Group Hunting Lease/ California

[Bruz]

Been looking for some land to buy to hunt, shoot, get away to...was surprised of the interest generated on another thread about this, in fact just my posting that I was looking generated a few emails to me asking me to find land for others. Being a Broker this is hard for me, but I am wondering if buying is the most cost effective way to do this, property values are so high in this area your looking at about $1,000. per acre, looking at $200k for a 200 acre parcel which I feel does not necessarily lend itself to a good property for hunting.

In my searches I have found a rancher on 40,000 acres! Tempted to keep it to myself but with that much land I doubt if anyone would be bumping into each other, and with enough people perhaps we could lease the whole property without fear of the rancher leasing to anyone else.

The property is located around Hollister CA. (http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.ad...ty=hollister&state=ca&zipcode=&submit=Get+Map ), truely hogg heaven but there is deer, quial, dove, chuckers, and varmints as well. Unlimited hunting, shooting, camping, horse back riding for members and their families.

I took my son hogg hunting on a 2,000 acre ranch, $300. each for one day...if we just went out one day a month that would be $7,200. per year! I'm figuring for about the same price we could have unlimited access to a 40,000 acre ranch! I've decided I'm going to take the $100,000. I was going to invest in hunting land, buy a rental, and use the rent to pay for my lease! Now I just need around 20 like minded people to do the same.

Anyone interested? I know you are all serious about hunting but I'm seeking people who have the cash as well...please only contact me if you are serious and have the disposable income to go for this now. I MAY be able to offer some financing with a large down payment, but cash talks!

I hope this is OK to post here? advantagerealty@charter.net

 

[raidernation]

I'm all over it!! This is exactly what I have been looking for. All of the Local Hunting clubs that I know of are full or they are just a real tight bunch. Not to mention Hollister is my High school stomping grounds. I live near Salinas now.

Let's talk specifics.

Continue posting here or PM me if you want.

Which Ranch is this? Where abouts? Can we do some sort of an Open House sometime to check out the property?

Many questions to be had.

Look forward to hearing back from you.

 

[Bruz]

Does kinda sound too good to be true! I have alot more research to do; I have not even seen the place yet. I have no agreement with him yet either...right now I am doing a "feasibility study" on it, need to see how many people, with the bucks, can do this. Then I will make an offer to the rancher...if that works out then I will arrange an open house for all interested to check the property out.

All interested can post here but also email me with your info so I can keep everyone straight.

 

[Speckmisser]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

need to see how many people, with the bucks, can do this.[/b]

How much "bucks" are we talking about?

40K acres is about the same as the South side of Tejon (IIRC), and that area absorbs 50-75 hunters with minimal cross-over. The area around Hollister isn't as rugged as Tejon, which suggests that you'd want a few less hunters in the field at one time.

I'd like to hear more about the plan. I'm not rolling in cash, but for the right opportunity I could possibly free some up.

 

[Rick]

I'd be interested, too, but not at $7200 a year apiece! We did something similar with about 10 or 12 guys at about $700 to $1000 apiece each year. It worked out well and the deal lasted for close to 10 years, until the rancher died.

Chopper's (Big Tusker) place in Hollister is pretty rugged and hilly - you could have a few hunters on his 4000 acres. I think he runs up to about 6 (?) per day. We had 5 in our group and it didn't seem crowded.

 

[BDB]

I have been looking for exactly this type of thing myself. The $$$ figure is the key to me. I don't mind putting up some bucks for year round private access for a group but like rick stated, below the $7200/year. I am definitely interested though and can fork out some cash quickly if need be. Keep us posted.

 

[sdbowyer]

Bruz,

I'm a little unclear on what you're plan is. I can't tell if you need 20 guys with $7200 or 20 guys with $100,00. I can't tell if you're wanting to buy or lease. Can you run the idea by us 1 more time?

 

[raidernation]

The way I read the post, It is $100K divided by 20 or so, Should come out to about $5k or so. Right?

 

[bubba]

I'm interested. More details and clarification on how much you are expecting to need. You might want to look into insurance for the rancher and how much that will cost him. I'm guessing we will be paying for that also. I have a few other friends with disposable income also. There might be another oppurtunity for another ranch in the same area that is at least 40,000 acres if not more. Once we have the details together, I can approach him with the same offer.

