Don't even look at deer if you see one!!!!!!

[Cal Kellogg]

I wonder if the guy in question would have received a citation if he had paid that extra five dollars to support the DFG and had placed the "DFG support" sticker you are given on his window.....

 

[tony270]

I’ve been in the company of scrupulous hunters. I’ve also hunted coon and predators at night. That’s where I learned what to do with a spotlight, and what not to do with one, that’s well known in the south. I believe the friend was naive to the fact. But like we all should know, game wardens accept the job so that they can protect animals, so busting people is their business. When they bust someone it’s entirely up to the District Attorney to decipher the evidence, and if applicable press charges.
Some LEO’s brag about how many law offenders they bust. It’s a badge of honor. Even to the point that they may receive monetary job performance awards, awards based wholly or partly how many citations or bust they write or make that ultimately result in a conviction.
Not to thread jack but I think this makes a point;
I was fishing in Clear Lake on privately owned property back in 1980, a little area called Lucerne. The spot that I was fishing in is out of sight to the public. As I was kicking back I see a man walking towards me. As soon as we made eye contact the man dressed in civilian clothes reached behind his back and when his hands came back into view he had his CDFG ball cap. He put the cap on as he walked towards me.
We chatted for at least 20 minutes and it was a very pleasant conversation. After all the chitchatting I guess it was time for him to leave. As he turned away to leave, he stopped, turned around and said, “Hey, do you mind if I see your fishing license”. I showed him my license and he went on his way.
From that point on I’ve had nothing much to say when a game warden shows up. When one shows up the first thing I do is present him with the appropriate documentation that proves I’m in compliance.
All of us should tell ourselves that anytime a LEO talks to you while on duty (and maybe not) he’s gathering information to see if any laws or regulations have been violated. He’s not there to be your buddy. If he so desires he actually has the authority to issue a warning, that’s as long as one hasn’t committed a felony in his presents.
The best thing to do is be polite and cordial, read the regulations over and over, and then again, and have them immediately available. If you have a family member that is a LEO it won’t be a bad thing to have a photo and show it when you retrieve your license, sometimes that works.

HH and Be Safe Out There...

 

[rcrosby]

Some of you guys that are trying to make the point of talking to a warden and getting out of an issue like this need to get some legal advice from a qualified attorney.

What it comes down to specifically in California is Fish and Game wardens as a whole are out to cite hunters and fisherman for whatever they can. I have personally seen them lie even to a district attorney. They treat everyone as if they are guilty for being in the field.

Your best defense to these aggresive tactics is to know that Fish and Game have no more power than anyother law-enforcement officer. They are restrained by the constitution and you should never ever talk to any law-enforcement officer in that type of situation.

Here is a post I made a long-time ago on jesses about this. http://www.jesseshunting.com/forums...66-4th-amendment-protections-while-field.html

Here is a official DFG document issued by the Fish and Game that probably cost you as a tax payer a multi-million dollar legal bill. 4th Amendment Outline

I make it a point to know the supreme law of the land, the United States Constitution. I don't cooperate with any of these sting operations, checkpoints, road blocks, illegal searches at refuges etc. If I happen upon any of them my cell phone records anything the officer says and I refuse to answer any questions. Always!

Not trying to be a prick but the last time I played nice guy it took 2 court dates to prove the fish and game officer was a liar and a scumbag.

 

[BigSurArcher]

I got warned in MO one time for shining. It was a real deer in a cornfield and we backed up and hit it with the headlights just to take a second look. Warden who just happened to be coming the other way warned us not to do it again and let us off with a warning.

Typical CA vs. The Rest of the World story.

What gets you a warning in other states WILL get you a ticket in CA!

 

[ZEKEDAWG]

I have had my truck turned upside down by a known richard kranium of a DFG guy, he was in plain clothes and with a buddy. he fumbled through my truck looking for anything illegal. searched high and low. nothing. all docs in order, only archery equipment and the mickies big mouth in the back was all mine and not my kid brother(12-13 years old)s and I wasn't drunk. He was pissed. to bad the douch missed the big bag of weed in the glove box. so worried about what I was doing.

be legal and know the laws, it helps.

