Florida Men Arrested for Dog vs Hog Fights

[RIFLEMAN]

Fla. Men Arrested for Dog Vs. Hog Fights
Jan 27 10:12 AM US/Eastern


MIAMI

Authorities arrested five men for setting up fights between dogs and wild boars at an Indian reservation in South Florida.

The men, including the founder of a boar-catching dog association, were charged with animal cruelty Thursday after a 14-month investigation into the fights at the Seminole Indian reservation near Okeechobee, authorities said.

Undercover Seminole police attended a fight on Oct. 9, 2004, in the backyard of a Seminole Indian's home, authorities said. Twenty-one dogs and at least 14 wild boars were involved, they said.

Hog-dog fights typically match a pit bull terrier or bulldog against a wild boar in a pen for 60-second bouts.

"It's a little known blood sport that's been around for 25 years," said John Goodwin of The Humane Society.

Among those arrested was Art Parker, of Fort Lawn, S.C., of the International Catchdog Association., which has a Web registry of boar- catching dogs.

Parker remained jailed Friday, according to Mary Luther, who described herself as the owner of the dog-fighting organization. Luther called the arrests "domestic terrorism" and accused authorities of acting at the behest of animal rights activists.

Hog-dog fights are "no more cruel than when I do bird hunting with my dogs," she said in a telephone interview.

 

[ironworker]

Disgusting

 

[MikenSoCo]

Doesn't surprise me. Any comments Rifleman, you're unusually quiet on this one. Are any of our dog people members of this group? I know one bad apple doesn't exemplify the whole group, but hell, he was the founder?

 

[Speckmisser]

This certainly raises more questions than it answers. Were these guys really "sport fighting" their animals, or was this training work? I can't recall, but I think it's TX or Louisiana where they're trying to come down on the trainers who are working their dogs in catch pens.

Whatever the case, sure doesn't make it look good for the houndsmen. Stuff like this makes it easy to see why Rifleman gets so defensive when hound hunting gets challenged. Sorta like the rest of us hunters when we see an article about slob hunters or poachers.

 

[MikenSoCo]

Rifleman, before you reply, my post wasn't a cheap shot at you or hounding, I was curious about the training issue just as Speck just mentioned.... I know you have some enlightening info on this

 

[bayedsolid]

This would be like a bunch of archery hunters getting together and shooting hogs in a pen to see whose bow penetrates better. Just because you are an archery hunter doesn't mean you would get a thrill out of shooting an animal in a small pen. <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

I know one bad apple doesn't exemplify the whole group, but hell, he was the founder[/b]

Yea, founder of a catch dog association. Catch dogs catch....that's what they do by instinct. Proving over and over again that a catch dog will catch is like proving that a boxer will actually punch someone. It's pointless unless you are just getting enjoyment out of watching the punching....or catching, whichever you choose. This has about as much to do with me or any other dog runners as it would any archery hunter if the president of the Arrow Penetration Club was caught sticking hogs in a small pen in the South. No, they are not hurting the hog population and yes, those Southern states are overrun with problem hogs, but no, they don't represent the vast majority of houndsman and the like.
I think posting up and spreading the word about busts like this serve as much purpose as spreading the word about a couple of guys who were shooting animals in a corral for fun. What good does it do? The educated hunter sees the difference but the non-educated, non-hunter, won't take the time to see the difference and just lumps everybody and everything connected with dogs and hogs as bad seeds. Do you as hunters need to see on the 10:00 news that a couple of guys were shooting does and fawns in late May just to watch them flop? It happens, but it certainly doesn't represent hunters as a whole and I don't want to hear it 'cause I know it will just put another black mark on all hunters. They got caught, hopefully will get what's coming to them, and lets move on.

 

[Speckmisser]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

I think posting up and spreading the word about busts like this serve as much purpose as spreading the word about a couple of guys who were shooting animals in a corral for fun. What good does it do? The educated hunter sees the difference but the non-educated, non-hunter, won't take the time to see the difference and just lumps everybody and everything connected with dogs and hogs as bad seeds. Do you as hunters need to see on the 10:00 news that a couple of guys were shooting does and fawns in late May just to watch them flop? It happens, but it certainly doesn't represent hunters as a whole and I don't want to hear it 'cause I know it will just put another black mark on all hunters. They got caught, hopefully will get what's coming to them, and lets move on.[/b]

Bayed,

I'm just gonna toss this out for a chew. Maybe it doesn't make any sense at all.

The value of posting up about something like this on a forum like JHO, is that the "real" hunters can see it and speak out about it... exposing the BS for what it is, and showing what the true hunting community thinks about things like this. For the non-hunter or anti-hunter who stumbles across this site and reads the article, at least they also get the opportunity to read the responses from the community... and they see pretty quickly that this activity does NOT represent the views of the majority.

Otherwise, they read this kind of article in the paper (I saw it in the SF Chronicle), and they never get to hear the dialog that it spurs.

True, the majority of non-hunters and anti-hunters will never find this site, and will never have the benefit of this conversation. But a few will. There's value in even one.

I dunno.. whadda you think?