 

[Bruz]

How much "bucks" are we talking about?


Depends on how many people...he was hinting around $120,000. to lease the ranch so with 20 people it would be 6,000 bucks per person. Not sure if I want more than 20 "families" on the property?

This is also a fact finding mission for me...I have always bought and sold real estate and talked people out of renting/ leasing but $6,000. seems to be very cost effective for 1/20th of a share of a $25,000,000. ranch (rough estimate based on $500. per acre...smaller pieces of land I have located in this area are going for $1,000. per acre).


I'd be interested, too, but not at $7200 a year apiece! We did something similar with about 10 or 12 guys at about $700 to $1000 apiece each year. It worked out well and the deal lasted for close to 10 years, until the rancher died.


As mentioned I am new to this so trying to learn the process...$700 to $1,000 per year? Why was there a range, what factored one's rate? How many acres were you on? Was this unlimited access?


you could have a few hunters on his 4000 acres. I think he runs up to about 6 (?) per day. We had 5 in our group and it didn't seem crowded.

I hunted on 2,000 acres with 6 people, and where it was not crowded we covered the whole ranch in a day and saw nothing that day. I want to be able to be on "my" lease opening day for deer and not see anyone for a week...I don't want to have to limit my hunting time because there are too many hunters, and I don't want to have people that do not know what they are doing on "my" lease with a gun in there hand. I want to have so much game I can actually pass up a buck or two to find that good one, I want to make sure when I go for pig there are many out there. Two ways to help assure this, lots of land a few hunters...or am I being too picky?


I don't mind putting up some bucks for year round private access for a group but like rick stated, below the $7200/year.

I'm just trying to gather facts here...I wish I could find a lease like this for a couple thousand a year as well, but have not found it, the only thing I have found is $300. a day for a 2,000 acre ranch.

My goal is to try to find knowledgable people here that can educate me on what is a fair price, not what people wish they could pay. I'm not going to go to the rancher and say that I know the lease is worth $120,000. per year but we only want to pay $40,000. Or am I being unrealistic on the amount of people 40,000 acres can handle? I can see only paying a couple thousand a year for a 4,000 acre ranch, what should a ranch 10 times larger go for!?


I'm a little unclear on what you're plan is. I can't tell if you need 20 guys with $7200 or 20 guys with $100,00. I can't tell if you're wanting to buy or lease. Can you run the idea by us 1 more time?

Sure, but I'm not clear because I'm not clear! Got a rancher that owns a 40,000 acre ranch and am trying to get him to lease the whole ranch to me instead of signing up 100 people I don't know to hunt it. He has hinted he believes his ranch should yield him $120,000 per year for such a lease. I have been looking for land to buy but am quickly figuring out that I need thousands of acres instead of hundreds, and land is so expensive in this area it is not cost effective to buy a multi-million dollar ranch for hunting and camping when one can lease one for about the cost of the property taxes.

What I am seeking is feedback on how many people a 40,000 acre ranch can easily handle and what would be a fair price to lease said ranch...how many here would go for a lease like that and have the cash to do so. Even if we could get 20 people with $100,000. each that is "only" $2,000,000. which it appears would "only" buy 2,000 to 4,000 acres. The property tax and insurance alone would be about $1,200. per person per year.


I have a few other friends with disposable income also. There might be another oppurtunity for another ranch in the same area that is at least 40,000 acres if not more. Once we have the details together, I can approach him with the same offer.

This is great info...if we have two ranchers we can "play against each other" to get the price down we may get a better deal. This is the type of activity I was hoping to generate. What we need is the power of numbers to get the best deal. In my next post I will start a list to see an estimate on what we have to work with.

Thanks all!

 

[Cahunter]

I live in gilroy and grew up around here so I might know the owner. I could go check out the ranch if you like and give you a full report. some of that land out that way is unusable because its just open hills. with no trees and just a small amount of grass, not even enough for squerrils.