I know now not to shine lights on animals, purposely, if I have a weapon on me.

 

[Ism415]

Rc thanks so much that post. When I get home and am no longer readin this from my phone I will check out the links you posted.
Again thanks!!!

 

[m57jager]

I know now not to shine lights on animals, purposely, if I have a weapon on me.

I totally agree. Now if I can only keep from diverting my headlights.

 

[radio2]

Oh, ok. So you must have been the warden or the guy who it happened to to know this. I think not. Let me tell you, it doesn't work that way here. Our local warden doesn't care about intent of the law. She cares about how many people she can get something on. It's a personality and power thing locally. Those that live around here know what I'm talking about.

I know one like that.

 

[PCguy760]

geez , i saw a buck along the road in palomar last friday nite like 11pm, i saw it moving, i stopped and put the flashlight on it for 5 secs then drove off

I had unloaded rifle and pistol in the back of the suv

thats illegal ?

 

[tony270]

IMHO spotlighting deer at night is nothing new and issuing citations to citizens who initially after spotting a deer (in say the lights of a vehicle) and then going back to spot the deer a second time isn’t either. Taking a second look, with a weapon capable of taking a deer in general access is when the violation occurred.
If the game warden allows a person to leave just to see if a weapon is retrieve, he won’t have many cases. Now on the other hand if he stops you before you leave, or if he allows you to leave and never witnesses an attempt to retrieve a weapon, but he stops you before you get too far he can make a case.
Why you say? Because that way he can always say that he never had time to figure out your true intentions. And as far as he's concerned you spotted him and then you decided not to retrieve the weapon.
That how cops work.

 

[eganfan]

I've shined a flashlight out the window when driving unfamiliar canyon roads at night just to see where the edge of the road is. I guess that makes me a poacher?

 

[tony270]

I've shined a flashlight out the window when driving unfamiliar canyon roads at night just to see where the edge of the road is. I guess that makes me a poacher?

No. But if after you first saw a deer and you had a weapon capable of killing one you checked if out for a second time you could be cited. That's simple, and has been around for ages..

 

[Cal Kellogg]

"No. But if after you first saw a deer and you had a weapon capable of killing one you checked if out for a second time you could be cited. That's simple, and has been around for ages.."

According to the regs, which seem to be designed to nab poachers and non poachers alike....You're off the mark....

Read the quote below that I cut and pasted from the regulations posted above….

"It is unlawful for any person, or one or more persons, to throw or cast the rays of any spotlight, headlight, or other artificial light on any highway or in any field, woodland, or forest where game mammals, fur-bearing mammals, or nongame mammals are commonly found... while having in his or her possession or under his or her control any firearm or weapon with which that mammal could be killed...."

The animals don't even need to be present...it only needs to be in an area where they may be found....Crazy, but that's what the reg says....

 

[Sodhunter]

I reckon, course Big Brother may be watching us right now. Who knows? We may all get a citiation in our mailbox for discussing this issue!

Pretty sure we can not get a ticket for things we say on a forum! They can investigate and look for evidence though. If shining lights on animals you have no intention of shooting makes you a poacher, I am a poacher!

 

[tony270]

"No. But if after you first saw a deer and you had a weapon capable of killing one you checked if out for a second time you could be cited. That's simple, and has been around for ages.."

According to the regs, which seem to be designed to nab poachers and non poachers alike....You're off the mark....

Read the quote below that I cut and pasted from the regulations posted above….

"It is unlawful for any person, or one or more persons, to throw or cast the rays of any spotlight, headlight, or other artificial light on any highway or in any field, woodland, or forest where game mammals, fur-bearing mammals, or nongame mammals are commonly found... while having in his or her possession or under his or her control any firearm or weapon with which that mammal could be killed...."

The animals don't even need to be present...it only needs to be in an area where they may be found....Crazy, but that's what the reg says....

Hey Cal Kellogg, I don’t think you understand the code. If you study FGC 2005 (a), it clearly states that this regulation only applies to citizens that use lights to ASSIST in the taking of so and so game… If you don’t meet the requirements of FGC 2005 (a,) then (b), (c), etc does not apply. You only posted part of FCG 2005 (b).
If you would like I’ll post FGC 2005 and point it out, or are you okay?

