Disturbing trend

[Jake]

Muddy Z,

From your post I gather that you are under the impression that "a lot of folks" here do not have a mind of their own, and aimlessly follow the lead of a senior member.
If you read through the volumes of previous posts available on this site, I think that you will find that this may not be true. However since you have only been a registered member since March of this year you may not have had time to do so, or really get to know some of the JHO members.

As for future posts. Speak your mind, share your opinion, but remember that we are a small and constantly scrutinized community. You shouldnt have to walk on eggshells but we wont be served by discouraging new members to join and contribute.

I have opinions on Specks post and on the post in question. Most of them have been expressed by Song Dog, Hogskin, and others so I will conserve the space on the server

MIke

 

[Bwana Turtle]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

h, and as far as shooting from, on, or in any vehicle or its conveyance on or along any public road... check out Fish and Game Code 2006.[/b]

OK I'm not trying to be pissy about this, but 2006 refers to having a loaded gun in a vehicle not shooting on or across roads. In sections 3000-3012 the closest thing I could find was the legal shooting times. My point is that even though things in the regulations are written in somewhat convoluted plain english. Everything at best is distributed throughout the regulations in a somewhat random fashion.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Yep, Bwana, it sure is written in plain english (check it out in your hunting regulations, which states "you cannot shoot from or across a road").[/b]

I have been checking, Maybe not as diligently as possible, being that this is the last day of my vacation, but I've been going through the Fish and game code. I just wish things were laid out in a more user friendly fashion. Maybe they are some where and I'm just not aware of it, which pretty much renders this post moot.
I could be confusing "regulations" with the F&G code ?

 

[One Track]

I have a one track mind of my own.

Going scouting tomorrow morning. Strapping my five year old to the pack frame and going to scout the local mountains. Gotta figure out what those bucks are up to.

Y'all have a kic-kass weekend! It's Friday. Lunch at Rocky's!

 

[Bishop]

Originally posted by Muddy Z@Jun 25 2004, 07:13 AM
A lot of folks on this site tend to jump on the bandwagon following a senior memeber's post.  This post is no different, it appears that most folks are simply going to agree with Speck because he has been here for a while and they don't want to offend him.  There might be 2 other posters that even attempt to post an alternate viewpoint.  Instead the majority support the original post, most with a one line response or little to back up their opinion.      

I saw the same thing in the questionable posts we are discussing.  For every one post against the questionable tactics, there were 10 questioning my own tactics.  Surprising how anyone has the balls to post an opinion contrary to the majority.      

Basically I will take your advice and be sure to consider if my post would turn off a newbie or offend a long time member because you are a leader of this place and I don't believe in causing trouble, however I don't believe this is required.  This is the real world and if we can't be straight up with other hunters, who can we be honest with?      

First off, don't ever be afraid to speak your mind here. It dosen't matter if you have 1 post or 5000 posts.
Nobody here has all the right answers. Many times topics start out with opinions going in one direction, and then the direction changes. That's what debates and discussions do.
Since day one, we have always taken pride in having "the friendliest campfire on the internet". The only thing we recommend is to try and direct critism in a polite and educational way. And like others have said, if someone is just plain doing something illegal or unethical, and they try and defend it; well then they brought harsh critism on themselves. And there going to recieve plenty of it.
The "Adminstrator", "Moderators", and "Pro Staff" are not here to impose their ideas or opinions on any of the members here. Like the members they love hunting, fishing, and the shooting sports. They try to be very supportive of the forum members, and they try and keep the conversations on track and friendly.
Many times debates get heated here, but for the most part there are no insults thrown out, and no name calling, or threats. You don't see that at a lot of other forums. I think most of us like it that way.

 

[sportyg]

Well said Speck, We all get caried away now and again with what we say to other hunters... You pegged it perfict...

