Guided hunts - are prices to high?

[Speckmisser]

Hey Kentuck and 7mag, let me know when you start your business and I'll be your first customer at those rates.

Seriously though, it's not an all or nothing proposition. Nothing (except the pocketbook) says you can't do a guided/pay-to-play hunt once or twice a year, and do public land the rest of the time. So dropping the dime for a guided hunt doesn't preclude getting all the time afield that you want.

I do think it's interesting to hear what people think is "fair" for a guided hunt. A couple of years ago, it was "I could see $150 or $200, but there's no way I'm paying $300 for a pig!"

Now it's "I could see $300 or so, but there's no way I'm paying $500!"

In a couple more years, I'm sure we'll be hearing, "I could see $500, but there's no way I'm paying $1000 for a pig!"

It'll hit a ceiling, but a lot of folks still won't be able to afford it, and that's just the way it is. Nothing wrong with that.

I don't see paying thousands of dollars to go hunt a danged old deer. Not worth it to me. But obviously it's worth it to somebody else.

 

[Rancho Loco]

7mag - put your money where your mouth is.

Go out and buy or lease a ranch, or get the concession, and start putting out those $100 to $300 hunts.

And let us know how it works out.

 

[hatchet1]

ah, here we go again

cant wait for another bout of this crap, get on it boys

 

[bpnclark]

What about paying a guide to run his dogs on a pig on his property and charging $ you for it.

 

[7magHunter]

QUOTE (Rancho Loco @ Jan 7 2008, 05:29 PM)

7mag - put your money where your mouth is.

Go out and buy or lease a ranch, or get the concession, and start putting out those $100 to $300 hunts.

And let us know how it works out.

Here we go again!!!!

Who's talking about buying a ranch?
You just PUI "posting under the influence"

Anyway,
Speckmisser got a point, prices are keep going up, some like it that way I don't., this was in reply to what I like to pay not what reality is, so the flaming is not nesesary!

 

[Rancho Loco]

QUOTE (7magHunter @ Jan 7 2008, 06:34 PM) http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=950968

Here we go again!!!!

Who's talking about buying a ranch?
You just PUI "posting under the influence"

Nope - I'm not going to get into insults, you can - I don't care.. Just go out and LEASE or BUY or get the CONCESSION, and put on your $100-$300 hunts.

If you can't buy, do what other's have..get a lease or a concession... Go out and do it and see where you end up.

 

[Speckmisser]

No flames yet... or at least I hope not.

It really is an interesting thread to me, and I do think it'll be fun to dig this out of the archives in a couple of years.

As for my part, I'm serious... start a decent guide service with good success rate and charge $300, and I'll be there. So will the majority of hog hunters in CA, I'm sure. Two years ago, though, offer a hunt for $300 and you'd get the same responses we're hearing now... it's too expensive and hogs aren't worth it.

That's the insidious way the free market works. It's shocking at first, and folks scream, "too expensive!" But over time it sinks in, becomes acceptable, and then the prices go up again. A bargain today was a "rip-off" two years ago. Not just in guided hunts, but all over the place. I remember the near-euphoria in the Bay Area when gas prices dipped under $3! Hell, I remember saying it'll never top $1 a gallon! And I'm NOT that old.

In the meantime, if I want to go guided (I probably won't) or with a tresspass fee (I defnitely will at Tejon and with Golden Ram), I'll pay the going rate. Why? Because it's worth it to me, and I can afford it.

 

[7magHunter]

I wasn't referring to you Speckmisser, I meant Rancho.
Again it is what I like to pay not what reality is.
If Rancho or some other don't like the way I think it's just too bad, I still saying that $400 is too much dough!
What happened to freedom of opinion?

 

[Rancho Loco]

You've identified what you think is a fair price in post #39. Now show us how that would be viable in today's reality.

 

[7magHunter]

QUOTE (Rancho Loco @ Jan 7 2008, 07:06 PM)

You've identified what you think is a fair price in post #39. Now show us how that would be viable in today's reality.

What part do you want me to explain?
QUOTE

Pig hunts used to be free in the 80s, I say $100 to $150 for unguided, $300 tops for 1 day guided!

You want to pay 400,500 heck go for the whole 1,000 I don't care is your money, I'm smarter to know better, I just don't hunt pigs in private property and I can put my money to a better use.
But don't let me stop you please go ahead enjoy your hunting safari adventure and don't forget to take yor credit cards and brand new BMW.
I have a family and more important expenses to take care than blow thousands of dollars in a pig hunt!
Have fun!

