Dogs or Bow?

[boarhunter67]

I have a dilemma. A friend of mine guides and said he can get me on a ranch about an hour north of Colinga where the top two pigs in CA were taken. It's a 6500 acre ranch and most of the pigs are in thick brush so most of the hunting is done with dogs. There are a couple of water holes where I could try to get one with a bow. It's $550 which is more than I usually pay, but a couple of his clients brought me skulls to bug and both had teeth that measured in the double digits. My question is this: I've hunted bear and cats with dogs and it was fun. I've hunted some with my bow, but never killed a pig with it. Should I try with my bow, or go for the dogs? The dog hunt has a much higher success rate, but if I don't get a shot with either, I just pay him gas money and not the full amount. Those of you who have done both, on which did you have more fun?

 

[bighorn67]

Go for both if you can. If it was just one day it would be a tough choice, but I'd probably stick with the bow. If those boar are as big as you think they are you need to make a perfect shot, or they won't go down.

Dave

 

[One Track]

I would probalby try the bow in the mornings and evenings, and hunt over the dogs in between. If that's an option.

 

[EvBouret]

I'd have to agree with One track...hunt the morning with your bow and then during the day when the hogs are all bedded grab the hounds to bay a few. Chances are you'll probably get one with the dogs...but if you don't hunt right before dark again with your bow

If you've never hunted hogs with dogs you definetly have to give it a shot. Theres no rush like getting to the hog and seeing dogs grabbing and baying it. Lots of times the hogs will be throwing dogs like rag dolls. Careful shooting, remember there could be a dog on the other side of the hog. Bring a handgun, and pop em good....

HAVE FUn!!!

 

[Speckmisser]

I'm gonna throw this in just for the mix. Please note that this is my personal opinion, and doesn't reflect on anyone who disagrees with it... we all hunt for individual experience, and if it's legal and ethical, I say, "whatever works for you."

Your best odds of success are with the dogs. However, that kind of hunt is not for everyone. From my perspective (and I know this doesn't jibe with some of the houndsmen on this forum... but only I can see from my eyes), if you hunt with dogs, it's the dogs who are doing the hunting. You're only there to finish the game. I don't find that very satisfying.

True, there can be a lot of excitement in the hunt with dogs, and things might even get a little hairy. If that's what you want, then maybe it's for you. It sounds like you've done it before with cats and bears, so if you liked that you'll probably like chasing hogs.

Personally, I would think you'll get a lot more value for your $550 if you take a hog with the bow.

 

[hatchet]

shove that shaft of aluminum thru that hogs heart when the dogs have him bayed up , problem solved bro!!!

 

[RIFLEMAN]

Speck,

As I understand it, this would be a guided hunt, not a self-guided effort.

As such, it begs the question I'd like you to answer for me...

What is the difference between a guide affording you an opportunity for a shot with a bow, and one or more dogs affording you a shot?

 

[boarhunter67]

In one case, a person is set up at a stand hoping pigs come by so he can get a shot. In the other, a person starts hunting when he hears the pig is bayed and KNOWS he will pretty much get a guaranteed shot when he gets there.

 

[Speckmisser]

Josh, don't hijack the thread. Go back and read the question.
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Those of you who have done both, on which did you have more fun?[/b]

Answer it if you will.

If you won't or can't differentiate between using dogs and using a guide, then that's fine by me. I DO differentiate, however; and I find that using a bow and some stealth much more fun and satisfying than using dogs. It's not a point of debate, and it's not a judgement on what other people find enjoyable. It's just my answer to Boarhunter67's question.

 

[RIFLEMAN]

boarhunter67,
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In one case, a person is set up at a stand hoping pigs come by so he can get a shot. In the other, a person starts hunting when he hears the pig is bayed and KNOWS he will pretty much get a guaranteed shot when he gets there.[/b]

I am familiar with the physical distinctions between the methods; my question pertained to the philosophical differences.

