HOGHUNTER714
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I have to say that I love a good "Spot & Stalk". That has to be my favorite. But, I am not opposed to running dogs and the chase and baying can be a lot of fun.
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1SoCalHunter
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Spot and stalk over here as well, hey hoghunter714, keep me posted on that guided pig hunt.
My favorite way to do it like the first hog I took with the .260. I was in my backyard at the bar-b-q with a few buddies shootin the bull when one of them said "Hey, check out that hog coming up the creek." I retrieved my rifle from the house, sat down in a lawn chair, rested on the fence and SMOKED him at about 150 yards. Of course, having one wander through my yard and getting caught by the dogs and cornered in the garage was pretty easy too. I awoke to the dogs barking about 4:30 one morning, went out to investigate and found 'em fighting a hog in the garage(carport)
Richard McCullough
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Spot and Stalk here also, Never had been a fan of using dogs, unless you are hunting with just a knife then that i a hole diferent story.
boarbuster
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alot of how i hunt depends on where i hunt. i love a good spot and stalk and hunt this way 60% of the time. the other 40% i can be found on public property running dogs.
Boar Tracks CA
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I've hunted with dogs and spot and stalk. I get the most enjoyment from seeing my game at a distance and hunting it to within range, with my prey not aware that I'm there. I guess I've been in the military to long.
Speckmisser
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I picked Spot and Stalk too, but I won't knock the dog hunters.
Kick,
Rifleman and I have emailed back and forth many times about my dog hunt and the opinion I formed. While I still don't think it's for me, I am now willing to believe that not every dog hunt winds up like mine did. I think it depends a lot on the kind of dogs you're using and the handlers.
I still remember some of the deer drives back home, and the way I felt listening to the hounds run. I'll be the first to admit there's nothing else like it. If a hog hunt with hounds could be like that, I'd sure understand the thrill a lot better.
But I'm probably done with it. I KNOW I'll never pay to do it again anyway.
Now, if I could get a retriever that would fetch them out of the canyons after I shoot them ...
Kick,
Rifleman and I have emailed back and forth many times about my dog hunt and the opinion I formed. While I still don't think it's for me, I am now willing to believe that not every dog hunt winds up like mine did. I think it depends a lot on the kind of dogs you're using and the handlers.
I still remember some of the deer drives back home, and the way I felt listening to the hounds run. I'll be the first to admit there's nothing else like it. If a hog hunt with hounds could be like that, I'd sure understand the thrill a lot better.
But I'm probably done with it. I KNOW I'll never pay to do it again anyway.
Now, if I could get a retriever that would fetch them out of the canyons after I shoot them ...
One Track
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Spot and stalk for sure. I don't think I would enjoy a guided hunt with dogs. HOWEVER, if I was the dog handler, that would be different. I imagine that running your own dogs would be a real thrill. Yes, that would be cool.
RIFLEMAN, are you runnning your OWN dogs? Or, are you hunting with a guide?
RIFLEMAN, are you runnning your OWN dogs? Or, are you hunting with a guide?
I'm with Onetrack on this one
. I would run the dogs if they were mine (and I trained them) and I did it on public property after lots of scouting and time in the field. Never in a million years would I pay a dime for a guided hunt with dogs. Nothing against those that would otherwise.
Hey how about a third choice, scoot and shoot. That is cruuising around on private roads until you see a bunch of hogs, then chasing them over plowed fields and dirt roads. Most of the time they get away into cover, but once on a while you can cut 'em of at the pass, jump out, load, and shoot. Fast. Because it only takes a few seconds for them to slip into a gully or some brush and be gone.
That's how I ended up getting one on my guided hunt. Another guy got his by stalking a big boar sleeping in a shallow cave we spotted from across a canyon. A third guy got his with dogs in the willows along the Salinas river. All three were exciting and fun, and I would have been happy with any method. But I agree spot and stalk is the classic.
That's how I ended up getting one on my guided hunt. Another guy got his by stalking a big boar sleeping in a shallow cave we spotted from across a canyon. A third guy got his with dogs in the willows along the Salinas river. All three were exciting and fun, and I would have been happy with any method. But I agree spot and stalk is the classic.
