Guided hunts - are prices to high?

[7magHunter]

QUOTE (cam188 @ Jan 12 2008, 09:52 PM)

Or a house in Los Angeles 800,000 I don't but people pay what they have to.

Just my 2 cents...

C'mon again apples and oranges!
You guys like to burn $800 on a pig is fine with me, but don't tell me that it's a "FAIR DEAL" in what book?
You can't compare a house in Ca to a pig hunt, one is a necessity and the other one a hobby, no one here hunts because needs food or lives in a cave, only because of sport.
If you hunt pig for food your wasting money, just go to your local supermarket and buy $800 worth of pork and your done for the year trust me!

 

[Speckmisser]

7mag.

Again, this isn't personal at all, OK. But really, brother...

What you're asking is for everyone else to base their values on yours. You have offered nothing else by way of a solution or alternative.

If it's too rich for your blood, deal yourself out. Do something else. Hunt public land. Make friends with landowners. Or take up crochet.

But all you're doing now is kinda making yourself look silly.

Words to the wise.

 

[scr83jp]

QUOTE (rwlittle @ Jan 5 2008, 09:52 AM)

I agree with you SDHUNTER, If you shop right, you can find a good deal.

which leads me to the next....

I have been thinking of booking a trip to the great state of Texas to take advantage of the cheap pig hunts they offer. It may be worthwile; not necessarily cheaper, but a worthwhile experience none the less.

Let me see.. this is the cheapest time of the year to buy airline tickets.. I have heard on the news that current ticket prices are about 1/3 to 1/4 of their usual rates. I heard on NPR that airbus and jetblue are offering $20 tickets!!!!

With a cheap airline ticket, and a $200 - $300 hunt fee at most Texas hog hunting places, it could be a very "worthwhile" experience. Not sure of the cost to ship a butchered/frozen hog back home though.

Just my 2 cents...

You've got to research the texas hunts very well an acquaintence went to TX for a hunt on a big ranch it was "300 fenced acres" the "Huge Hogs" were 65 pounders,he had to buy a big bag of corn,no fee to hunt just $255 for room & board for a 3 day hunt. It was a ripoff some guys came from UT to varmint hunt and never saw a varmint on the ranch they were taken to.It'd be cheaper to go to the Big Horn Canyon Ranch in Moreno Valley,CA it you don't get a hog you just pay a hunt fee do a goggle search on the Big Horn Canyon Ranch it's not far from where I live.I read in The Blue Press(Dillon) about a group of AZ Wardens who booked a hunt there and had a great time.A lot of my fellow LE friends have archery hunted russian crosses,goats & sheep there.When I was employed I got around in S Calif a lot and located prime game ,bird & predator hunting areas plus I have friends who've kept me abreast of information on other species locations.

 

[chickenfried]

What's fair got to do with the price of something. While the prices might be too high for me, if they can get someone to pay those prices why wouldn't they charge that amount?

 

[Birdi23nls]

Where have I been? I've been trying to catch up for the past 45 minutes and had to take a couple of breaks. I'm going to have to finish reading all of these posts later.

Because I have not read all of the post, I don't know if this has been mentioned, but many of these guided hunts, I don't even consider actual hunting. You’re paying the guide to do the hunting for you; all you do is pull the trigger. Many of these guides know the location of the pigs (alfalfa field or something like that) they take you for a walk to make it seem like a fair chase hunt then take you to where the pigs are so you can pull the trigger.

I'm not saying that every outfit is like this, in fact, I know that not all of them are that way. But let’s be honest, money buys trophies. I'm not convinced that this is completely ethical. Who do you think kills all of these monster bucks in Mexico, the Strip, etc. Guys that have money (governor tags, stuff like that). Should their names go in the record books just because they walked to the blind or whatever and pulled the trigger? I don't know. I can tell you this, I have a hard time going to the pheasant club and paying $20-$25 a bird. Every time I pull the trigger, I think "there goes $20” It takes the fun out of it for me, it takes the hunt out of it and that is what I enjoy.

I would gladly pay a trespass fee to hunt, but hundreds or thousands of dollars to pull the trigger, no thank you.

Again, I do know that all hunts are not this way, and if you pay to hunt, right on, but many situations, in my opinion, this is not the case.

 

[7magHunter]

QUOTE (Speckmisser @ Jan 14 2008, 08:52 PM)http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=953557

7mag.

