Good plains game caliber

[casper1974]

I was just in SA in May, brought my 300 winmag with Federal Premium 180 gr Barnes TSX. The rifle and ammo performed perfectly. Most dropped immediately, the other's didn't go far! I certainly wouldn't go lower than a .270 for the wildebeest, zebra, and kudu.

 

[m.rehme]

Nothing wrong with the 300 win mag.! I am going to try some of the TSX bullets on something big next.
I was in the market for a .338 but the Kimber Montana fits me perfect, I like short light weight rifles and figure the 225 grain 338 and 220 grain 325 is about the same.
If I need anything bigger I have a 375 H&H.

 

[Use_Enough_Gun]

Ditto on the 300 WM--but only because I've used it with success. That being said--and more importantly--I chose that caliber because had SUPREME confidence in my rifle, my ammo (200 gr. A-Frames) my optics--and finally--my shooting.

I'm not a marksman but I PRACTICED shooting from sticks/prone/off trees, etc.

Shoot a rifle (and I agree a .270 should be enough gun) that YOU know inside out--that FEEDS the ammo you're going to shoot--with good optics. Along those lines--If you have a variable power scope I'd suggest setting it at 4~6x and leaving it alone.

Then--reduce the pucker factor. Go out and shoot in as realistic of a setting as possible. You'll thank yourself once you are in the field and on live game.

 

[shakari]

Double ditto on the 300 WM

 

[jjhack]

During my career in this business, I've seem more 300 mags of one design or another then all other guns combined. There is not a season that goes by where there is not at least one 300 mag in camp every day. Many hunt periods have guys that all have one.

The 30/06 is a flawless performer, the 300 mag with good bullets steps it up from there. Over the last 5 years of intense use of that 30/06 of mine by many hunters using it as a loaner, plus my own use of it for hunting and culling projects. There has been a total of 2 animals lost with it. That is probably 250-300 big game animals total. Those two shot were both hit poorly and no cartridge fired from the shoulder would have changed the outcome. Both were also Blue Wildebeast, the toughest of the plains species to drop.

So if you're trying to figure out what to bring, I suggest starting at 30 caliber and then choosing the cartidge you can handle with ease. If that is a .308 it would be fine, if it's a 30/06 better yet, if you handle the recoil of the 300 mag level cartridge you cannot go wrong, just use a great bullet with the magnums, they do tend to increase the stress on the bullets, especially at the close range shooting in much of Southern Africa.

 

[casper1974]

I hear alot of people worry about recoil with the 300 WM. Sure, you feel the recoil at the range but in the field you don't even notice. It rings your ears more than it slams your shoulder.

 

[fortyfive70]

My load would have to be a corbon hammerhead in 45-70.....just love my levergun...never know when big nasty is waiting to eat you or tromp you into a mudhole...

 

[jjhack]

If that was your concern, then what about the 4570 comforts you as the better choice?

Don't want to upset the applecart here but the 45.70 is not a DG defense cartridge. Not even close. If worry about your safety is a primary concern then starting point is more in line with the 458win mag and then that is really the base line, it's not the best option but it's a good starting point.

Remember that killing power is a long shot different then crumple power. When you're in trouble you need to crumple something where it stands, as the priority, not just making them bleed to death, or suffocate.

This topic has been beat to death on the internet over the years, and at no point has the 45/70 been established as a DG backup cartridge. Not when the level of the 45/70 from a lever gun falls way short of the 458 win mag. The Win mag has been established over many decades and many thousands of DG animals as the base line minimum for African DG backup.

 

[fortyfive70]

Hmm......sorry to disagree.......but those corbons will take big nasty out.....

visit the website they do talk about the bullet passing threw a big cape buff...length wise....actually the design of the bullet out performs the 458 win...so they say.....i even read some where this dude took out the big 6 with his guide gun.....not that i have the cash to hunt those animals..but it should work...i think you talk about proper bullet placement...

 

[fortyfive70]

but we were talking about plains game calibers that we like to use...and i think my choice does work, and when the day comes that i go to africa...it will be the 45-70 that goes with me....

 

[jjhack]

Very well then carry on!