Kick,
As Speck indicated, we have emailed each other about his nightmarish experience. I do not blame him for forming the initial opinion of hunting hogs with dogs, but have faith in him and his ability to remain open minded about the sport.
Why don't you think you would like hunting with dogs? Is it solely because of what Speck witnessed? I have caught a few hundred hogs in my lifetime so I would like to contrast his experiences with my own. Allow me to summarize my experiences with my dogs...
*Races have lasted from ten yards to fifteen miles (no, I am not exagerating. One boar ran seven miles as the crow flies to Highway 20, then turned around and ran eight miles back the way he came before my dogs stopped him once and for all. The dogs bayed him three times during this race, but could not get him to stop long enough for us to get there.) The average race is approximately three hundred yards.
*Races have lasted from five minutes to eleven hours. (Ask wildlife designer about the eight hour race he witnessed.) The average race is ten to fifteen minutes of full pursuit.
*Most races end with a bayed hog. I have had as many as twelve races in a single year end without catching the hog and as few as three. Last year, I bayed 50, lost 3.
*Most hogs have varied between 80 and 423 pounds, but average approximately 180-225 pounds.
*Most hogs are mature males with an average tusk length of two or more inches. I have only caught about forty-five sows in my entire life.
*My baydogs have grabbed and caught only six hogs in my lifetime. I detest this and discourage my dogs from doing so. Not only is it dangerous for the dogs, but it takes away the hog's "integrity" (for lack of a better word.) I like baying hogs, not subduing them to exhaustion or chewing them to pieces.
*About fifty percent of the hogs I have bayed were caught, tied and released to be run again. In 1998, I only killed about 10% of the hogs I bayed. The rest were released unharmed. When my dogs have grabbed them or othewise cut them, I have sometimes stapled up their gashes and doctored them up with Betadine or cut powder before letting them go.
*I hunt on private property about 95% of the time with hog populations ranging from scarce to epidemic proportions.
*I love and treasure 100% of the hunts regardless of whether or not the outcome results in a bayed hog. When the dogs and I are safely back home, that is the most important kind of success I could ever ask for.
One Track,
Yes, I raise, train and hunt my own dogs. As I am sure you can imagine, it is a major commitment and a serious undertaking to do so. I hunt or exercise my dogs about 2-3 times a week, regardless of whether or not I have the time, inclination, money or strength to do so. There have been many days or nights where I was too exhausted to go out, but I did anyway because of my obligations to my dogs. Dogs are not like your favorite shotgun or rifle that can be put in the gun safe until you can go hunting again; they live to hunt and must remain in my kennel when not out hunting I feel that I have the ethical obligation to see that they not only get plenty of exercise and time away from being cooped up in the kennel, but to also be able to pursue the animals that they were bred to pursue. But as you said, few things in life can rival the satisfaction in seeing a dog that you bred for, raised and trained become the amazing athletes that they are capable of being.
I am not talking about breeding two pitbull-type dogs together or picking up a mean looking dog from the pound and turning it loose on a hog that you see. I am talking about breeding, raising, training and hunting purebred hounds to strike, run and bay a hog, strike, run and tree a bear or cold trail, run and tree a bobcat.
The excitement provided by running and baying a hog is a very awe-inspiring feeling. Unlike most hoghunters that use dogs, I hunt with open mouthed dogs. This means that my dogs will bark whenever they smell a hog, not just when they have one bayed. The hog knows that he is being pursued and will do everything in his power to ensure his survival. He may run, for he can reach speeds faster than a deer and can run through brush or fences like they aren't even there. He may fight, for in his mouth are two daggers sharpened to a razor's edge. There simply is no telling what a hog might do when pursued by hounds.
To hear the excited barking of the dogs as they run the hog across a hillside is something that I feel very privileged to be a part of. You can tell what each one of the dogs are doing by the way they bark. The sound of the bay is unimaginable as you begin to walk towards them. The closer you get, the louder the sound of the baying dogs and the more excited you become. The sight of the dogs surrounding a hog-in his most intimidating defensive posture he can muster-is something best seen for one's self and not described here. Facing the hog with only a good pack of dogs, a pistol, knife or rope instills such a primal sense that I don't know how best to put it into words. At that moment is when I feel most alive and most thankful for my existence here on earth.