Again, this isn't personal at all, OK. But really, brother...

What you're asking is for everyone else to base their values on yours. You have offered nothing else by way of a solution or alternative.

If it's too rich for your blood, deal yourself out. Do something else. Hunt public land. Make friends with landowners. Or take up crochet.

But all you're doing now is kinda making yourself look silly.

Words to the wise.

Because I disagree with some comments or opinions it doesn't make myself silly, what do you want me to say?
that whatever you guys think is that way or no way, I respect everyones opinion, I just don't agree with some!
Isn't different opinions what's ol about?

The facts are that no one here is gonna stop paying high prices because of me say so.
So why getting ol heated up for nothing!
Go out there and enjoy your hunts

 

[jackrabbit]

So what in fact is your point 7mag? Anyone trying to run a business is going to keep raising prices until people stop buying at those prices. It has absolutely nothing to do with the concept of "fair".

I only hunt public land, because I like the challenge and the great feeling of success against incredible odds. I buy my food at the grocery store for less than the price of fuel that it takes to hunt.

I might someday pay an access fee for a place like Tejon or some other private place along the central coast (unguided), but even those fees turn me off because I think of what else I could buy with the money, and for me it is about being in the field, not the harvest -- but I might pay a fee for access to a ranch with lots of pigs on it. I am not interested in any hunt where the odds of harvest are very high due to incredible numbers, or someone telling me exactly where to post myself and pull the trigger -- even if the pigs are wary and still hard to get a shot. Like the post above, I don't want to be out there just to finish my hunt early and think, well, there went a few hundred dollars. Even when pheasant were as plentiful as ground squirrels back in the '60's here in the valley, I never shot one early in the day (just chased them) because I did not want to end my day with two pheasants in just 30 minutes -- I could have gone to the grocery store much easier than that, and I would not have had much shooting in either! Would I pay for a pheasant hunt now -- probably not, unless I was with young hunters who never scored on game before. But I think that is part of the equation of what people will pay for a hunt -- if they never scored on public land at all, then they are likely to pay the going rate to score at least once, then maybe move toward public land later -- or not! Have you been spending a lot of time and money hunting FHL, Los Padres Forest, Upper Cottonwood, New Idria, Coalinga area BLM, Carrizo Plains, etc?

But I still do not get your original point, unless it was just to whine -- fair has nothing to do with anything private (talk to DFG about pig tag fees if you want to argue fair price for public). In the private sector prices will go as high as people will pay, period, nothing fair about it. So, are you just whining?

 

[7magHunter]

QUOTE (jackrabbit @ Jan 15 2008, 04:04 PM)

So what in fact is your point 7mag? Anyone trying to run a business is going to keep raising prices until people stop buying at those prices. It has absolutely nothing to do with the concept of "fair".

I only hunt public land, because I like the challenge and the great feeling of success against incredible odds. I buy my food at the grocery store for less than the price of fuel that it takes to hunt.

I might someday pay an access fee for a place like Tejon or some other private place along the central coast (unguided), but even those fees turn me off because I think of what else I could buy with the money, and for me it is about being in the field, not the harvest -- but I might pay a fee for access to a ranch with lots of pigs on it. I am not interested in any hunt where the odds of harvest are very high due to incredible numbers, or someone telling me exactly where to post myself and pull the trigger -- even if the pigs are wary and still hard to get a shot. Like the post above, I don't want to be out there just to finish my hunt early and think, well, there went a few hundred dollars. Even when pheasant were as plentiful as ground squirrels back in the '60's here in the valley, I never shot one early in the day (just chased them) because I did not want to end my day with two pheasants in just 30 minutes -- I could have gone to the grocery store much easier than that, and I would not have had much shooting in either! Would I pay for a pheasant hunt now -- probably not, unless I was with young hunters who never scored on game before. But I think that is part of the equation of what people will pay for a hunt -- if they never scored on public land at all, then they are likely to pay the going rate to score at least once, then maybe move toward public land later -- or not! Have you been spending a lot of time and money hunting FHL, Los Padres Forest, Upper Cottonwood, New Idria, Coalinga area BLM, Carrizo Plains, etc?

