Disturbing trend

[SierraExplorer]

Originally posted by Muddy Z@Jun 23 2004, 12:26 PM
This site has like a million memebers already so I am sure you can't be worried about losing a few.

One lost from JHO is way to many IMHO- alot of people see this as a "saving grace" that they can not go out and do on there own for reasons of no contacts, personalites, personal intrest, ect.. And some just need a break from the stress of work and need a quick getaway durring the day till they can enjoy that blessed time alone outdoors.


I may type in the likes of a bunghole 80% of the time out of twisted humor- but the fact is there are REALLY GREAT PEOPLE here. Each and everyone in all sincerity and truth.

If anyone needs "coaching/counseling" [/U] it would of been me from my past "Passionate" post on Abalone. But thankfully it was deleated upon request and some have forgiven, some have moved on, and some still hold the views I stated in wrong typing personally against me to this day. And I deserve every part of their dislike from it (If still offended I again appoligise)

Thank GOD "most" everyone here is more forgiving than our spouse's at times in things said in the wrong way.

For some more secure/mature people (that you build a realionship out of typing and emails

) every ribbing is taken with fun or grain of salt. For others that may be offended we need to appoligise, act like a man/woman/human and respect that.

I have had the EXTREAM pleasure of meeting Mel Carter, BDB, in2blacktail, Backcountry, and a few more at my work from here and at a archery shoot and I did not introduce myself at the time

(not out of fear of rejection but was out of time spending with someone else). And some like Brian W. would be more than a great asset to us all, as myself and others have had fellowship with him on the KMA shoots. (I would not be doing the KMA shoots if it were not from here)

Hell if it was not for JHO and it's members, my family and I would not be doing archery and spending more time outdoors in the wild. We would most likely still be doing family stuff outdoors- but Archery and scouting is more purer/fun than boating on the delta with the masses of unsafe people

(+ Jesse has donated a kabottle of stuff for the raffle at the end/drawing)

I only pray that others will have a pleasure meeting me or more deserving JHO'ers out of love- for what we love to do when we get the chance.

Dan


PS- where else can you find people ready to send in a check 11 months ahead of the next JHO Ham Slam? BTW- Speck- when you gona mail out them applications!!!!!!

 

[SierraExplorer]

Cal Hunter- email me some time and we can meet up at a ranch off if 580 for some squirrel/yote Shooting or a cotton tail hunt with Compund bows (might not be ethical but I do not have a slower bow)

 

[Backcountry]

Virtual group hug!

 

[DILPRXO]

Excellent post Philip....passing ya a Red Bull

Now about your driving skills....

 

[VHRAM]

very well said ,this is one site I look forward to seeing everyday.

 

[UPER]

Very good post SPECK, I noticed the "he is a newbie mentality" as soon as I signed up, but I take it with a grain of salt. As for ethical hunting, wether that person hunts from a bait pile, believes in fair chase or road hunts, who am I or anyone else to judge? As long as it is not illegal, to each his own..........

 

[Speckmisser]

Originally posted by DILPRXO@Jun 24 2004, 08:05 AM
Now about your driving skills....

Hey, come on now. I didn't even get us sideways at Tejon this year.

 

[Bwana Turtle]

Kudos, Speck ! As usual very eloquent and in this case perfectly timed. I killed a pig yesterday on a guided hunt, and after the drubbing Vinswitch received, I spent much TOOO much time wondering if I should even bother posting about the hunt instead of savoring the afterglow. I'll probably post the Reader's Digest version with a picture (even if I look like the Michelin Man LOL)

 

[Freedivr2]

Overall, good post, Speck. Nice to see that I'm not the lone tome writer on the planet.......Overall, I agree with your views, but I'd like to add a couple comments to them.

I also echo the sentiment given by Songdog. This IS a great forum for new hunters to learn things from. And when they either on or stepping over the line of "unwritten rules" (which are actually I guess now written rules since the DFG put em in the Hunter Safety Student manuals, but still call em "unwritten"), they need to be guided in a better direction at times. If nothing is said at all about newbies when they are "in the grey", that nobody points that out to them, then they might end up stretching "being in the grey" to "being in the red". My thought is it's better to make someone aware of something of a higher order or expectation than not to do that.

Pointing these things out IN A POLITE MANNER AS WARRANTED doesn't make anyone "holier than thou" for doing so. In fact, when I hear that phrase, as it sounds like a put-down on the mature hunters who elect to show restraint when a grey area presents itself. A parent isn't "holier than thou" because they're correcting a kid, heck, they probably did the same thing at one time in their life. But someone helped them to understand about better manners or "grey areas", and they are doing the same for their child. I also agree that I'm sure there are guys out there who will put themselves on a pedestal when they may or may not have ever traveled that high road. No shortage of backpatters out there or folks taking undue credit. I don't think any of us have a fix for that one, though.