I refuse to condemn other lawful methods, but if push comes to shove, will readily defend the merits of houndhunting against any other method. I have hunted with hounds for far too long to think anything else other than that someone who regards hunting hogs with open mouthed dogs as unfair, unchallenging or unsporting is basing their opinion on ignorance or not enough facts.
I hope that I don't come across as ranting or preaching to you all, but as you can all see by now, I am very passionate about the "marketing" of my sport of choice!!!
As Speck indicated, we have emailed each other about his nightmarish experience. I do not blame him for forming the initial opinion of hunting hogs with dogs, but have faith in him and his ability to remain open minded about the sport.
Why don't you think you would like hunting with dogs? Is it solely because of what Speck witnessed? I have caught a few hundred hogs in my lifetime so I would like to contrast his experiences with my own. Allow me to summarize my experiences with my dogs...
*Races have lasted from ten yards to fifteen miles (no, I am not exagerating. One boar ran seven miles as the crow flies to Highway 20, then turned around and ran eight miles back the way he came before my dogs stopped him once and for all. The dogs bayed him three times during this race, but could not get him to stop long enough for us to get there.) The average race is approximately three hundred yards.
*Races have lasted from five minutes to eleven hours. (Ask wildlife designer about the eight hour race he witnessed.) The average race is ten to fifteen minutes of full pursuit.
*Most races end with a bayed hog. I have had as many as twelve races in a single year end without catching the hog and as few as three. Last year, I bayed 50, lost 3.
*Most hogs have varied between 80 and 423 pounds, but average approximately 180-225 pounds.
*Most hogs are mature males with an average tusk length of two or more inches. I have only caught about forty-five sows in my entire life.
*My baydogs have grabbed and caught only six hogs in my lifetime. I detest this and discourage my dogs from doing so. Not only is it dangerous for the dogs, but it takes away the hog's "integrity" (for lack of a better word.) I like baying hogs, not subduing them to exhaustion or chewing them to pieces.
*About fifty percent of the hogs I have bayed were caught, tied and released to be run again. In 1998, I only killed about 10% of the hogs I bayed. The rest were released unharmed. When my dogs have grabbed them or othewise cut them, I have sometimes stapled up their gashes and doctored them up with Betadine or cut powder before letting them go.
*I hunt on private property about 95% of the time with hog populations ranging from scarce to epidemic proportions.
*I love and treasure 100% of the hunts regardless of whether or not the outcome results in a bayed hog. When the dogs and I are safely back home, that is the most important kind of success I could ever ask for.
One Track,
Yes, I raise, train and hunt my own dogs. As I am sure you can imagine, it is a major commitment and a serious undertaking to do so. I hunt or exercise my dogs about 2-3 times a week, regardless of whether or not I have the time, inclination, money or strength to do so. There have been many days or nights where I was too exhausted to go out, but I did anyway because of my obligations to my dogs. Dogs are not like your favorite shotgun or rifle that can be put in the gun safe until you can go hunting again; they live to hunt and must remain in my kennel when not out hunting I feel that I have the ethical obligation to see that they not only get plenty of exercise and time away from being cooped up in the kennel, but to also be able to pursue the animals that they were bred to pursue. But as you said, few things in life can rival the satisfaction in seeing a dog that you bred for, raised and trained become the amazing athletes that they are capable of being.
I am not talking about breeding two pitbull-type dogs together or picking up a mean looking dog from the pound and turning it loose on a hog that you see. I am talking about breeding, raising, training and hunting purebred hounds to strike, run and bay a hog, strike, run and tree a bear or cold trail, run and tree a bobcat.
The excitement provided by running and baying a hog is a very awe-inspiring feeling. Unlike most hoghunters that use dogs, I hunt with open mouthed dogs. This means that my dogs will bark whenever they smell a hog, not just when they have one bayed. The hog knows that he is being pursued and will do everything in his power to ensure his survival. He may run, for he can reach speeds faster than a deer and can run through brush or fences like they aren't even there. He may fight, for in his mouth are two daggers sharpened to a razor's edge. There simply is no telling what a hog might do when pursued by hounds.