 

[MikenSoCo]

Bayed, I think I'm missing something. Are you saying that "yes, this guy is guilty of staging fights". Or was he training his dogs, which was mistaken by those not in the know, for fighting? Take it easy, I thought I was on your side. If he was staging fights, the rest of you houndsmen should hang his ass

 

[bayedsolid]

Speck-- I see what you are saying and it makes sense, but I suppose I have just seen too many of our hunting opportunities get kicked to the wayside from people with mis-information. I was living in Oregon when they voted on, and passed, no running bears and lions with dogs. I personally talked with many people who were non-hunters that voted against it and every single one was completely in the dark about what is really happening. I saw the advertisements where they showed a little cute 20 lb. cub get shot out of a tree ( which turned out to be a video from poachers in Idaho who were selling gall bladders or something, and had nothing to do with houndsman) and I saw just what mis-information can do. 80% of the state live in the big cities and don't hunt. All these people that I talked to after the fact were under the impression that they are saving the bears and lions from certain extinction at the hands of the houndsman. They thought from watching these videos and seeing all the b.s., that houndsman were able to kill as many of whatever they wanted and they would be saving a dieing breed by outlawing the hunting. There were advertisements where the Fish & Game were saying they need houndsman to control the lion population 'cause there is no other way to do it productively. These ad's obviously don't stick in your mind as much as a cute little cub falling out of a tree and guess what happened? People don't take the time to realize that there was a quota every year being met. They don't see that there was a 15% chance of drawing a lion tag before and now they sell unlimited tags over the counter for only $11.00 hoping the deer hunters will take some out. They don't realize that there are biologists taking head counts and allotting tags accordingly. In a perfect world, everyone would take in all sides for consideration, swirl it around with an open mind, and then make a decision about how they feel. This just never happens so when I see another BS media event out there mis-informing and twisting what is really going on....I guess I panic.

MikenSoCo--Sorry for coming off so strongly, it wasn't directed to anyone in particular, just at the topic. I don't know how much these events take place because the vast majority of the baypen events happen in the south and I'm not around it. I couldn't tell you the rules or exactly what goes on but since it is a 'catch' competition and the animal activists are up in arms, I'm sure I have a pretty good idea. These catch events don't have anything to do with hunting but they manage to lump hunters in the mix 'cause there are hogs and dogs. There is even a division among dog men over it too because some, like me, think it gives us a big black eye, and others think we need to stick together and support each other as dog owners. The thing is, these guys are not hunters any more than someone shooting a deer or hog in the same pen would be considered a hunter by you or me. The activists who want to outlaw hunting would certainly consider them a hunter when they push the article in the SF Sunday paper and that's what pisses me off.

If a dirtbike rider was caught dumping 2 quarts of mixed gas 10 feet over the line in Yosemite, National headlines would read- "Oil slick wipes out YOUR national parks, stop the motorcyles before it's too late!!" I don't ride motorcycles but knowing how they have come under scrutiny lately I would understand how this headline would make the average dirtbike rider cringe. How many millions of people in California alone don't ride dirtbikes so would not be affected at all by banning them all together? These people, who don't ride dirtbikes, (or go to the woods at all for that matter) don't take the time to see the big picture or reality before they pass a law banning something they have no connection to. That's what scares me.

 

[Speckmisser]

Bayed,

I'm with you 100% on what you're saying here. Public relations is all about selling an idea to the uninformed. If you figure 5% of the population (random stat...don't take me to task on it) is pro-hunting, and 5% of the population is anti, then that leaves 90% of the voting public in that uninformed segment. For them, they have nothing to lose either way, so whatever image sticks in their mind is usually what they vote on.

Hence my argument that the least we can do is to speak out against the B.S., even in our own little community...and even if it means preaching to the choir.

It would be even better if we had a popular voice among the non-hunting public, or ways to sell a positive image of hunters, but the fact is that we participate in blood sport which is a hard thing to spin... especially when you're killing the cute and cuddly critters.

It's an uphill battle, and I don't hold high hopes for the future. But I won't give up, either.

 

[RAPTOR]

I have seen several tapes of these catch dog competitions and even know a couple of guys who have competed in events that were legal at the time. The dog that catches the hog fastest is the winner and the winning time is usually as little as 4 or 5 seconds total. When the dog catches, handlers run to it and immediately break the dog off the pig. Calling it a "hog dog fight " or something like that is a real overstatement of what actually occurs. It sure as hell isn't hunting or anything close to hunting at all and I don't even think it is a good test of a catch dog's real ability for the most part. I am no fan of it but the events I have seen on tape and heard about from people I know are not at all what has been described and sensationalized in the media. Everyone can make their own mind up about these things but, as usual, it would be nice if that decision was at least a well informed one.

 

[MikenSoCo]

Thanks Raptor, I had a feeling. Imagine, the media showing only one side!!!!

 

[BirdDawg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Were these guys really "sport fighting" their animals, or was this training work?[/b]

is there a difference.......stick a hog in a pen with a dog and let it get tore up and call it training or competition...same difference........the bad thing is us hunters may take it up the shorts....if it's inhumane to have these competitions/training or whatever you want to call it how much different is it when you turn your dogs lose on hogs in the wild.........and if thats inhumane what about the people out there with guns poking holes in hogs.........now cat juggling on the other hand....thats a sport thats inhumane!!!

 

[MikenSoCo]

Hey how do you use the "quote" feature here??

 

[Speckmisser]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

now cat juggling on the other hand....thats a sport thats inhumane!!![/b]

What're you saying? I've seen you juggle cats, and you didn't look a bit more inhuman than you usually do. In fact, I don't think it's all that impressive... much less inhuman. Heck, what's a cat weigh? 10 lbs? How inhuman do you have to be to juggle that.

Wanna talk about inhuman? Now juggling Bobcats... that's inhuman!

 

[BirdDawg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Hey how do you use the "quote" feature here??[/b]

when you post you should see a tool bar above where your writing.....

B I U FONT SIZE COLOR close all tags
http:// IMG @ QUOTE CODE LIST

just hit the quote button.......copy and past quote and hit the quote button again for your end tag.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Wanna talk about inhuman? Now juggling Bobcats... that's inhuman![/b]

I'd pay good money to see you do this Spec.

 

[Franklin3]

Cat juggling is for people who cant afford chainsaws.