I"m new to Elk hunting (calling). I've watched some videos and read a few articles and there seems to be the same underlying thought that a cow call is the safest bet as a "Bugle" might scare off the subordinate Bulls. Any Advise?
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Swift Shot
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When they bust move move move. They make a lot of noise and the little bit you make will not effect them at all. Scent control and no none natural noises are all you need to worry about. Cow call is the best for bringing them in however a bugle in a unpressured area to locate works fine. I have found calf calling works the youngins will come to cause mama to come to . Where mama goes daddy goes. Only problem lots of eyes looking at you.
You can get the sadilite bulls to come to a bugle but if you are to far away a herd bull will gather his girls and move out. You can cow call to cover your noise, and to get bulls that hang up out of range to come in to check things out. The only time I have called a herd bull in is when I was very close to him when I bugled and he felt he had no choice but to fight.
A bugle is great to locate the bulls, and if they start to come to your bugle I would keep it up until the get in close. I have bugled smaller bulls in without ever getting my cow call out. When you set up and bugle or cow call make sure to look all around not just where you think they will come from. They can come in pretty quite when they want and the next thing you know is you look up and there is one looking right at you.
Each situation is a little different, as is each animal. When they are at the peak of the rut you can get away with a lot of mistakes. But when they are not into it heavy it can be much harder.
Good luck and have fun. It is the most exciting hunting you can do when they are in the peak of the rut.
RWCHUNTER
A bugle is great to locate the bulls, and if they start to come to your bugle I would keep it up until the get in close. I have bugled smaller bulls in without ever getting my cow call out. When you set up and bugle or cow call make sure to look all around not just where you think they will come from. They can come in pretty quite when they want and the next thing you know is you look up and there is one looking right at you.
Each situation is a little different, as is each animal. When they are at the peak of the rut you can get away with a lot of mistakes. But when they are not into it heavy it can be much harder.
Good luck and have fun. It is the most exciting hunting you can do when they are in the peak of the rut.
RWCHUNTER
Craig Steele
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No two people call the same! Calling the big boys in is not easy & is not done to often with either a cow call or bugle! 9/10 herd bulls will pick up their cows & run no matter what sound you make.
Bugles can be used to effectivly call in a Herd bull if used at the right time, just like cow calls can. We can only speculate on what the bull is thinking and hope what we give him is what he wants! Just because you bugle on top of him does not mean he will come to fight and the same goes for cow calling. Just because you cow call does not mean he will come running.
Herd bulls like to keep what they got but not all of the BIG BOYS are herd bulls! But if you are hunting a heard bull I would suggest using a caller several yards back and have them make any noise that will make the big guy bugle so that you can pin point his location. Let your caller float back as far as he needs too! Just keep the bull bugling so that you might have a chance to slip up on him! You have to be very carefull because you are moving to him instead of vis versu!
The main thing is to just get out there and mix it up a little. Over time you will make your own opinions on what works best for you. Who knows what you might come up with!
Thanks,
Craig Steele
craig@callemin.com
Bugles can be used to effectivly call in a Herd bull if used at the right time, just like cow calls can. We can only speculate on what the bull is thinking and hope what we give him is what he wants! Just because you bugle on top of him does not mean he will come to fight and the same goes for cow calling. Just because you cow call does not mean he will come running.
Herd bulls like to keep what they got but not all of the BIG BOYS are herd bulls! But if you are hunting a heard bull I would suggest using a caller several yards back and have them make any noise that will make the big guy bugle so that you can pin point his location. Let your caller float back as far as he needs too! Just keep the bull bugling so that you might have a chance to slip up on him! You have to be very carefull because you are moving to him instead of vis versu!
The main thing is to just get out there and mix it up a little. Over time you will make your own opinions on what works best for you. Who knows what you might come up with!