 

[Speckmisser]

I think Rancho (and he's a big boy and can speak for himself) is, in his astringently sarcastic way, saying that trying to run a hunt operation with rates that low is not realistic.

I'd challenge that assertion, because I think that a well-managed operation with enough land access and good hog populations could do pretty well at that rate. But it would mean cutting things like liability insurance pretty tight. I've seen the inside of a couple of operations well enough to know what it takes to stay afloat, and what it takes to make a reasonable profit.

But that's sort of the rub, isn't it? Nobody's gonna get rich, necessarily, but if there's a profit to be made any businessman would be a fool not to make it. If you can book every hunt for a season at the higher end of the going rate, then why not? That's business!

If you want to be the "everyman" outfitter, that's cool too. Your hunts will fill up, you'll work your butt off, and you'll make ends meet. If that's all you want, as a businessman, I suppose that's fine. As a consumer, I'd probably appreciate it... if I could get booked with you.

But... here's what happens. You book at low rates. Things stay pretty level for you, not bad, but not growing because you can't afford to add new properties. The other, more profitable operations will soon be able to offer your landowners a higher lease or per-hog rate. They'll cut you out. Your landowners, businessmen themselves, will see a higher annual return and go with it. It's the nature of the beast.

Anyway, it really comes back to my original point (at least for me it does). Guided hunts are a luxury... no different from a Rolls Royce or a fancy golf membership. Anybody is welcome to gripe about the costs, but the fact is, as long as someone's paying the price, griping about it is like a fart in a tornado.

 

[Backcountry]

I think the price of all hunts are completely fair... no one has a gun to anyone's head forcing anyone to pay the going rate... If you don't want to pay, do go. If enough guys don't pay the going rate, the rate goes down... if you can't keep up with the Joneses who have more disposable incooime than you, get two jobs, or go back to college, or learn how to budget better.

This is elementary supply-side Econ 101.

There's a lot of trips and toys I want, but can't afford... who's fault is that but mine? Certainly I don't blame the people or companies that have what I want, but chose not to buy, either for lack of funds, or common sense because debt is an evil thing.

 

[hatchet1]

i might also add, please refer to post #8, not rocket science, just the facts jack,s

good night ,and i look forward to following up on this post in the a.m,as im sure there will be more banter
and rederic to enjoy my cup of coffee too.

 

[7magHunter]

QUOTE (Speckmisser @ Jan 7 2008, 07:19 PM)

I think Rancho (and he's a big boy and can speak for himself) is, in his astringently sarcastic way, saying that trying to run a hunt operation with rates that low is not realistic.

This is what I've been saying from post #39
Quote: is what I want to pay, but it's not the reality!
Why is so difficult to understand?

QUOTE

Guided hunts are a luxury... no different from a Rolls Royce or a fancy golf membership. Anybody is welcome to gripe about the costs, but the fact is, as long as someone's paying the price, griping about it is like a fart in a tornado.

I agree it's a luxury for the ones who can afford it and money is not a problem!
I honestly think that paying these prices is inflating the pig fees, like you said in your previous post, today is $500 in a couple of years could go up to $1,000 a pig and on and on....
So if your rich or make a great living it won't affect you at all, but most average incomes can't pay these prices, besides I don't really believe a Ca wild pig is worth $400 or more, I wouldn't pay $100 to hunt a coyote either, but I'm sure a few people wouldn't mind.

 

[bpnclark]

I just heard the coyote guides are now charging trophy fees.

 

[upper]

&
7-Mag,the reality is you are pissssssed you can't afford a pig hunt.I can not afford a govenors hunt.I am sure there are people that are pisssssed at you cause they can not afford a trip to Ensanada,not many but some.Chill Dude and hug your wife while you can still afford to. Upper

 