But I still do not get your original point, unless it was just to whine -- fair has nothing to do with anything private (talk to DFG about pig tag fees if you want to argue fair price for public). In the private sector prices will go as high as people will pay, period, nothing fair about it. So, are you just whining?

Yes I'm whining!
Are you satisfied now?
I hope this help you to sleep tonight!

 

[7magHunter]

..

 

[jackrabbit]

thanx for the clarification 7mag, just wanted to be sure I was not missing the original point since this thread has gotten a lot of other elements put into it. I don't feel much different than you when it comes right down to it. We sorely need better hunting resources and productive game management on PUBLIC lands these days, because it is not like the 50 years ago when family farmers and ranchers were wide open to let strangers hunt their land. But we still have to acknowledge that since then, there has been DDT (wiped out pheasants), clean farming (no cover), endangered species (no cover or lose your right to farm your own land), and most of all -- god awful liability lawsuits for everything you can imagine for anything that might happen on your private property-- so either deny access or lease hunting out to someone who will accept the liability and insurance. The way California is continuing to get populated it won't be long before huntable land and hunt opportunities shrink even further.

When I first left this area in the '70's to work in SoCal, I could target shoot anywhere in the Angeles Forest, there were almost no "no shooting areas", and the Cajon Pass area, Wrightwood, and the whole Antlelope Valley were wide open to wide open hunting and shooting. You could go up Azuza canyon and all the ridges in between and have blast, for free. But urbanization changed all of that before I left SoCal in 1997. Oh, and Santa Clarita did not exist as an urban area, and I used to cruise up from Long Beach to Castaic Lake in just 50 minutes, and I could spend the night for free in front of the forebay on that old dirt lot all night long and fish the forebay as a walk-in all night long, then drive home, shower, and go to work. Oh, and gas was not much over a dollar/gallon.

I know there is a lot of attention now to providing incentives to private landowners to manage their land for wild game and hunting (for their benefit of course), but I sure hope all of the griping and hollering about private property does not distract us from preserving our abilities to hunt/shoot/travel on public property and improving habitat on remaining public property.

My bias is toward improving public property opportunites. And yes indeed, I will sleep better tonight.

 

[rnjwildhoghunts]

OK, I can speak from the guide/owner point of view here. There is alot of complaining about what we charge for a hunt these days. In reality the $600 that is charged is not just for the hog itself. You guys have to take into consideration that we, and most, supply a cabin free of charge, so then we get into upkeep on the cabin including power, water and other issues. Then you have the upkeep of the property, we provide a shooting range that requires repair from time to time as well as other facilities that we provide for the hunters use. Now onto to the legal part of it. You guys don't think that these guides take you out for free, do you? They get paid just like you do at your jobs. Afterall they are the ones spending there time taking the hunters out to find the hogs, track the hogs and skin the hogs. Also you must take into account the cost of insurance these days, not just on the ranch but also on the vehicles used in the hunts. We can then move onto guide license, we must keep those up to date and current or we get a visit fron F&G. Almost forgot about the surety bond that the State of California requires that ALL guides have with their license. What about the cost of fuel? We provide transportation all over the ranch and that takes up fuel with each hunt. What about advertisement, gotta get the word out about the hunts and the location? All these things add up and just as in any business the cost of doing business has gone up a great deal in the past few years. In reality, you guys can figure that we are only making about $200 to $300 off each hog instead of the $600 that you are paying, and in my opinion that is a pretty good deal for a great weekend of hunting with good people.

 

[hatchet1]

and, lets not forget about having to pay the land owner his fair share,if you are not fortunate enough to
own your own land,and you just guide on the property,you sure aint gonna get rich,but you should have
alot of good times

 

[cam188]

QUOTE (cam188 @ Jan 12 2008, 09:52 PM)

Or a house in Los Angeles 800,000 I don't but people pay what they have to.

Just my 2 cents...

QUOTE (7magHunter @ Jan 14 2008, 04:18 PM)

C'mon again apples and oranges!
You guys like to burn $800 on a pig is fine with me, but don't tell me that it's a "FAIR DEAL" in what book?
You can't compare a house in Ca to a pig hunt, one is a necessity and the other one a hobby, no one here hunts because needs food or lives in a cave, only because of sport.
If you hunt pig for food your wasting money, just go to your local supermarket and buy $800 worth of pork and your done for the year trust me!

