Group Hunting Lease/ California

[bayedsolid]

I've read a few of these posts on this topic and, although I'm not planning on getting in on this deal, right off the top I had a few problems that came to mind that you guys might want to think about. I do think it's a great idea in theory but I'm sure, especially the first year, everybody is going to be hitting it hard. If you found a ranch that was loaded with deer and everybody has 2 tags, thats 40 possible deer the first year, which is way too many to come off of one ranch, even a real big one. What about guests? Even if the final word was no hunting guests allowed, what happens when one of you gets caught with a couple of his buddies out there? Sure, everybody will say "I'll never do that", but what do you do when it happens? Everybody is excited now, and has their money up front, but what happens next year when 2 of you get laid off from your job, 2 of you go through an unexpected divorce, and one of you gets in a bad car accident, all right before the lease money is due? Who comes up with the money for these 5 guys, or even for 1 person for that matter? Do you lose the lease then? What if one person is consistantly tearing up the roads from driving on them during or after the rain? Does everybody pitch in to re-grade them? Tell me that won't go over like a lead balloon with the guys that haven't been out there even once since the last rain. I came up with these problems in just a few seconds of looking for potential problems. It just seems like there are an infinate number of problems that could come up when everybody has an equal say in what goes on. If you go on a guided hunt, the ranch owner holds the guide responsible, not the 20 hunters he has taken out over the past couple months. There is one person, with the final say so. He pays for the lease and doesn't have to rely on anybody else. If he doesn't come up with the money, he is the only one that is affected. If everybody followed all the rules and paid all the money way in advance, it still only takes a few to screw things up. I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I think it is going to be more difficult than it is seeming up to this point. Even if you went to a lawyer and had an extensive contract drawn up, is everybody gonna pitch in on that cost? What happens when everybody pitches in and then some don't agree with the final outcome? Does everybody want to kill me yet? Okay, I'll stop. Good luck though.

 

[BDB]

I am still interested and could fork out the $4500 (preferable less) if it all worked out. There would have to be great deer opportunities for me to be serious though. I like hunting hogs but not quite that $$$'s worth.

Granting off deer season access to people for a fee to make cash sounds good to me. There may even be a JHO'er or two that would pay a little for some land access for piggies

Like many said there are still plenty of details to find out before committing. As to the BLM land-locked land. I wouldn't consider that part of the lease (IMO). I know of at least one operation in the area that air lifts groups in all deer season to land locked BLM land for deer and pig hunting. Works out to about $1500/head for 4 guys to hunt public land from a drop camp style setup. Even though the average person really can't get to it, it is still public land, that's why he choppers you in. To me we would have to look at it as a 30,000 acre lease with the bonus of another 20,000 that SHOULD see minimal pressure. Just my opinion anyway.

Steve

 

[sdbowyer]

Wow, sounds like we'd have to hire that grumpy hag at FHL to check us all in at the front gate!

 

[Speckmisser]

$120K/year for a lease, and the lease doesn't include exclusive rights (no owner's family or caretaker hunting)? $4500/yr per member? That seems pretty high, but I guess it's worth as much as someone will pay.

Way too rich for my blood. I thought waterfowl leases were expensive. For that kind of money, I'd expect a lodge and leaseholder-only hunting rights.

Bayedsolid brings up some real good points too, as far as harvest numbers. Somebody's gonna need to talk with the biologists to get an idea of a reasonable deer quota, or you'll have that place shot out in two years... even at 50% success. That kinda thing costs money.

I know that looking at all the potential problems sounds like a lot of naysaying, but it's the simple fact that when people part with that kind of cash, there's an expectation coming with a sense of entitlement.

Good luck to ya fellas.

 

[bigtusker]

Don't let 'em fool you on the property taxes either. If it's a working cattle ranch, you can bet it's in the Williamson Act and substantially cheaper than property that's not in it.

 

[Bruz]

There are no ranches that have access to the 20,000 acres of land locked BLM land...guess someone could chopper some people in but I'm sure that will have minimal impact as they still can not go onto the ranch.

There is alot still to be decided, the rancher says he only harvests a few animals per year between him, family, and ranch hands. We may need to self regulate how much game we harvest, this is why I want a large ranch with few people.

Membership is for the member and their immediate family at this time. If we all decide to have it the member, family, and friend, or member, family, and paying friend, or member, family or friend, we can work that out later. I'll have to check on how many deer the rancher thinks he has on the ranch but even with 20 members getting one deer a year thats 20 deer gone right there. The rancher and I have talked about food plots and water for happy, healthy game.