[boar slayer]

a trip to hunterliggit is 600 miles round trip plus a tank of fuel while hunting .estimate 60 gallons of fuel @3.50 a gallon $210 plus misc $150 so about $350 just to go out to hunt .now do this 4 times thats $1400 even splitting this with a buddie figure $600 to $700 a piece to go hunt 4 times and most likely not getting a pig. but you do get to enjoy the outdoors . i have hunted public land many times and i know why its public its mostly land that no one wanted because its not prime grazing or farmland little water or extremly rough terrain most animals are going to be found in prime habitat which is mostly private and lets face the true ugly reality everything costs to much i do taxidermy and do hunts on a ranch to mount a boar from skinning its cape off to final completion takes about 8+ hours and if form needs to be altered and a couple more form with jaws $82 tan hide $75 eyes and other suff $50 that ads up to $207 so take that off what your mount costs and that is what we make i dont make as much as the mechanic i take my car to or the plumber or the electrition i dont think i ever took a vowe of poverty and i belive taxidermists should be able to make as much an hour as a mechanic or a electrition etc i think that would be fair the electrition i talked to last weekend at wister told me he charges $75 an hour my mechanic gets $65 iget maybe $40 plus paying the bills out of that then the guided hunt $600 up at 430 am done at 7 pm a 15 hour day maybe 5 hours the next for a total of 20 hours of hard work at thirty dollars an hour minus expenses some people who wait tables make more $8hr plus tips 6 tables hour $4 tip each $30 hour id make more waiting tables at dennys

 

[Speckmisser]

I think we're mostly saying the same thing, 7mag. If you feel that the hunts are too expensive for you, and you choose not to pay it... then that's it, isn't it? You made your statement and your choice.

It's worth it to some people, though; and as long as it is, the prices will stay out of your reach. To be honest, many of them are priced beyond what I am willing to pay too, even if I could afford it.

So I don't hunt with them.

I don't really see much point griping about it, though. Heck, I'd love to go to Canada on a caribou hunt, but when the cost doubled in two years from $2500 to $5k, I opted out. That's too rich for my blood. But they still sell out their hunts every season.

Sooner or later, and maybe it's sooner, the market will max out. It's not likely to go down, but maybe it'll stop rising for a while. Will that make it better for hunters on a budget? Nope. But here's the thing about that. Nobody cares if they've priced the "little guy" out of the market, and why should they, honestly? They don't need him.

I guess I'm just not sure I understand why that's a problem for some people. I don't get the thinking behind this whole, "I don't want to pay your prices, so they're too high."

Are they wrong to price their hunts so high? Why? It's their business.

It's like people are supposed to be entitled to "budget" pig hunts? Why is that?

I'm not singling you out, 7mag, as there are many voices singing the same song. Maybe it's just a lamentation... a song of grieving to let it out of your systems? Or does anyone think that something really needs to be done about it... and if so, what is that something?

 

[SDHNTR]

Supply and demand aside, do the math. Lets say the guide gets $500 a pig. Lets say it takes him an average of 1 full day (2 half day hunts) to get a hunter filled out.

Fuel driving around the ranch and highway to and from town. Easily $40-50/day.
Pay to the rancher for the kill fee. $100-150 each.
Pay to any guides or subguides. $50-100/ day.
Bonding and Insurance. ????? I have no idea but I'm sure it's a lot.
Vet bills and food for dogs. $1000-5000 a year easy.
Annual maintance (registration, insurance, breakdowns) on truck, quads, ect. $2000-3000 a year conservatively.

It all adds up. Daily expenses alone you are talking about at least $200-250 per pig. Figure it takes 12 hours of hunting on average and at best the guide makes $16-21 an hour before recurring expenses. Chump change. Now factor in all the ongoing expenses and there aint much profit in it at all.

It honestly shocks me that hog hunts are as cheap as they are. It's the best hunting bargain in the west for 90%+ success rates and real hunting of wild animals. You guys who say it's only worth $300 or so to you either are way behind the times or just don't like hunting hogs much.

 

[7magHunter]

QUOTE (upper @ Jan 7 2008, 08:22 PM)

&
7-Mag,the reality is you are pissssssed you can't afford a pig hunt.I can not afford a govenors hunt.I am sure there are people that are pisssssed at you cause they can not afford a trip to Ensanada,not many but some.Chill Dude and hug your wife while you can still afford to. Upper

DUDE!!!!! hit the next wave.

#1 You don't know what I can and cannot afford!
#2 I live in Woodland Hills Ca where do you live?
#3 I have my own company, who do you work for?
#4 A trip to Ensenada is cheaper than pig hunting read my post again!
#5 I use my money wise, and don't waste it hunting cornered wild pigs.
#6 leave my wife out of this !

Now what's your next question DUDE?