 

[bpnclark]

I used my 300 Win. My brother used a 300 Ultra and my father has used my 270 Win (SA) and his 30-06 Improved (Tanz). All did the job. If I was paying to shoot an Eland or Kudu I would not use anything less than a 300 Win. Not that you can’t kill them with a 270, but at their prices, I wouldn’t be taking any chances.

Fortyfive70 – there have been billions of arguments over the 45-70 in Africa. </ST1Mostly all the arguments come from 45-70 owners. If you want to use it, go ahead, its your money and time. But the 45-70 is not the greatest thing to have in your hand when big nasty comes…

 

[fortyfive70]

I own several calibers...all of them would be good plains game rifles.....but none of the calibers listed so far take into account if you turn the corner or round the bend...and come face to face with an upset elephant, or a grumpy ol' dagga boy....

a 45-70 properly loaded will exceed min velocity for a DG gun....

a 45-70 properly loaded is up to par with the old british rounds used.

a 45-70 also makes a good plains game caliber...since shot placement on african plains game is on the shoulder...i believe that is where the vitals are tucked behind.

I didn't say it was the best DG gun or the best Plains game gun...but it is my best for both...I use it for pig hunting in Alabama......i loaned it to my father to take to Canada for a bear hunt, and it rolled that boo-boo.

If my '06 or winny could make a complete pass through length wise on a cape buffalo then I would take that, but they can't...my 45-70 can.

I guess it goes back to my old boy scout days..

 

[jjhack]

Complete pass through Length wise on a cape buffalo? Exceeds minimum for DG? Great info Please continue on with this entertaining thread.

 

[fortyfive70]

I have also found your articles entertaining too....only reason why i come to this forum once a year is to read your articles in July when you get back..

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/reviews for the 45-70
http://bigfivehq.com/mincaliber.htm

Vince Lupo's african hunt's found also on garretts website is a cool read...was for me....

this is also a good read about a rsa ph who uses leverguns for african DG

Tracks Across Africa --- and Lever Gun - 24hourcampfire

 

[bpnclark]

Fortyfive70 – if the 45-70 is so great, why is there a constant argument about it. Your 24hourcampfire thread is 14 pages! And even the PH (you pointed out) said –

I feel the bolt rifles with .40 caliber and up are a better tool for the job. I would not use the leverguns unless my client had a great deal of competency and a large, more than adequate cartridge for the job.

Why would your PH say this if the 45-70 is so great?

 

[JBoutfishn]

Got to love these threads. The caliber used for plains game in the Selous is completely different than the caliber used for plains game in South Africa. Reason is simple. You want to be armed for most nasty critter in the area you are hunting. In the Selous a plains game rifle should be something in the class of a 375 or 416. In South Africa any rifle suitable for elk is more than adequate.

My personal preference for plains game when I am considered part of the food chain is my 416 Rem Mag. I use 350 grain Swift A Frames. It worked very well on a nasty buffalo.

In South Africa all plains game up to Eland fell to a single shot from my 300 Win Mag using 180 grain Swift A Frames. The Eland took a second shot only because of poor shooting on my part.

 

[Rick]

In Limpopo, my comrades used a .35 Whelen, a .338-06 and a .325 WSM. All worked well on everything from impala to wildebeest and zebra. No worries about big dangerous game there.

 

[DLS]

I sure came to this website late, but I've found it interesting.

Fortyfive70, I have a specific question for you. Just how many cape buffalo have you shot? Have you shot one lengthwise with that 45-70 and actually had it penetrate the entire length of a mature buffalo bull?

I just ask because I'd like a better idea of the experience you have when you make such an assertion. I will readily admit that I've never killed a cape buffalo with a 45-70, so I have no experience with what kind of buffalo caliber it might be, though I have an opinion.......

 

[DLS]

......on the other hand, I have killed cape buffalo with a .375 H&H, .416 Hoffman, .458 win mag and .470 Nitro Express. So, I'd like to know how you think that compares.

Before I'd carry a .45-70 as a dangerous game rifle that would double as a plains game rifle, I'd carry a .375 every time. If dangerous game, particularly elephants, were abundant, then I'd carry that .416. A 400 grain bullet at 2,510 from that rifle is potent medicine for most anything that walks. And, it is surprisingly flat shooting at typical african distances, too.