 

[larrysogla]

Firearms and the manner in which they are legal to be carried, transported or discharged are regulated under Fish & Game code, State Penal code, County Firearm regulations and City regulations. I do not know if anybody is smart enough to know all the nuances of all these OVERLAPPING rules and regulations. As for me, lawyers are expensive and going to jail or being cited are not fun. I go outdoors, hunt, shoot or scout to enjoy whatever precious time I and my family could spare. Ignorance of the law is never an excuse!!!! I have even removed the stock bandoleer and the sling bandoleer from my firearms because they are illegal in the State of California penal code Section 12031. Who really keeps track of boundaries, demarcations, county lines etc. when we are in the boonies busy looking at signs of game, habitat and just plain enjoying some free time outdoors. Yet we can all get in trouble just one foot over the wrong county line or boundary. The rule is "no shooting on or across the road(trail, dirt or paved,open fields or parking lots etc. open to public acess". This is on p.64 of my 2002 Calif. Dept. of Fish and Game Mammals & Furbeares Hunting booklet. Fellows, the rules have not loosened up, but they are getting stricter & stricter. Remember also that a Law Enforcement Officer does not have to debate with you whether he is right or you are right. All he is required under the law is to write you a citation, make you sign it(you may be arrested if you refuse to sign) and leave you in the dust of his patrol vehicle. Your debate will be before a Judge and you better have a good lawyer(expensive!) with you or you could end making your case worse. The point is, it is always in your favor to give firearm laws, rules & regulations plenty of margin for our lack of 100% awareness, understanding and uptodate-ness. Remember they may have change the rules yesterday and you will not be aware of it and the trend is for firearm regulations to get stricter. Give those LEOs plenty of respect. I have escaped being cited for traffic violations many times just by saying "Good morning officer" and not debating the pullover. Just my 2 cents woth. larrysogla

 

[superduty]

Out of pure human nature I feel compeled now that my name has been used to tell the whole story.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

The only point I was expressing there, was in regard to a comment made in a earlier post in this thread (by superduty) which stated that someone from the DFG told him it's "OK" to shoot with one foot on the road. I just didn't want anyone to think otherwise and possibly get cited for that "nit", that's all.......[/b]

This is how it whent down fellow JHO'ers. I grew up hunting the Blyth or Palo Verde Basin area for rabbit, quail, dove, duck, goose, and pleanty of catfishing. This is the area where the scene of the so called crime happened. I took my wife and sister on a family pheasant hunt hosted by California DFG in Blythe last year. We were standing on the ROAD. I was leaning against the front end of the WARDEN'S vehicle while he was giving my GSP a fresh drink of water. In the adjacent field were some hunters with a out of control lab just running his heart out while his master was hot at chace. The dog flushed a pheasant that proceeded to fly in our direction. The WARDEN then asked me if I was going to shoot it. I responded with NO we are on the road. Now what type of road this is hell I don't know what it classifies as its dirt, has tire tracks on it, and splits the fields. You tell me. Anyways, he tells me just put one foot off the road and I am legal. BOOM

I drop the bird and my GSP makes the retrieve. He replys nice shot. I figure I had a free pass given he had the badge and not me. I asked him what the rule was on that and he says he hunts with his commander and they always whent by one foot off the road makes you legal. Personnely without him being there and telling me to take the shot it wouldn't have happened and probably still won't happen in the future. But according to the law man I was legal. Now what the rules are on a private VS public road and what you would consider a road might have bearing on the rules. I know I have shot many of above mentioned animals on and in heavy brush, tamarack, toolies, sand with tire tracks on it in the immediate area growing up. WAS I HUNTING ILLEGALLY?? I think not.

I believe as posted by many of you that the laws are only getting more stringent so my sugestion would be this. Learn the areas you like to hunt as much as possible. Learn as much about the legalities of that area being some private ranches have their own set of rules also. If you have a question to something then take the safe bet unless there is somebody there to provide you an educated answer.

 

[birdhunter88]

As a newbie to the site I just want to say that I have found everyone to be very friendly and helpful. I know that I am one of just a handful of people who are from the midwest (Iowa) and that alot of the members here (the more vocal one's) are from Ca. or the S or SW like Az or Tx.... but not one sole has every treated me in an unfavorable way. Everyone has always been happy to respond to questions and comments that I have made and I really do appreciate the honesty and openess of the members here at JHO.

The other night I logged on to the chat room for the first time and was very pleasantly surprised at the greeting that I recieved right away. Hell, someone there even remembered that I had 2 GSP's and commented about it right away without me bringing it up. This is a great site and will continue to visit JHO in the future. You guys have a good thing going here. Kudos to you all !