In both cases, the hunter is relying upon another source to maximize the likelihood of a shot. The guide provides insight and superior ability (knowledge of game and its behavior within the habitat) to place the hunter in a good area or on a good stand so as to increase the hunter's chances. The better the guide, the more likely the hunter will get a shot. Likewise, the dog provides a superior ability to achieve the same goal. The better the dog, the more likely the shot.

So if I understand you correctly, a person is not hunting until the hog is bayed? How then do you describe-or what do you call-the process of looking for the scent of a hog to bay?

It amazes me how much you guys like to trivialize the other methods, but simplify hunting with dogs.

 

[boarhunter67]

Rifleman, I didn't mean to say a person wasn't hunting until a hog was bayed by dogs. Sorry if it came across that way. As it stands, I has hoped to go a week ago, but had to back out. I'll go soon and post some pictures. I've decided to use the dogs for the first time and next time I'll try something else. I'll post when I want to go and if anyone wants to go with me, they can let me know. It should be good.

 

[RIFLEMAN]

Phil,
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Josh, don't hijack the thread. Go back and read the question.[/b]

I read the question and am not trying to hijack the thread nor give a lecture on which method boarhunter67 should choose; that is why I did not answer it in the first place. Your original comments just begged for a response, and that is why I think you went to such great lengths to qualify them.
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If you won't or can't differentiate between using dogs and using a guide, then that's fine by me.[/b]

As I indicated in my comments to boarhunter67, I most certainly recognize the methodological differences. I would like you to find as many philosophical distinctions betweent the two methods as you seem to find in the merits of the methods. I find it somewhat odd and intellectually dishonest that you so readily condemn hunting with dogs as not really hunting, but you do not see hunting with a guide in a similiar fashion.
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...I find that using a bow and some stealth much more fun and satisfying than using dogs.[/b]

If your original response would have been limited to something similiar to this statement, you would not have heard a peep out of me. You may think that I am zealously trying to "convert" all of you like some houndhunting missionary, but nothing is further from the truth. Hunting hogs by spot and stalk is not for me, just as using dogs is not for you. I am content to leave it at that. Why weren't you?
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It's not a point of debate, and it's not a judgement on what other people find enjoyable.[/b]

I beg to differ, sir. Your assertion that the dogs are doing all the hunting and that the hunter is there only to finish the game is most certainly debatable. As such, you do in fact judge me and relegate me not as a hunter, but as an executioner.

I don't care what the original topic was; if you think you can make such a statement without getting a response from me, you are sadly mistaken.

 

[RIFLEMAN]

boarhunter67,
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I didn't mean to say a person wasn't hunting until a hog was bayed by dogs. Sorry if it came across that way.[/b]

No problem, boarhunter, and thanks for the clarification.
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As it stands, I has hoped to go a week ago, but had to back out....I've decided to use the dogs for the first time and next time I'll try something else...It should be good.[/b]

I wish you the best of luck no matter what method you choose. My personal opinion on the subject is that you will find that the excitement of hunting hogs with dogs has no equal, but that you may likely find spot and stalking with a guide more personally rewarding. The sense of satisfaction when hunting with dogs comes naturally when you have raised and trained the dogs yourself, but is harder to find when hunting with dogs owned by someone else.

I think that using a guide that will use either method according to your preference is the best bet for you. Between the two methods, I think that you will find all that you are looking for.

Good luck.

 

[Orso]

Bahhh Humbug Rifleman... Dude you can kill a thread like no other.

Quote "Your original comments just begged for a response, and that is why I think you went to such great lengths to qualify them. "

Rifleman, I disagree. I think Spec went way out of his way not to start any kind of debate (and in my opinion, a debate with you). The original question was very honest and straight forward asking for peoples opinions on which they liked the most. Why couldn't you have just said you like hunting with dogs best and you would highly reccommend it?

What happened to the moderators on JHO? It's like they don't even exist anymore. I remember back a couple of years ago when I first joined JHP and I replied to a post. As my comments might have been slightly (and I repeat slightly) off topic, you Rifleman, were the first one to (in a nice way) lay in to me about how Jesse doesn't like people getting off topic. Those days are long gone I guess (and I cross the line just like many others do when it comes to hijacking). I appreciate you and what you have to say here but MAN, you sure can go off the deep end at times (just my opinion, just like many would tell me I'm way off base for posting this now).