Thanks,
Craig Steele
craig@callemin.com
if your well camoed and watch the wind , you can get the younger bulls and cows to move into reasonable ranges sometimes with even flat out terriable calling skill, my partner got a small bull that came right in to him on opening day of archery season in colorado one year with a diaphram call that sounded like he was squeezeing mutipule angry cats thru a meat grinder while blowing a whissle, yet the 4 point bull came into 30 yards (probably out of sympathy and curiosity over the obvious extreme pain level some other ELK was in!)
cow calls used carefully and skillfully sometimes allow you to get into the edge of the herd without the outer guard cows raiseing their alarm. but your best results will normally be by placeing yourself in the path of the grazing herd as it moves or by working with at least one partner working on the same herd from a differant dirrection and by placeing yourself well hidden in the main excape route when they spook as your partner works into the herd for a shot! that way your both likey to cause elk to run past the other hunter when the $%*^ hits the fan as it sometimes does
cow calls used carefully and skillfully sometimes allow you to get into the edge of the herd without the outer guard cows raiseing their alarm. but your best results will normally be by placeing yourself in the path of the grazing herd as it moves or by working with at least one partner working on the same herd from a differant dirrection and by placeing yourself well hidden in the main excape route when they spook as your partner works into the herd for a shot! that way your both likey to cause elk to run past the other hunter when the $%*^ hits the fan as it sometimes does
One good method is to start as early as you can before the big bulls have their harems gathered.
The first week of the season you can cow call and calf call from a fixed location in a good area that shows sign. Much of the actual breeding occurs the second into the third week of September here in Idaho so this is when they are actively gathering cows.
Try to sound like a small herd of cows and calves, blow a few different sounding cow calls. Bust some sticks pound the ground a little.
Give it 1/2 hour then move to another likely location. The big bulls will more often than not come in silently to this tactic early in the season. After 1/2 hour move your "herd" to another location continue your calling as you move and mix in some high pitched short bugles, you may get a bull to answer while you are moving to another spot.
Another good trick early is to sit on an active wallow mid day.
The first week of the season you can cow call and calf call from a fixed location in a good area that shows sign. Much of the actual breeding occurs the second into the third week of September here in Idaho so this is when they are actively gathering cows.
Try to sound like a small herd of cows and calves, blow a few different sounding cow calls. Bust some sticks pound the ground a little.
Give it 1/2 hour then move to another likely location. The big bulls will more often than not come in silently to this tactic early in the season. After 1/2 hour move your "herd" to another location continue your calling as you move and mix in some high pitched short bugles, you may get a bull to answer while you are moving to another spot.
Another good trick early is to sit on an active wallow mid day.
BlackTimber
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If you want to learn how to call to elk I strongly suggest visiting www.elknut.com I have two of his videos. The most informitive video for me is Vol. I Bugeling bulls & beyond. There is so much info packed into this video it's amazing. There is a lot of stuff in there that most hunters (myself included) don't know or realize until he spells it out for ya.
Anyway check it out.
Anyway check it out.
wingbone_2003
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surveyor,i personally suggest the hoochie mama cow call it helped me stick my first 5x6 bull,and let me tell you he came screaming in,good luck!!!!
hunthog
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Contrary to what you see in the hunting videos, it's always a bad idea to walk down a road or stand in the open and bugle or cow call. While watching the Primos Truth Series I had to laugh every time I saw them walking roads and open country bugling to locate bulls. I mean, they even say, several times in fact, that "the bull was closer than we thought" or ""he came in faster than we thought he would". They got burned twice in "The Truth 6" alone. There is nothing more unnerving than having a bull come straight in and catch you standing in the sunlight right in the open with your thumb up your butt.
Always get off the road or look around for a good set-up before bugling for a locate or cow calling. I've had too many bulls come-a-running in silence to one bugle. They never said a word but came at a dead run to my call. Best bet.....set-up and nock an arrow before you bugle. Don't be made a fool of by a dumb animal that's looking for sex or a fight. Many bulls come in silent so assume they always will.
WORK WITH A PARTNER. Decide who will set up and who will call. The caller should set up 40-100 yards behind and down wind of the person set up. This will create a greater chance of success than any other tactic.