 

[m57jager]

Perfect, then he is off the hook because he wasn't using the light to assist in taking game. He was admiring a nice buck with no intentions as he was just on his way to bear camp and catch some zzzzzz before chasing some bear in the morning. I've been hound hunting with buddies who own hounds for 12 years and I make a good effort to get out as much as possible. How many bucks have we shot while bear hunting?.... ZERO Seen em, but we are bear hunting and a deer would interfere with that. The bitch I raised was not to prove innocence. It's the same one that 90% on here have. Most of the law enforcement of DFG has changed from supportive of hunters and fisherman to if you're in the woods with a gun during hunting season then you're a poacher until proven a hunter. Stories of tossing law abiding citizens cars and finding nothing proves it! It's disgusting! Now that the economy is in a downward spiral everyone is trying to create new revenue and it sucks. How many people do you know that want to move out of CA. I bet more than you think. Go out state and experience how a bunch of screwed up a$$%#&@s we really are. It's sad.

 

[tony270]

Hopefully what I write will help the friend with his case, but the main thing is to get an Attorney, preferably one familiar the area, one who knows the other side, and one who know CDFG case law.
Now, with me being the devil’s advocate, and only drawing my words from my age and experience. So with no legal experience or legal training whatsoever I believe the issue with a case like this would be the following;
#1) if he was in an area that the General Deer season was open he violated.
#2) if he used a hand-held flashlight no larger than two-cell/3 volts, and or he used a lantern that did not case a directional beam he would not be in violation (this could be an out too, but that depends on what kind of light he used).
#3) he had a weapon at his general disposable (this, in my opinion, may be his way out).
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o> PS</o>
<o></o>As for the California part, you can't run from it, it’s like this all over, just different laws.

 

[Cal Kellogg]

"Hey Cal Kellogg, I don’t think you understand the code. If you study FGC 2005 (a), it clearly states that this regulation only applies to citizens that use lights to ASSIST in the taking of so and so game… If you don’t meet the requirements of FGC 2005 (a,) then (b), (c), etc does not apply. You only posted part of FCG 2005 (b).
If you would like I’ll post FGC 2005 and point it out, or are you okay?"

I went back and read the section on use of lights and I'm still understanding it the same way....So are you saying if I'm not hunting game with lights that I can go out with a rifle in my truck and spotlight deer as long as I don't shoot them....?

That doesn't sound right to me...I think the reg means what it says, namely that if you have a gun or bow you can be written up for merely shining a light in an area where there may be game.....

There was not game present in the case of the guy got a ticket and he apparently wasn't engaged in any sort of hunting that makes use of a light, so why do you think he got a citation...?

 

[tony270]

"Hey Cal Kellogg, I don’t think you understand the code. If you study FGC 2005 (a), it clearly states that this regulation only applies to citizens that use lights to ASSIST in the taking of so and so game… If you don’t meet the requirements of FGC 2005 (a,) then (b), (c), etc does not apply. You only posted part of FCG 2005 (b).
If you would like I’ll post FGC 2005 and point it out, or are you okay?"

I went back and read the section on use of lights and I'm still understanding it the same way....So are you saying if I'm not hunting game with lights that I can go out with a rifle in my truck and spotlight deer as long as I don't shoot them....?

That doesn't sound right to me...I think the reg means what it says, namely that if you have a gun or bow you can be written up for merely shining a light in an area where there may be game.....

There was not game present in the case of the guy got a ticket and he apparently wasn't engaged in any sort of hunting that makes use of a light, so why do you think he got a citation...?

Hi Cal Kellogg.
I'm saying that as long as you are hunting non-game animals i.e., coyotes, bobcats, raccoons, etc, you can have a legal weapon capable of taking any game as long as you are not conducting this action during the General Deer Season.
In the said case the game does not have to be present, basically, the game only has to have the possibility of being in the area.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o></o>
You might be getting confused with non-game and game animal, and doing this during the general deer season, get in now?<o></o>

 

[tony270]

Let me make this a part clearer.
Game does not have to be present because this action was conducted during the GENERAL DEER SEASON, the game only has to have the possibility of being in the area.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<img src=" /><o></o>