Hunters are the most ethical people I know, but if someone breaks the rules they lose their membership. If someone steals from the members (like by bringing their friends to hunt, or taking more game that agreed to), or drinks before hunting, or any other illegal or immoral behavior they may lose their membership. I am sure we can find 20 members with character between the members of this forum and our friends.

I have a feeling there is going to be a waiting list to get into this "hunting club", not too concerned about losing a few members. The rules will be agreed upon in advance and violaters will be culled.

It appears I have the rancher down to $90,000. or the $4,500. per member per year. This sounds like a great deal to me since I would drop that much money taking my son deer hunting once and hogg hunting twice, even if we don't bag anything!


1. Bruz.

2. Brad O.

3. Steve H.

4. raidernation

5. sdbowyer

6. Huntin' Foo'

 

[huntducks]

$90 K sounds like a bit high for a opened ended lease I don't care what you say you are leasing 30K acres not 50K, I'll bet WU pays nothing close to that for there leases.

I can do some real serious hunts both in state and out for $4500 per year guided.

 

[Bruz]

I don't care what you say you are leasing 30K acres not 50K,

Did I ever say the lease was for 50k acres? Was I not perfectly clear the lease was around 30k acres with 20k acres of land locked BLM land?


I'll bet WU pays nothing close to that for there leases.

Well good for WU...who the heck is WU, and why do we care what they pay?


I can do some real serious hunts both in state and out for $4500 per year guided.

Uh, OK, have fun.


I'm not trying to sell anyone on this lease, I'm just trying to find a place to hunt! If anyone has the same needs and we can do better as a group then that is great. If anyone has some constructive information that will help us out please post it. If someone has some facts on a better deal I will be first in line but please post facts...all the nay sayers are saying it is too much money and there are better deals, where are they! WU pays less, that's great for him, how does that help us? Are there any ranches available at a lower price we can lease, where are they!? Where are these "serious" guided hunts for $4,500. a year! If you don't have a name and number it's just BS.

 

[Quacker Wacker]

Man, some of you guys are getting way to negative. Understand the first rule of an open market system, the value of anything is what someone is willing to pay for it. If you think it's too expensive don't buy it. No one can guarantee what anyone else on the lease will do, all you can do is set up a reasonable, unanamously agreed set of rules, with reasonable punishments for breaking them.

I am currently moving from Kalifornia to Idaho, but I my best friend lives in Paso. Now he only has 1 child, and despite his efforts, she loves to go hunting with him but doesn't want to kill anything. His Dad would love to come hunt with him as would I once per year. Also, if someone buys into the lease like me with 3 boys who love to hunt and we went every weekend, we could do some real damage. Maybe you should consider a limit per lease holder. For $4500/yr you get up to 4 deer, and say 10 pigs. At 20 lease holders that would be 80 deer and 200 Hogs. Now after reviewing the property for it's general game carrying capacity, go have an informal discussion with the area dfg biologist to see what they think an area like that can hold. Adjust the numbers accordingly. In this arrangement, if these numbers held up, then a large family could get there money's worth, and in a situation like my friends I could come with him, as could his Dad, and we could pay him to offset his costs. I would say a non-immediate family, member, like a friend should pay a daily fee of say $25-50/day extra to discourage abuse and to act as sort of a tracking system. For example, if you had a member with some friends and they had not paid they would be busted. Granted you can't afford a security person, and the quota's will be pretty much an honor system, but that is all you can do. If someone wants to sell back some of their limit for guided/access hunts then they could, but it would go into a pot, not on a one on one basis so as not to create problems or find people trying to actually make a profit. Also, if others wanted to shoot more than there limit, then they could buy some of those sold back. Example, Member A sells back 2 deer for $750/ea. Another member could buy these for $750 or they could be sold for a guided hunt for say $1000, with the extra $250 going into a pool for other expenses such as legal fee's, insurance, habitat upgrades, etc. All guests would be the sole responsibility of the lease holder and must be accompanied by them, if they break a rule the lease holder is fined/punished/kicked-out. One other thing on the lease, what period where you thinking of leasing it for, year to year, 5years,? and what kind of adjustments would be allowed for increases in the rate in later years?

Understand, these are just some rough idea's to work with and the numbers are just an idea of a starting point. I think this is a great idea. Sorry about the long post!

 

[Rick]

Our deal was with a rancher who lived on the property, raised cattle and grew barley. The price varied by how many pigs you wanted and if you wanted a deer or not. (It was not a terrific deer area for big bucks.) Just for hunting and camping rights, the price seems steep. If I lived closer, it might still be worth $4500 to me. But it is a far enough drive that I would only go two or three times a year, probably. If ti is worth it to you, then it is a deal.