As far as the money goes 120 K seems a bit pricey you should be able to get the rancher to come down a bit. You also could look into leaseing it back to cattle man to let his cattle graze the ranch for part of the year. This really helps to off set the cost of the lease, most ranches that I have hunted around town do this. the other thing is you could close the ranch to all memeber for a few months to take guided hunters in. This would make about 10k a year for the partnership. I work In Finance so if you needed some help I could point you in the right direction.


If you could get the cost down to around 2500 a year I would be interested. if you have any questions PM me or just post them here.

 

[wmidbrook]

You can probably count on the fact that the rancher has been approached by outfitters trying to lease the property before. My guess would be that an outfitter wouldn't pay more than 10 - 30 k/ year (most likely closer to $10k) for a hunting lease on that size of a property.

If you're trying to buy the place as one chunk, my guess is that FMV on that size of a parcel is $500/acre--so about $20 mil. Downpayment would be $4 million...I doubt you'd be able to drum up enough interest in a purchase arrangement as a Managing Partner. Income from cattle leasing would not even come close to paying the mortgage.

 

[ozstriker22]

I don't have any $$$ so I'm not in on this one. But one quick word of advice... Make sure you do EVERYTHING in writing. Including who is going to pay what, what happens if someone can't/doesn't pay, how many times a month the partners are allowed to hunt, how many kills each partner is allowed, etc... otherwise you could end up with some hurt feelings and a lawsuit on your hands. Those are my .02...

 

[sdbowyer]

I would only be interested in putting that kind of money down if there was a plan to make some money back. Yes, we could have it all to ourselves for deer season and almost any time after that, but an effort should be made to generate money during the off season with the pigs or other means. 40,000 is huge to me and should be enough for quite a few of us with varying schedules.

 

[Bruz]

I live in gilroy and grew up around here so I might know the owner. I could go check out the ranch if you like and give you a full report. some of that land out that way is unusable because its just open hills. with no trees and just a small amount of grass, not even enough for squerrils.

Just may take you up on this...planning on meeting the rancher at the ranch Friday to negotiate with him (try to get the price down, etc.), check out the property, and take some pictures. According to him there is a "desert" side of the property, a moutain side up to 4,000 feet with trees including pine, and valley land with grass and trees. He is even in the process of "rehabilitating" a lake that was on the property in the 50's.

Just got off the phone with the rancher, new information...the ranch is actually closer to 30,000 acres deeded with 20,000 acres of BLM land landlocked within it's borders totaling 50,000 acres available for the lease. There is an addition 20,000 acres of BLM land surrounding the property.


You also could look into leaseing it back to cattle man to let his cattle graze the ranch for part of the year.

Sorry, should of mentioned the rancher will still have access to the property for running his cattle...he and his family will still be able to hunt the property as well as the two care takers that live on the property.


the other thing is you could close the ranch to all memeber for a few months to take guided hunters in. This would make about 10k a year for the partnership. I work In Finance so if you needed some help I could point you in the right direction.

Have considered this...been looking in the area and it looks like the going rate for a deer hunt is $1,500., and an additional $1,000. if you shoot something? Is this true?

Thanks for the offer to help...when you say you work in finance is there a way to finance a lease like this?


My guess would be that an outfitter wouldn't pay more than 10 - 30 k/ year (most likely closer to $10k) for a hunting lease on that size of a property.


This is the type of info I am seeking, are you sure about this price? Why are the numbers not adding up for me? If the lease is worth $10,000., and the average hunting club has what, 20 members, your saying there are 1/20 shares of unlimited hunting leases on 30,000 to 50,000 acre ranches for just $500. a head? With no restrictions or fee's on the deer and hoggs you can get? Please tell me where, I will buy the whole lease myself today! I am serious about this wmidbrook, I will pay you a commission for even a 20,000+ acre ranch with unlimited access and hunting, that has alot of game as this rancher promises, for $10,000. I want to get serious with my hunting but am finding it hard to lay out $600. a day for my son and I to hunt pigs, not to mention deer, qual, and dove.


I doubt you'd be able to drum up enough interest in a purchase arrangement as a Managing Partner. Income from cattle leasing would not even come close to paying the mortgage.

I agree 100% and have come to the same conclusion, it is not cost effective to buy a hunting ranch...my money can do much better in another investment and leasing is the only way to go.