LEARN TO SOUND FARTHER AWAY THAN YOU ARE. Learn to bugle or cow call softly when a bull gets close and you are alone. Cover your mouth or point your grunt tube behind you and bugle softly away from the bull. Hold your Hoochie Mama behind you if you use one. You can also steer a bull in the direction you want him to walk using your grunt tube by pointing it right or left behind your back to make the bull walk that way. If working with a partner, he should also learn how to use a grunt tube to steer a bull to you.
If you are in fairly open country and are set up in a brush pile or some other cover, stop calling as the bull comes into the opening. He'll hang up if he can't see the Elk that's calling (and he WILL be looking). If you continue to call he'll know something is wrong and leave....quickly. They may be dumb animals but they're not stupid. Even they know a cow or bull Elk can't hide in a patch of weeds.
DO NOT OVER CALL and KEEP YOUR BUGLES SHORT. Watch those hunting bugles carefully again. You'll find that an average Elk bugle from the real animal is only about 3-5 seconds long. Often they bugle starting with the high tone or "scream" and finish with a groan. Most hunters start with a low tone and try to step up to the high tone and back down to the low. That takes about 10-15 seconds and doesn't sound at all like most actual Elk. That will scare off a herd bull or any bull faster than anything. Although it's hard to do, don't answer every bugle a bull sends your way and don't try to sound like a bad-ass. Bugle sparingly and sound like a wimp. A good rule of thumb is to answer every third bugle and mix in a grunt and cow call or two if he is moving toward you. Over calling will lower success faster than any other mistake you may make. I've had bulls finally answer me as long as 10 minutes after an initial locating bugle.
DON'T COPY THE ELK'S CALLS WHEN YOU CALL. I've heard so many hunters copy everything an Elk sends his way. The bull bugles, the hunter bugles, the Elk grunts, he grunts, the Elk screams, he screams, the Elk leaves and the hunter wonders why. Duh! Because he sounded like a fake, that's why. They don't talk so don't try to have a conversation with them.
CHALLANGE AN ELK BY RAKING A TREE WITH A DEAD BRANCH. This is especially effective if the Elk is also raking. I've brought in 2 hung up bulls because I started raking. One 5 point shut up and came at a dead run. Set up near a tree with lots of dead limbs and as he approaches use a dead branch to break away the dead stuff to clear a shooting lane. That kills 2 birds with one stone.
Remember, that bull out there (especially a herd bull) already has his cows. He has no reason to fight. He'll just gather up his harem and leave if he feels threatened. Now, you sound like a lonely, sex starved, love sick cow and just maybe he'll come hither. If you cow call, think sexy. Try and sound sexy.....I'll let you figure out how to do that on your own. I know how but I'd sound like a fool trying to explain it to you.
If you get a bull to answer your locating bugle, try and figure out where he's at, if he's not moving toward you, and move to him before making another sound. If you are making noise on your approach use the the cow call every 5 minutes or so.
WATCH THE WIND. No matter what you wear, what you spray on or how many scent free showers you take, that bull will smell you 300 yards away if the wind is at your back. Scent-lok ain't gonna do it for you and it is a waste of money with the wind at your back. "Just Hunt" and other hype will assure you an unsuccessful hunt. Nothing will hide the smell of the sweat you made while hiking in to the good spots, nothing.
GET AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN AND TRY THE COW CALL FIRST. Remember.....sexy is the word. If that doesn't work make him think that you have stolen one of his cows, if he has any, and get in his face with a short high pitched scream. You want him to want to kick your ass and take that cow back. If he comes he'll come hard and fast. It will be something you will never forget even if the shot is not there. Keep your back to a tree and DON'T MOVE. Most bulls that are that mad will charge anything that moves.
DON'T CALL FROM THE EDGE OF A PARK OR OPEN AREA from the approach side. You know what's behind you but you don't know what's on the other side of the opening. A bull may be 100 yards on the other side of the open area and come-a-runnin' when you call. Then you're stuck because that bull is not going to cross that meadow to come to you unless he sees the bull that was calling him. That would be you and no matter how hard you try you're not going to look like a bull and make him come to you. Cross the open area before you bugle. I've been burned twice like that and finally learned my lesson. It's sooooo tempting to call when you have so much area to look at but don't be the fool I was....twice.... when I was young and foolish.