To hear the excited barking of the dogs as they run the hog across a hillside is something that I feel very privileged to be a part of. You can tell what each one of the dogs are doing by the way they bark. The sound of the bay is unimaginable as you begin to walk towards them. The closer you get, the louder the sound of the baying dogs and the more excited you become. The sight of the dogs surrounding a hog-in his most intimidating defensive posture he can muster-is something best seen for one's self and not described here. Facing the hog with only a good pack of dogs, a pistol, knife or rope instills such a primal sense that I don't know how best to put it into words. At that moment is when I feel most alive and most thankful for my existence here on earth.
I refuse to condemn other lawful methods, but if push comes to shove, will readily defend the merits of houndhunting against any other method. I have hunted with hounds for far too long to think anything else other than that someone who regards hunting hogs with open mouthed dogs as unfair, unchallenging or unsporting is basing their opinion on ignorance or not enough facts.
I hope that I don't come across as ranting or preaching to you all, but as you can all see by now, I am very passionate about the "marketing" of my sport of choice!!!
Rifleman & Speck,
Thanks for all the great and detailed info! My views were based on (1) reading a fair amount of people's experiences (both positive and negative), (2) Speck's story, (3) watching videos of hunting with dogs, and (4) it just doesn't seem as fun to me.
But of course everyone has different likes. I also don't think I'd really enjoy bird hunting. Well, maybe turkey. While it's possible I'd like it, odds are not. And it's probably not even that I would dislike it, just not enjoy it as much as other forms of hunting. Same with a guide. But that's just me.
I'll probably end up trying it all eventually just to see.
Thanks for all the great and detailed info! My views were based on (1) reading a fair amount of people's experiences (both positive and negative), (2) Speck's story, (3) watching videos of hunting with dogs, and (4) it just doesn't seem as fun to me.
But of course everyone has different likes. I also don't think I'd really enjoy bird hunting. Well, maybe turkey. While it's possible I'd like it, odds are not. And it's probably not even that I would dislike it, just not enjoy it as much as other forms of hunting. Same with a guide. But that's just me.
I'll probably end up trying it all eventually just to see.
HOGHUNTER714
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Rifleman,
I enjoyed reading your comment. I have "Experienced" what you are talking about and I can honestly say, that I love it!. Maybe because I dont own my own hounds that its not my passion (Like Spot & Stalk) but, I have ran dogs about a half a dozen times, but the times that I did, it sure was a blast and would LOVE to do it again. So, I do understand where your coming from.
I enjoyed reading your comment. I have "Experienced" what you are talking about and I can honestly say, that I love it!. Maybe because I dont own my own hounds that its not my passion (Like Spot & Stalk) but, I have ran dogs about a half a dozen times, but the times that I did, it sure was a blast and would LOVE to do it again. So, I do understand where your coming from.
Speckmisser
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Hey, I've figured it out. Rifleman, you'll just have to take me and Kick out there and show us what a dog hunt SHOULD be.
MikenSoCo
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I've always wondered how you keep the dogs from entering a neighbors property who might not care for the hunting world or the chase across their land. I've heard rumors of people killing or keeping the dogs, is this accurate? My success rate suffers because I don't use dogs, and I have thought about using them. What experiences have you houndsmen had with neighbors?
HOGHUNTER714,
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I will be the first to acknowledge that the saying, "Different strokes for different folks" is indeed true. As such, I can't promise or guarantee that you would find hunting with dogs your passion if they were your very own, though I strongly believe it would enhance your enjoyment and satisfaction with the experience significantly.
Speck,
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
You've got a great idea there. I would be happy to take you and Kick out; hopefully my dogs will be up to the pressure! I promised myself that I won't hog hunt anymore without suiting up my dogs in some professional vests that I put an order in for today. You'll find out why I made this promise in a story I'll post pretty soon. As soon as they get in, I will let you know.