I agree, though, that the price seems steep for simply a hunting lease. For that price, I would think it would include grazing rights, etc.

 

[Bruz]

Thanks Quacker Wacker for your words, was begining to wonder if I should not just pay the $6,000. for just the one share I was originally talking to the rancher about...still have not heard from anyone that actually has a better deal. Some negetive posters are emailing me saying it is way to much, that they are paying like half the amount, but not one is leasing more than a 4,000 acre ranch! I'm I missing something? Would not a ranch almost 10 times bigger be worth more? Maybe not 10 times more, but twice as much?


I agree, though, that the price seems steep for simply a hunting lease. For that price, I would think it would include grazing rights, etc.

Once again, do you know of any alternatives? I do not want to look for another year for a place to hunt, I want to be hunting, and at the rates I am paying for the cheapest hunts I can find I will have already spent $4,500. The ranch grosses like a million dollars a year running cattle, does not seem like it would be wise for them to throw that into the deal?

I want to take my son hunting before he takes off to the Navy...he is going to try out to be a SEAL so I may not see him for awhile. Would like to spend a full week with him camping and hunting, have always been "too busy" and never had a place to hunt while he was growing up. Cheapest I have found is $300. per day per person. Add it up, that's $4,200. right there, almost my whole yearly fee for the lease on the ranch I am talking about.

Unless someone actually has some FACTS or REAL alternatives I ask you not post just because you FEEL it is too much or you simply don't have the money and are jealous that some do.

 

[Hogskin]

If you can get yourself (and your son) into the deal for 6 grand as opposed to sharing the lease with 20+ other parties and paying 4 grand, you're nuts not to take the solo deal for 6. The $2,000 more you spend for the solo deal is money well spent to not have all the headaches of managing a lease with a herd of other people (especially people you don't know from Adam).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

The ranch grosses like a million dollars a year running cattle, does not seem like it would be wise for them to throw that into the deal?[/b]

That doesn't seem like all that much money on a place that size. Most gentleman farmers are not getting rich, they're ranching because it's a way of life they love. Or they make a pile of cash at another profession and keep the ranch which generates losses to offset other income sources.

The fact that you're trying to hook up a handful of guys into a good hunting deal is very admirable, but I don't think you are completely grasping the absolute pains in the neck which will come along with it. If it were me, I'd pay an extra 2k just to have a headache free experience and not get a knot in my stomach thinking about the lease members who turned out to be jackasses and I now have to deal with.

Best of luck to you in whatever you decide and best wishes to your son as he goes to serve our country. You must be very proud.

 

[Bruz]

The fact that you're trying to hook up a handful of guys into a good hunting deal is very admirable, but I don't think you are completely grasping the absolute pains in the neck which will come along with it.

I'm begining to grasp it! One of my first posts I had mentioned that I would share any information to help this group as far as hunting goes and got the same response, that if I found something I should keep it a secret...it's been so hard to find a place and get into hunting I did want to share with others, but perhaps you are right and I should just keep it to myself...


That doesn't seem like all that much money on a place that size.

I agree 100%, it is a miricle there are any ranches left. We send billions over seas for oil but pay our ranchers and farmers nothing for all their hard work and investment. I we grew crops to turn into methane gas all of that money could stay at home and go to who deserves it, but that's another story...I was just trying to say that even though it is not much return on the investment it still would make no sense for the rancher to include that in the $90,000. lease.


Best of luck to you in whatever you decide and best wishes to your son as he goes to serve our country. You must be very proud.


Thanks Hogskin, and yes I'm very proud, scared but proud...

 

[Hogfever]

Hey Bruz,
Off the subject a little bit, but I just read your post and saw the part about your kid joining the Navy. If you or him have any Q's, PM me, I've been in 18 1/2 years and I'm stationed in Lemoore, if you want. Best of luck to your son.

Tim

 

[Bruz]

Thanks Tim, much appreciated...I'll pass you onto my son. Thanks for dedicating 19 years out of your life to protect my way of life!

 

[Bruz]

Was raining so did not make it to the ranch, not sure about next week end as the rancher may or may not be in town...I did not want to go in the rain and mud, wanted to get access to the whole ranch and some good pictures.

Not going to post here anymore, going to take it to emails so we don't waste any bandwidth...all that said they were interested I will contact directly, if you have not heard from me in a couple weeks contact me directly by my email, some accounts send me directly to the junk mail cause of my addy.