The other item.......one of the previous posts mentioned speaking to the DFG about having "one foot off the road" and shooting being legal. Now this is a real nit BUT might be important to note just so nobody goes off and thinks that particular "gray" area is in fact OK. One foot only off the road is incorrect according to my DFG regional director and a couple of wardens I've heard this from when we had a long discussion about it many years ago at the Sherriff's academy facility in Orange County (during my Hunter Ed. Instructor training). If you have one foot on the road and one foot off, your are still "on the road". You must be COMPLETELY off the road, not partially off the road, when shooting. The bigger question most people used to have was "how far off the road"? The answer was "both feet off the road" (not one, which could also be misinterpreted as a unit of measure, "one foot" away from the road......if both feet are 1/8" off the road, you're good to go). A nit, but just wanted to clarify what I've heard in my experiences with our DFG..........

 

[Bwana Turtle]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

The other item.......one of the previous posts mentioned speaking to the DFG about having "one foot off the road" and shooting being legal. Now this is a real nit BUT might be important to note just so nobody goes off and thinks that particular "gray" area is in fact OK. One foot only off the road is incorrect according to my DFG regional director and a couple of wardens I've heard this from when we had a long discussion about it many years ago at the Sherriff's academy facility in Orange County (during my Hunter Ed. Instructor training). If you have one foot on the road and one foot off, your are still "on the road". You must be COMPLETELY off the road, not partially off the road, when shooting. The bigger question most people used to have was "how far off the road"? The answer was "both feet off the road" (not one, which could also be misinterpreted as a unit of measure, "one foot" away from the road......if both feet are 1/8" off the road, you're good to go). A nit, but just wanted to clarify what I've heard in my experiences with our DFG..........[/b]

Most of us don't have the ability to sit in on discussions in Sheriff's academy classes and I think nit picking can reach a point of absurdity. Is any of this stuff written out in plain english?
It's like comparing the little pamphlet you get at the DMV with the Motor Vehicle Code. A bit off topic, but still . . .

 

[Hogskin]

Good points, Songdog.

Speckmisser, I think I'll print that post out. That way I can read it tonight when I can't fall asleep... zzzzzzzzzz I can't find any examples of JHO'rs piling on anybody. As Songdog says, holler about a boneheaded deed and then defend it after it's been pointed out that it's a boneheaded deed - you get what you deserve. The "vinswitch" post is a prime example. I'd expect to get hammered just like any newbies if I posted that tale.

Bwana turtle, let's see that picture. If you look like the michelin man, I may just have a long lost twin.

 

[Freedivr2]

Yep, Bwana, it sure is written in plain english (check it out in your hunting regulations, which states "you cannot shoot from or across a road"). I also don't sit in on discussions at Sherriff academy classes, that was just the location where the DFG wardens and prospective Hunter Ed Instructors at that time, had this discussion (just to clarify).

The only point I was expressing there, was in regard to a comment made in a earlier post in this thread (by superduty) which stated that someone from the DFG told him it's "OK" to shoot with one foot on the road. I just didn't want anyone to think otherwise and possibly get cited for that "nit", that's all.......

BTW, nice piggie you nabbed there. Congratulations!

 

[Bwana Turtle]

Thanks Freedvr2, I guess I owe it to myself and others to dig out those regs and brush up on them.

 

[SierraExplorer]

Originally posted by Hogskin@Jun 24 2004, 07:59 PM
Good points, Songdog. 


Bwana turtle, let's see that picture.  If you look like the michelin man, I may just have a long lost twin. 

I never have see an French turtle-

I take it they are green also?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

in plain english (check it out in your hunting regulations, which states "you cannot shoot from or across a road[/b]

Yup- I learned that 26 years ago. And I still remember it

may I ask- please place you scourguins on myself and just email some one new that is in a "gray" area out of love and not a public floging.

Granted I deserve all the flogging and them some- but it is the Frogging that makes me shudder at night

Dan

Hogskin

 

[karstic]

Originally posted by Speckmisser@Jun 24 2004, 12:44 PM
Hey, come on now. I didn't even get us sideways at Tejon this year.

That's cause the roads were dry.

In all seriousness well said Speck. I've got close to 1800 post and I feel still feel like a noob. Every member of JHO can have something positive to contribute, whether with one post or 10,000 posts. How's that saying go, "United we stand, divided we fall."

 

[One Track]

Nice timely topic. However, this website is the most tame of any I have ever seen. That's probably due to mindful moderators who keep it in line. For that we are lucky. This place might still be around in five years.

Five years ago or so, I was pretty arrogant in thinking that...if you didn't hike twenty miles over mountains to kill something, you weren't hunting. I have since been edumacated. After lots of reading, I now realize that the term hunting means different things to different people. In Southern California, where I learned to hunt, you do have to cover twenty miles, climb mountains, and sweat bullets, to kill a buck, usually. The flat country in Texas is covered with thick high brush. Those boys need to get up high, in a tripod, and wait for the bucks to come feed. (I'm not sayin' all of you.) They enjoy it. Who am I to negate their concept of hunting. Many folks in the north can't see twenty feet through the trees. Kinda hard to spot and stalk in those conditions. Baiting bears is part of their hunting experience. I thought hunting with dogs was BS. But, since signing on to JHO a few years ago, I've learned that the dog handler gets his enjoyment from training and seeing his dogs work. There are so many different ways to hunt. I'm glad my eyes have been opened to see the difference.