I'd almost be afraid (for lack of a better term) to go huntin' with you and your dogs (I would hope one day I could as I am sure you dogs are top notch, and I mean that honestly) by chance I didn't do something correctly. I'd hate for you to berate me while out in the field becuase I chose not to do something you didn't agree with (keeping everything legal of course).

Our dear friend Dolly (Bigtuskers dog) and Spark and Trixy have been the extent of my hog huntin' with dogs and I mean to tell you there is nothing like it. What a rush!! Whewwww!! But come on, we are all here for basically the same excitement, spiritual awakening, and sometimes killin'... We all just do it a little different.

Kooom baaaa yaaaahhhh, my friend, Kooom baaa yaaaahhhh.

I just want to get out and hunt!! This place just keeps me pumping until I get another chance... Oh and I have made some pretty good friends here....


BTW - anyone ever want to take me out coon huntin' with dogs...I'm there, and paying for gas.

 

[Speckmisser]

Josh, is school out? Are you bored?

And as far as asking me to justify, philosophically or otherwise, which method I find most fun... to what end?

I don't care if you like dog hunting better. I like bowhunting better. It's not an overarching judgement on either method. It's a personal preference.

I also like my steak grilled rare, and prefer Wild Turkey to Jack Daniels. Why not debate the philosophical minutiae on those statements while we're at it?

There was once a time when I enjoyed sparring with you, but this is just sad.

If you want to discuss the "philosophical" difference between hunting with a guide and hunting with dogs, then start a thread to do so. But what you're doing right here is called "hijacking", and you've already managed to derail the purpose of boarhunter's original question.

I've spoken to what was asked here, I'm done.

Boarhunter67, my apologies for dredging up this troll.

 

[RIFLEMAN]

Orso,
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Bahhh Humbug Rifleman... Dude you can kill a thread like no other.[/b]

Aw come on. I'm not that bad.
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I think Spec went way out of his way not to start any kind of debate (and in my opinion, a debate with you).[/b]

He may have not been out looking for a debate, but he knew that what he said would probably warrant a response from me. I don't expect him to censor his opinion in anticipation of a response from me, but I do expect that he not begrudge me that response.
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Why couldn't you have just said you like hunting with dogs best and you would highly reccommend it?[/b]

I think that it is pretty obvious which method I prefer, so I don't think there would have been much to gain by it. If I was to have orginally given my preference, I could have said that I personally do not like bowhunting because, in my eyes (or some other such "Speck-speak"), bowhunting results in a less humane or instantaneous kill and a higher rate of unrecovered animals. You could have then questioned why I couldn't just reserve my comments to giving my recommendation. But unlike Speck, I am able to indicate my preference without disparaging an alternative method. Why don't you hold Speck to the same standard?
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As my comments might have been slightly (and I repeat slightly) off topic, you Rifleman, were the first one to (in a nice way) lay in to me about how Jesse doesn't like people getting off topic.[/b]

I think you mistake me for someone else. I am not one who takes the Moderator job too seriously or aggressively. In the Moderator forum, I discourage people from moderating with a heavy hand and in the Politics forum, I have defended the opportunity of people with some objectionable or outlandish opinions to post their views (see IBAFoo's threads) when others were calling for the banning of the member. I am the last person to pursue censorship of any kind. I do not recall any pattern of coming down on you for hijacking threads. I do recall, on one occasion, asking you to take the one on one correspondance offline. This was done at the request of Jesse in order to save bandwidth. If I am wrong, then I will gladly take my lumps.
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I appreciate you and what you have to say here but MAN, you sure can go off the deep end at times (just my opinion, just like many would tell me I'm way off base for posting this now).[/b]

How exactly am I going off the deep end? Speck made a statement that in his opinion, the dogs do all the work/hunting, and the person is there only to finish off the game. Is it unreasonable of me to question this line of thinking?
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I'd almost be afraid (for lack of a better term) to go huntin' with you and your dogs by chance I didn't do something correctly...I'd hate for you to berate me while out in the field becuase I chose not to do something you didn't agree with (keeping everything legal of course).[/b]