Now if I were to ever get out of line and posted something really stupid. Hey, I'm a big boy and I have thick skin. Fire away ! I am man enough to admit if I have made a mistake as most people should be. But if you were to attack me personnally and started calling me a dipsh*t or something like that.... you bet I will fire back. But I won't hold a grudge. But I am also not going to get into a name calling contest with that person either. I believe that everyone has their opinions and should be welcomed to share their opinions without being called names in doing so. Thats why this is a free America and the greatest country in the world. Freedom of Speach !

Thanks for a great site Speck

bird

 

[huntducks]

Lets face it the majorty of the users here are from Ca.

The main reason things get screwed around is people don't list there location where they live (that seems to always be the NEWBEE) so what is common hunting in Maine might be considered NOT in Ca. and so forth.

IT SHOULD BE MANDATORY TO REGISTER YOU HAVE TO GIVE LOCATION EITHER STATE OR CITY YOUR CHOICE OR WHAT EVER YOU WANT???

I have seen posts here where someone says they shoot there deer or hogs with a 223 then 5 guys jump in and say you can't use a 22 cal min 243, well that might be RIGHT in your state but if we don't know where you live or are talking about we only assume it was same as original post.

Another one is someone will post i'm thinking of buying a new gun, i'm going to hunt deer with it,should I buy a 300 RUM or a 243? no location no area where they are using, it sure would make it easy if you could at least look and see where this person lived.

My motto is simple, until you have walked in someone else's shoes you have nothing to say about there way of hunting AS LONG AS IT LEGAL.

GUYS PLEASE ADD YOUR LOCATION WHERE YOU LIVE, know one is going to come hunt you down in your home state if you do.

 

[Freedivr2]

Originally posted by superduty@Jun 28 2004, 07:24 AM
If you have a question to something then take the safe bet unless there is somebody there to provide you an educated answer.

Superduty, very well put.......

One thing I've (and many others) learned over the years is that our wardens can interpret the Fish and Game code differently, and it also depends on the circumstances. You had the perfect situation, with the Warden right there, being friendly, and he gave you the leeway (my opinion) because it was a safe situation and because you had been shootin the breeze and established a bond. My bet is that another day, another warden could've very easily been a totally different story. There are some wardens that go strictly by the book.

Most wardens I've met are great guys, and do use personal judgement in a lot of situations. They have to just because the nature of their business is so different than that of other law enforcement officers. Most of them hunt and/or fish, and have a kinship to us, and that's certainly to our benefit when we're being legal and respectable to them. Case in point completely with your pheasant story for sure.

Course I had to test this out (in theory) one day, too. I was spearfishing off Malaga Cove (Palos Verdes) some years back, and didn't see anything worth sticking. Came back to shore and for the first time in many, many years, there was a warden standing there. He asked for my liscense, I showed him it, and then I asked what I thought was a reasonable question, prefaced with the fact that dive masks usually magnify your fish about 25% (a 8" calico will look legal, etc.). I asked him would he cite me if I had shot a halibut that was 21" long (because with the magnification factor, it would've looked 28"). Unlike fishermen, spearfishing doesn't give us an opportunity for "catch and release". His comment was that he would cite me in a minute for being under the limit size because unlike fishermen, divers have the opportunity to "pick" which fish they want to bag (course, from that comment I knew he never did much diving.....it's not like you're at the fish market out there....). I thought there might be a little leeway on an honest mistake made like that, but he said, nope, he'd write up any diver for any undersized fish, no matter how close. Following that advice, from that day on, I only shot calicos that looked 24" and halibut that looked 30" (BTW, a halibut I speared in Hermosa beach a few years back looked 30" but was only 22 1/2....whew!). Sorry for the tome..........

 

[F350]

Okay guys,
I've been away from the H&H board for a while and have come back to read this.

2 things, 1... I myself have been guilty of a little bashing and over opinionated posting.

2...To those of you I have offended (newbie or Vet), I'm sorry.

Speck's right in just about everything he said. We unfortunately, have to work harder to preserve our image on the rest of the world.