I did a mule deer hunt in Idaho last November. The first five days, I was hiking miles, straight up mountains, to get into a spotting position. Well, it snowed three feet that week. Later in the hunt, I couldn't make the hike. I was only good for a few miles in that snow. I couldn't get above timberline. That last few days were spent on an ATV, road huntin, desparate, hoping to spot a buck from the road. Hog hunting - I've humped miles and miles of that steep stuff at Tejon. After a few days, I was praying to see a hog from the truck. I've only been that lucky once. Doesn't make for much of a story, but it could put pork in the freezer on Sunday, and make for a successful weekend.

My motto has always been, If It Ain't Hard, It Ain't Huntin'. But, I've learned to see the other side. I don't think I could bash on someone for road hunting, and sleep well at night. (Poaching is another thing though.) So, I'm glad to see that most of you feel the same way. New hunters need some direction. Some weren't as lucky as I was to have a dad to teach me right from wrong in the field.

Any who, you guys are right. Constructive criticism is good. Let's give the innocent poster the benefit of the doubt. Really, this is already the "nicest" place on the web. I'll do my part to keep it that way, as long as I'm grandfathered in for the next Ham Slam.

This is great entertainment. Thanks Jesse and friends.

Brent

 

[Marty]

For anyone interested, the CA DFG Fish and Game Code can be found ->HERE.

 

[Speckmisser]

Couple of points.

First of all, while many folks may have fallen asleep before picking up this point from my post, I also agree with Songdog... in respect to anyone who, once corrected, continues to defend an indefensible point. If you want to challenge the criticism, or if you want to keep crowing about something that has already been pointed out as illegal or unethical, then you're on your own. Take your beating and deal with it as best you can.

I won't say that I've seen a lot of "piling on" here either. It's just a trend I've noticed, that it seems that newbies get a lot harsher welcome than might be necessary, then the thread turns into a debate about their hunting methods. I just wonder if it's necessary to hold them under such a microscope on a first visit.

Our newbie friend, by the way, is not the only person to post about using the truck bed for a rest... however, the other poster was never called to task. I'll not point specifically, because I don't think it's worth dragging another name into the dirt.

Apparently this isn't just my imagination, as demonstrated by the majority of responses to my post. People are having second thoughts about posting up perfectly legitimate stories, and that's a shame.

Oh, and as far as shooting from, on, or in any vehicle or its conveyance on or along any public road... check out Fish and Game Code 2006. Technically, I believe Tejon roads are not "public", but I know they try to adhere to the same rules. I also know that, on public lands at least, you can be cited for so much as leaning a loaded weapon against the vehicle. It has happened to many people, including at least a couple of JHO members.

 

[Muddy Z]

There have been many good points made here and yes I have read through this entire post more than once.

I would like to add one comment regarding the majority of these responses:

A lot of folks on this site tend to jump on the bandwagon following a senior memeber's post. This post is no different, it appears that most folks are simply going to agree with Speck because he has been here for a while and they don't want to offend him. There might be 2 other posters that even attempt to post an alternate viewpoint. Instead the majority support the original post, most with a one line response or little to back up their opinion.

I saw the same thing in the questionable posts we are discussing. For every one post against the questionable tactics, there were 10 questioning my own tactics. Surprising how anyone has the balls to post an opinion contrary to the majority.

Basically I will take your advice and be sure to consider if my post would turn off a newbie or offend a long time member because you are a leader of this place and I don't believe in causing trouble, however I don't believe this is required. This is the real world and if we can't be straight up with other hunters, who can we be honest with?

 

[Coondog]

One Track... That was a great post and very well spoken.. We have a lot of people on here from a lot of different places in this great nation.. One of the problems I have noticed is that, since most of the folks on here are from Cali, when somone posts a story that happened in another state they tend to get beat up on as well. This is usually because of the method that was used to harvest the game.. Probably perfectly legal in their area, but not so in Cali.. For instance, my uncle and I drive around his ranch all the time trying to kill pigs and coyotes to get rid of them.. I would NEVER post a story like that for a couple of reasons.. Number one, I dont consider it hunting, he just needs to get rid of them... Number 2, even though it is perfectly legal on his private land, I would get bashed to no end if I posted something like that.. I dont think that there is any way to know all of the rules in every state... Hell I dont know how you can even know the rules in California.. makes my head spin every time you post something from the DFG (or whatever it is called)... The only time I can see jumping on someone is when it is a CLEAR violation of ETHICS.. Shooting after light, at night, etc... I think this forum has been pretty good about it, but it has been getting a little out of hand lately.. Thanks for bringing it up Speck...