hunting moose, but they didn't cooperate) "trophies", although if I tried to put them in a book I would get laughed at.
I don't think you are trying to start a fight, and neither am I. We just have opinions that differ.
I'm not at all worried about crossbows killing too many deer--we have more than enough. I am worried about safety in the woods and wounded animals. I have heard it said time and again from folks something like "Man, I wish we could use one of them crossbows, I'd be out there during bow season killing something". When asked why they don't just get a compound, the reply is usually that it's too much trouble, that all they have to do with a crossbow is sight it in, don't have to practice, etc. Whether it's true or not, many people think that a crossbow shoots like a short range rifle. Most all the ones I have heard mention it want one because it's "easy". These are the ones that don't scout, don't practice, and will shoot at basically anything that moves. Legalizing crossbows during archery season will get more of these people in the woods. I personally will not hunt public land, or spots that are close to places that has lots of hunters, during rifle season--it just isn't safe. Of course we have slobs in every season, but one thing that keeps the bigger part out of bow season is because it takes work that they aren't willing to do to be successful.
No statistics, no hard numbers, just my personal experience is what has caused me to form my opinion. That, and the dern things still ain't a bow! lol
Chad
Now....(heh heh) let me play a tump card on your ace. By Webster's definition, a compound bow or compound crossbow is not a bow (key words "flexible" and "bent"). The limbs on a compound may bend a little, but the "bent strip" sure ain't what propels the arrow.
Heck, quarter sized groups at 40 yds is a whole lot better than any bow shooter I know, traditional or otherwise. I consider myself better than average, at least according to the tournaments I have shot in, but I can't touch that. I agree about the animal moving also--I like to keep my shots within 25 yds or less, although I have shot "bull's-eyes" at 65 yds and came within an inch or so of a 1" dot at that range or further, I can't do it every time. I still say you should have that kid competeing.
I'm not a "trophy" hunter, so I can't comment on that much. Heck, I consider the grouse I got last year (I was hunting moose, but they didn't cooperate) "trophies", although if I tried to put them in a book I would get laughed at.
I don't think you are trying to start a fight, and neither am I. We just have opinions that differ.
I'm not at all worried about crossbows killing too many deer--we have more than enough. I am worried about safety in the woods and wounded animals. I have heard it said time and again from folks something like "Man, I wish we could use one of them crossbows, I'd be out there during bow season killing something". When asked why they don't just get a compound, the reply is usually that it's too much trouble, that all they have to do with a crossbow is sight it in, don't have to practice, etc. Whether it's true or not, many people think that a crossbow shoots like a short range rifle. Most all the ones I have heard mention it want one because it's "easy". These are the ones that don't scout, don't practice, and will shoot at basically anything that moves. Legalizing crossbows during archery season will get more of these people in the woods. I personally will not hunt public land, or spots that are close to places that has lots of hunters, during rifle season--it just isn't safe. Of course we have slobs in every season, but one thing that keeps the bigger part out of bow season is because it takes work that they aren't willing to do to be successful.
No statistics, no hard numbers, just my personal experience is what has caused me to form my opinion. That, and the dern things still ain't a bow! lol
Chad