Last of all IF HUNTING AN AREA OVER AND OVER CHANGE CALLS EVERY DAY. mix up your calls and don't call the same over and over. Believe me, you can't make a bad call out there even if it sounds stupid to you. I've heard Elk out there that sound like the worst caller in the woods. I've heard bulls I named the woo-woo bull or grunted so much and so long I called him the laughing bull. Use a different diaphram or use a different Elk call each time. If you've been burned by an Elk, put the call you were using in your pocket and don't use it in the area for several days. They do forget but it takes a while and they will never work to the same call or tones once they know or suspect it comes from a hunter. Again, they're dumb but not stupid.
Above all, GOOD LUCK,
hunthog
Always get off the road or look around for a good set-up before bugling for a locate or cow calling. I've had too many bulls come-a-running in silence to one bugle. They never said a word but came at a dead run to my call. Best bet.....set-up and nock an arrow before you bugle. Don't be made a fool of by a dumb animal that's looking for sex or a fight. Many bulls come in silent so assume they always will.
WORK WITH A PARTNER. Decide who will set up and who will call. The caller should set up 40-100 yards behind and down wind of the person set up. This will create a greater chance of success than any other tactic.
LEARN TO SOUND FARTHER AWAY THAN YOU ARE. Learn to bugle or cow call softly when a bull gets close and you are alone. Cover your mouth or point your grunt tube behind you and bugle softly away from the bull. Hold your Hoochie Mama behind you if you use one. You can also steer a bull in the direction you want him to walk using your grunt tube by pointing it right or left behind your back to make the bull walk that way. If working with a partner, he should also learn how to use a grunt tube to steer a bull to you.
If you are in fairly open country and are set up in a brush pile or some other cover, stop calling as the bull comes into the opening. He'll hang up if he can't see the Elk that's calling (and he WILL be looking). If you continue to call he'll know something is wrong and leave....quickly. They may be dumb animals but they're not stupid. Even they know a cow or bull Elk can't hide in a patch of weeds.
DO NOT OVER CALL and KEEP YOUR BUGLES SHORT. Watch those hunting bugles carefully again. You'll find that an average Elk bugle from the real animal is only about 3-5 seconds long. Often they bugle starting with the high tone or "scream" and finish with a groan. Most hunters start with a low tone and try to step up to the high tone and back down to the low. That takes about 10-15 seconds and doesn't sound at all like most actual Elk. That will scare off a herd bull or any bull faster than anything. Although it's hard to do, don't answer every bugle a bull sends your way and don't try to sound like a bad-ass. Bugle sparingly and sound like a wimp. A good rule of thumb is to answer every third bugle and mix in a grunt and cow call or two if he is moving toward you. Over calling will lower success faster than any other mistake you may make. I've had bulls finally answer me as long as 10 minutes after an initial locating bugle.
DON'T COPY THE ELK'S CALLS WHEN YOU CALL. I've heard so many hunters copy everything an Elk sends his way. The bull bugles, the hunter bugles, the Elk grunts, he grunts, the Elk screams, he screams, the Elk leaves and the hunter wonders why. Duh! Because he sounded like a fake, that's why. They don't talk so don't try to have a conversation with them.
CHALLANGE AN ELK BY RAKING A TREE WITH A DEAD BRANCH. This is especially effective if the Elk is also raking. I've brought in 2 hung up bulls because I started raking. One 5 point shut up and came at a dead run. Set up near a tree with lots of dead limbs and as he approaches use a dead branch to break away the dead stuff to clear a shooting lane. That kills 2 birds with one stone.
Remember, that bull out there (especially a herd bull) already has his cows. He has no reason to fight. He'll just gather up his harem and leave if he feels threatened. Now, you sound like a lonely, sex starved, love sick cow and just maybe he'll come hither. If you cow call, think sexy. Try and sound sexy.....I'll let you figure out how to do that on your own. I know how but I'd sound like a fool trying to explain it to you.