While I personally think your fears are unfounded, you would have to ask boarrunner, whoadog, raptor, wildlifedesigner, and pnscm if hunting with me is as scary a proposition as you may think it is. Seeing as they are among my closest hunting buddies, I am inclined to think that they do not think I am as big a monster as you may think me to be.
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But come on, we are all here for basically the same excitement, spiritual awakening, and sometimes killin'... We all just do it a little different.[/b]

I know that, and that is why you'll notice that I did not condemn bowhunting. Please re-read my comments and you'll see that it was Speck, not me, who disparaged the other's method.

As a side note, please do not take any of my comments as emotional rants or the result of my being offended. I have a very thick skin and do not let the opinions of others bother me. I enjoy debate and pursue discussion when someone makes a statement I believe to be wrong. Having to defend the sporting merits of houndhunting is unfortunately nothing new to me, and I learned long ago that it is futile to be bothered by the opinions of those who advocate making it illegal, or think it less sporting or less ethical. I realize that I am not likely to ever convince anybody of anything, but I try nonetheless. I am ignorant and idealistic enough to fight the battles that I believe are just rather than fighting only the battles I can win.
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BTW - anyone ever want to take me out coon huntin' with dogs...I'm there, and paying for gas.[/b]

I mean this with all sincerity: You are more than welcome to come coonhunt with me. I'd be glad to have you. I don't have very good coonhunting spots, but I have access to country that has a coon or two.

 

[RIFLEMAN]

Phil,
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...is school out? Are you bored?[/b]

I am never too busy with my graduate work nor preoccupied with other activities to respond to statements condemning or questioning the merits of houndhunting--surely you know that by now.
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And as far as asking me to justify, philosophically or otherwise, which method I find most fun... to what end?[/b]

I did not ask for a philosophical justification for your preferred method. Who am I to demand or ask you to justify your personal preferences! I asked you to point out the philosophical distinctions between the method you prefer and the method you condemn. To be more specific, the intent of my original comments was to ask you to justify your condemnation of hound hunting. You may not have intended to condemn hunting hogs with dogs, but did so when you relegated me to the role of executioner.
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I don't care if you like dog hunting better. I like bowhunting better. It's not an overarching judgement on either method. It's a personal preference.[/b]

I would not presume to question or judge your personal preference. It is a personal decision that each of us make according to whatever qualities or conditions appeal to us. As I stated to you, my response was focused on your assertion that the dogs do all the hunting and the "person"-you seem to not recognize the word "hunter" as it applies to the person using the dogs-is there only to finish off the game. That is a sure and certain judgement.
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But what you're doing right here is called "hijacking", and you've already managed to derail the purpose of boarhunter's original question.[/b]

Boarhunter67 asked for preferences between the two methods. This discussion focuses on our preferred method (and in your case, the reasons why we do not engage in the alternative), so I am not sure how further discovery into the differences between the two methods is somehow counterproductive to the original question. Might it start another marathon thread? Only if you want it to. I will cease and desist if boarhunter67 wants me to, but do not think for a second that your statements would not be refuted. I will call you on them every time.
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I've spoken to what was asked here, I'm done.[/b]

No, you didn't. However, I'll understand if you do not respond to me.
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Boarhunter67, my apologies for dredging up this troll.[/b]

So I am a troll now, huh?

 

[ooja]

Oh Puleeease! Not again....

 

[Orso]

OOJA,

I'm with you man. I know speck, and he is good people and I've read enough of Riflemans posts to know that he has hunting in the fore-front of his mindset as well... BUT, I don't know how many more of these I can take... Sometimes I wish we had the PM (private message) function back just so my fellow compatriates (spelling, meaning???) can go to town on each other.

Don't worry be happy, It Friday.

 

[Whoadog]

Being a friend of Josh's, I met him on this forum, I can attest his biggest fault is he is very stubborn about his opinions, everybody knows you shouldn't have opinions that insult the almighty JHO Pro Staff member Speckmisser.

Brian