I don't have any $$$ so I'm not in on this one. But one quick word of advice... Make sure you do EVERYTHING in writing. Including who is going to pay what, what happens if someone can't/doesn't pay, how many times a month the partners are allowed to hunt, how many kills each partner is allowed, etc... otherwise you could end up with some hurt feelings and a lawsuit on your hands. Those are my .02...

Great advise...being a Broker I am used to filling out reams of paper to protect my clients and myself!


I would only be interested in putting that kind of money down if there was a plan to make some money back. Yes, we could have it all to ourselves for deer season and almost any time after that, but an effort should be made to generate money during the off season with the pigs or other means. 40,000 is huge to me and should be enough for quite a few of us with varying schedules.

Once again this is the info I am seeking...would it be better to charge to take people on a hunt or just have more "friends" go in on the lease?

 

[Cahunter]

Buy that proporty would require way to much capital, you could never make enough to cover what the payments would be, let alone come up with a down payment. If you could lease it for 70k a year you would be able to make it work, even at a 100,000 you could still swing it. If there are alot of hogs on the proporty you could bring in about six hunters a weekend at 500 a man , with a small trophy fee for large hogs. That would get you 12,000 a month roughly, You could also give up one week of deer season and you could charge alot more for deer 3500 for a weeks hunt. You could bring at least 10 hunters in on 40,000 acres. these are all just rough estimates but that would give you about 83,000 a year in cash flow. Thats with 4 month of pig hunting and one week of deere hunting. You could hunt during the week and bring in more cash but that would take away hutin time form the people that started this thing.

 

[Bruz]

As mentioned I'm going to go check out this ranch and see what deal I can make. Unless something else comes up soon I think I will lease this ranch...the rancher agrees with me that his life would be easier if he only has one person to deal with, that he is good at ranching and should stick to that. If I do all the work sub-leasing the ranch and "controlling" the leasee's then I should be able to lease the property for less saving us all money.

OK, let's take the next step...if you had unlimited use of around 50,000 acres for you and your immediate family to hunt, ride horses, and camp on, with no limit on game except for what the group decides, who has around $4,500. cash, and is ready to lease said property now. Assume no extra fee's or income at this point, we may discuss having a friend being able to hunt for a fee in the future if all agree. First come first chance subject to group approval as we are seeking 20 "like minded" people at this time.

Please email me or respond to this thread with your name and/ or someone you know and have talked to about this that wants in...

1. Bruz.

2. Brad O.

3. Steve.

 

[bigtusker]

Here's a question.

How many other ranches are there bordering the BLM allowing access to it for hunting purposes?

The only place I know of in San Benito County that has 20,000 acres of BLM is in Clear Creek and is bordered on one side by the Ashurst Ranch.

 

[raidernation]

Don't forget me....

 

[Hogskin]

Sounds like there's a whole lot more that needs to be clarified. For example, the owner says that he retains the rights to hunt the property. If he shoots a pig or two off of it each year and maybe a deer, that's no big deal. If he's got all his hillbilly relatives coming out of the woodwork and they're whacking critters like they're going out of style, that's another thing altogether.

Also, does each membership get 1 guy in or his family? Or him & his friend?

And before I'd fork over my hard earned cash, I'd want to know something about my fellow prospective members. Are any of them drunks that like to shoot their pistols off after having a few barley pops? Are they going to shoot you while you are set up in a bush because they thought you looked like a hog (a distinct possibility in my case with me looking like I do)?

The guy may give you the, "I'm just a simple rancher, I don't know nothin' 'bout no leases and legal stuff, let's just shake on it routine but don't fall for it. If he's sophisticated enough to acquire the place, he's no boob.

I also agree with wmiddlebrook, I have a hard time believing that guides in the area pay $120,000 a year to hunt hogs on a 40,000 acre ranch. A lot of those guys get the leases because they're part of the good ol' boy network. One in particular that I know up there was born & raised in Lockwood and he's well-connected. Sure, he pays a reasonable price for the lease, but he's got a history with the community up there and folks know him. They're much more likely to give it to him than some stranger.

Good luck, sure sounds enticing.