If you get a bull to answer your locating bugle, try and figure out where he's at, if he's not moving toward you, and move to him before making another sound. If you are making noise on your approach use the the cow call every 5 minutes or so.
WATCH THE WIND. No matter what you wear, what you spray on or how many scent free showers you take, that bull will smell you 300 yards away if the wind is at your back. Scent-lok ain't gonna do it for you and it is a waste of money with the wind at your back. "Just Hunt" and other hype will assure you an unsuccessful hunt. Nothing will hide the smell of the sweat you made while hiking in to the good spots, nothing.
GET AS CLOSE AS YOU CAN AND TRY THE COW CALL FIRST. Remember.....sexy is the word. If that doesn't work make him think that you have stolen one of his cows, if he has any, and get in his face with a short high pitched scream. You want him to want to kick your ass and take that cow back. If he comes he'll come hard and fast. It will be something you will never forget even if the shot is not there. Keep your back to a tree and DON'T MOVE. Most bulls that are that mad will charge anything that moves.
DON'T CALL FROM THE EDGE OF A PARK OR OPEN AREA from the approach side. You know what's behind you but you don't know what's on the other side of the opening. A bull may be 100 yards on the other side of the open area and come-a-runnin' when you call. Then you're stuck because that bull is not going to cross that meadow to come to you unless he sees the bull that was calling him. That would be you and no matter how hard you try you're not going to look like a bull and make him come to you. Cross the open area before you bugle. I've been burned twice like that and finally learned my lesson. It's sooooo tempting to call when you have so much area to look at but don't be the fool I was....twice.... when I was young and foolish.
Last of all IF HUNTING AN AREA OVER AND OVER CHANGE CALLS EVERY DAY. mix up your calls and don't call the same over and over. Believe me, you can't make a bad call out there even if it sounds stupid to you. I've heard Elk out there that sound like the worst caller in the woods. I've heard bulls I named the woo-woo bull or grunted so much and so long I called him the laughing bull. Use a different diaphram or use a different Elk call each time. If you've been burned by an Elk, put the call you were using in your pocket and don't use it in the area for several days. They do forget but it takes a while and they will never work to the same call or tones once they know or suspect it comes from a hunter. Again, they're dumb but not stupid.
Above all, GOOD LUCK,
hunthog
wmidbrook
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As blacktimber said, Elknut.com provides some great materials. I've been bugling and cow callin' to their tapes all summer. They actually put a name to the different calls/techniques I've seen
Wayne Carlton/Jim Zumbo/Schuhs and others successfully use in the videos of theirs that I study.
I also am learning to use some Abe & Son techniques like lip bawlin'--Abe & Son bugles are a lot easier for me to get good bull elk sounds out of than any other calls tried.
Last season (my first bugling season hunt), I got 3 different bulls to respond, but didn't close the deal.....I hope this year will be different. The Elknutt tapes have good info on getting a shot @ those bulls that hung-up out of range--techniques for getting on 'em or bringin' 'em the rest of the way in.
Wayne Carlton/Jim Zumbo/Schuhs and others successfully use in the videos of theirs that I study.
I also am learning to use some Abe & Son techniques like lip bawlin'--Abe & Son bugles are a lot easier for me to get good bull elk sounds out of than any other calls tried.
Last season (my first bugling season hunt), I got 3 different bulls to respond, but didn't close the deal.....I hope this year will be different. The Elknutt tapes have good info on getting a shot @ those bulls that hung-up out of range--techniques for getting on 'em or bringin' 'em the rest of the way in.
shovelerslayer
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Calling Elk is like calling turkeys, at the right time ANY call works. At other times NOTHING works. Learn to read the individual animals response and adapt to them. If you ordered the Elknut.com videos you are a step ahead. Enjoy it, because you are in for one of the most hair raising, heart pounding, frustrating, can't wait to do it again times!!
hunthog
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hunthog