If you think the extremist groups and the media aren't coming in to copy & paste from our posts, your wrong.

I had a reporter tell me flat out that she loves taking statements and photos from forums like these because people are so honest when they are protected by the vail of anonymity, or so they think.
Just my

Thanks Speck.

 

[tony270]

We as hunters and outdoorsmen need to stick together as much as possible. And when we do need to check someone, say it in a PM, not in an open public forum. The way a hunter legally takes game should not be criticized on an open forum. That goes against all we are trying to do, which is to promote hunting so that our sport will stay alive.

Hey, if we let this type of stuff go on, all an anti will have to do is just join the forum, and then start the fire by starting controversial threads. This type of posting turns hunters against hunters, and that’s not good for the sport.

 

[fpscabs]

Hey, come on now. I didn't even get us sideways at Tejon this year.


That might be because he wasn't driving the whole time

Speck nice post and one point should be stressed very hard.

What may be allowed or permitted by one Warden, Peace Officer, Ranger or other person who can cite you may not be allowed by another such person. As one post pointed out that the citation will lead to a formal discourse with a Judge. Each person who can issue that nasty paper at that particular time feels YOU violated one rule or another! End Of Story

Hell, you may have just pissed him or her off, but you now have a bell rung that will take time to unring. Hopefully, that sounds wanes into thin air, but, as too many find out [look at the legal paypal JHOers], that sound awakes many others that now need to address the contents of that violation. In the balance of the legal system hangs your hunting or fishing freedom.

As someone else used the image of 'black and white' situations, remember what may seem black and white to you or me may be gray to another in the position of writing you or me up, causing us to hear that nasty ringing. It may be better to hang on the side of being too ethical, than having some person see your black as white or white as black

No bells, no bells, no bells

 

[Arise_Kill_Eat_Acts10:13]

Great post Speck!!!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

The second most significant threat to our sport (after anti-hunter efforts) is the decline in the number of hunters. We need to build the community, not tear it down. There is strength in numbers, and we are going to need all the strength we can muster if we want to keep the hunting and fishing traditions alive in this country.[/b]

One of my great friends and mentor often says “Hunting is a dying fraternity”

 

[PIGIG]

Originally posted by Backcountry+Jun 23 2004, 10:21 AM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Backcountry @ Jun 23 2004, 10:21 AM)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-bayedsolid

@ Jun 23 2004, 10:45 AM
and, well...... the anonymity doesn't hurt either. 

I think one of the many good things about getting to know some of the JHO crew "face-to-face" is losing your anonymity. Heck, when I screw up now I know I might have to answer to campcook50, BDB, in2blacktail, SierraExplorer, PIGIG, Mel_Carter, Kentuck, BOWUNTR, or ManFreddy... some I've met only once, some I see often and have become good friends with, but all are guys I respect and wouldn't want to disappoint (or piss off).

Not to segue to far from the original intent of Speckmisser's post, but I'd venture a guess that it helps some guys think twice before hitting the "add reply" button once they've met a few of their fellow JHO'ers.

Backcountry [/b]

Hey spec great post as always, i have seen so much bashing on some people's posts i refuse to to post any words at all, being affraid of sucked into the debate

 

[BDB]

Hey Pigig:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Hey spec great post as always, i have seen so much bashing on some people's posts i refuse to to post any words at all, being affraid of sucked into the debate[/b]

That's not like you to hold your tongue

 

[bighorn67]

The greatest thing about this board is the opportunity to organize hunts and fishing trips and meet face to face. I have met a lot of people through these trips and liked every one of them. The coolest thing is that as obvious as it is that I am a relatively new hunter, it hasn't had an effect on how anyone has treated me that I can tell. It is environments like this one that will encourage new hunters for a long time. I think we all know that we are in this for the same reason............because we love it. I think we'll keep it that way.

Dave

 

[PIGIG]

Originally posted by BDB@Jul 6 2004, 03:38 PM
That's not like you to hold your tongue 

 

 

one thing i am slowly learning is when effort is being wasted i dont think we need to fuel any fires that are already wild. the only thing i di know is this site and the new and old hunter have taught be alot in the last nine months. i also think nomatter how much you know there is always someone that can teach you more