Not apples and oranges as an example of supply and demand. What a market will handle. Oh and owning a house is not a nessecity. For food I agree go to the grocery store and buy meat if that is just what you are after. I like the associaton of catching my own even if in the long run it costs 100 times as much.

800 is not a fair deal. But if you don't want to pay it then whats the issue? I am going to be doing a hunt at Choppers. It is a great deal for what it is and if I come home empty handed I went out for the fun of it. I am using this pig hunt I go on as a learning exp. to be able to hunt pigs on public land. Also to meet some of the guys on here and learn from there exp. so there is more to hunting than the final kill.

Now would I spend 15,000 on an elk hunt no not even if I could afford it.

 

[7magHunter]

This topic was about Unguided pig hunts fees, who brought up the guided issue?

Guided hunts fees are understandable, these outfitters are making a living and they can charge whatever they want for their services, what I don't agree is a $400+ for a trespass fee unguided.


QUOTE

QUOTE(cam188
A house is not a necessity???

Where do you live? Inside the car?

 

[rnjwildhoghunts]

QUOTE (boarhunter67 @ Jan 9 2008, 07:58 AM)

Don't you think something is wrong when a non-native nuisance animal is considered a game animal?! Do you not know why we have the DFG in the first place?! You think Fish and Game Commission's where created for the hunters?! We are here to restore nature to is natural state, we are conservationist and I will be damned if I ever thought of conserving a non-native animal. .

That explains why DFG seems to do whatever it can to make hunting more difficult for hunters in CA. Chopper, they also slaughtered about a few hundred hogs here in Kern because they were tired of people coming into the water district and hunting them. They have also been killing off whitetails coming across from Northern CA.

QUOTE

I don't see why they would ever change that, unless its to increase the price of a tag..

Just a few years ago you could get a book of 5 pig tags for $7.50. In one year they went from $7.50 for 5 pig tags to $17.50 per tag.

As far as guided prices being too high, I think why everyone thinks that is because they went up so fast. I remember five years ago I could get on several ranches for $100-$200 and shoot a pig. This was unguided, but a guided hunt back then was around $300, at least around here. I know several land owners and guides. The main difference in price is two things. First most of the guides I know back then had a real job and guiding was a sideline to make some extra money. Ranchers I know had cattle and other sources on income. Now the same guides decided it was more fun to not work and guide all the time and if they raise their rates they could do that. The ranchers raised their rates similarly. I'm not saying it's wrong. A person has a right to make a living anyway he wants if he can make a go of it, and most of my friends who guide do quite well. Most have newer trucks than I. It's just different than it was just a short while ago. Back then if their truck broke down, their main income from their main job would pay for it or their wife's job would pay for it to be fixed. That's why guides hunts were mainly on weekends. Now, with many guides having no other income, every expense has to be passed on or they aren't going to be able to do it full time and live comfortably.
Just my 2cents.

Not trying to go too far back but here is a few, also may try reading the forum topic!! Do you realize that by law the land owner is suppose to have insurance to cover you being on their property? If you think your car insurance is high try that one!

 

[jackrabbit]

7mag -- if this topic is about "unguided pig hunt fees" as you just posted, then why did you title this topic "Guided Hunts - are prices too high?". Got me confused enough to wonder what you are all about here dude.

PS edit: Whoops, my apologies to you 7mag, as I backed out of this thread I noticed that you were not the one that started and titled this thread -- it was another JHO member and you jumped in shortly after. Again, my apologies. But my comments on the bottom of page 3 express my views about when I might pay for trespass fees.

 

[Rancho Loco]

QUOTE (7magHunter @ Jan 16 2008, 03:56 PM)

This topic was about Unguided pig hunts fees, who brought up the guided issue?

Guided hunts fees are understandable, these outfitters are making a living and they can charge whatever they want for their services, what I don't agree is a $400+ for a trespass fee unguided.

What????

 

[spectr17]

What is the frequency Kenneth?

 

[hatchet1]

"dont grab my hand god $%^& *&, lean into it, and choke yourself!!"

 

[7magHunter]

My mistake!

This thread was about guided pig hunts after all, and I was focusing more on unguided or a trespass fee.
So anyway guided hunts are different when you take in consideration the guide service, cabin etc,
my point was more with the unguided hunts which I still believe it's overpriced.
I can use an example The Tejon Ranch, it's unguided and overpriced.