MikenSoCo,
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
You raise a good question. The disposition of the neighbors and the position and direction of the race is an ever present concern. The best way to keep your dogs from crossing onto the neighbor's place is to:
a)ensure that you are hunting a significantly large piece of property. The colder nose and longer legs of a hound will require a larger piece of property than when hunting with silent, hot-nosed curs or shephards
b)know the habits of the hogs so that you might be able to predict where they are inclined to run and cut them off if necessary
c)avoid hunting near the property line
I have permission to hunt some private property where the hogs will always line out for the neighbors place. I found this out the hard way one morning when my dogs ran a hog off of a stock pond and onto the neighbors property. I topped a hill and could hear them bayed. I walked down the hill and stood at the fence, listening to my dogs and wondering how to proceed. I was prepared to leave my gear (including my pistol) at the fence to go retrieve my dogs when the owner came racing up on a four wheeler. After an initially harsh and accusatory greeting, he calmed down, apologized and offered to give me a ride to go get my dogs. Despite listening to him brag about himself for about four hours afterwards in the hot sun, I was not able to sweet talk him into letting me hunt his property. Ever since, I have been careful where I hunt my dogs. I avoid that pond like the plague even though I know that hogs can reliably be found there.
You must thoroughly understand the laws that influence hunting with hounds. First, if your dogs do go onto someone else's property, you are allowed to enter that property (without firearms) in order to retrieve your dogs. If the owner lives on the property, I will always try to talk to them first. If you cannot contact the owner, you cannot be cited for trespassing because dogs obviously do not know when they are running across a neighbor's land. You are not obligated to wait for them to come to you, but can go after them. You must be in the act of RETRIEVING your dogs and not HUNTING with your dogs when on someone's land.
In most counties in California, landowners are not legally allowed to shoot the dogs unless they are caught in the act of harassing livestock. Yet, there have been incidents where dogs have been shot by landowners. I am fortunate enough to have not had a dog killed or otherwise wounded by landowners. Make sure your dogs are broke from barking at cattle, sheep, etc and have video footage of several occasions where your dogs ignored the presence of livestock for a possible court case against the landowner.
I have heard that dogs have been stolen, but this is less likely with landowners, and much more likely with other dog hunters. Make sure you have a collar with a nameplate (with your name, address and telephone number) and a tracking collar on your dog. Many landowners aren't familiar with radio telemetry technology and are suprised when you show up at their place asking for your dog. I would also suggest looking into some rumored new technology whereby a telemetry chip is injected into the dog.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I will be the first to acknowledge that the saying, "Different strokes for different folks" is indeed true. As such, I can't promise or guarantee that you would find hunting with dogs your passion if they were your very own, though I strongly believe it would enhance your enjoyment and satisfaction with the experience significantly.
Speck,
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
You've got a great idea there. I would be happy to take you and Kick out; hopefully my dogs will be up to the pressure! I promised myself that I won't hog hunt anymore without suiting up my dogs in some professional vests that I put an order in for today. You'll find out why I made this promise in a story I'll post pretty soon. As soon as they get in, I will let you know.
MikenSoCo,
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
You raise a good question. The disposition of the neighbors and the position and direction of the race is an ever present concern. The best way to keep your dogs from crossing onto the neighbor's place is to:
a)ensure that you are hunting a significantly large piece of property. The colder nose and longer legs of a hound will require a larger piece of property than when hunting with silent, hot-nosed curs or shephards
b)know the habits of the hogs so that you might be able to predict where they are inclined to run and cut them off if necessary
c)avoid hunting near the property line
I have permission to hunt some private property where the hogs will always line out for the neighbors place. I found this out the hard way one morning when my dogs ran a hog off of a stock pond and onto the neighbors property. I topped a hill and could hear them bayed. I walked down the hill and stood at the fence, listening to my dogs and wondering how to proceed. I was prepared to leave my gear (including my pistol) at the fence to go retrieve my dogs when the owner came racing up on a four wheeler. After an initially harsh and accusatory greeting, he calmed down, apologized and offered to give me a ride to go get my dogs. Despite listening to him brag about himself for about four hours afterwards in the hot sun, I was not able to sweet talk him into letting me hunt his property. Ever since, I have been careful where I hunt my dogs. I avoid that pond like the plague even though I know that hogs can reliably be found there.
You must thoroughly understand the laws that influence hunting with hounds. First, if your dogs do go onto someone else's property, you are allowed to enter that property (without firearms) in order to retrieve your dogs. If the owner lives on the property, I will always try to talk to them first. If you cannot contact the owner, you cannot be cited for trespassing because dogs obviously do not know when they are running across a neighbor's land. You are not obligated to wait for them to come to you, but can go after them. You must be in the act of RETRIEVING your dogs and not HUNTING with your dogs when on someone's land.
In most counties in California, landowners are not legally allowed to shoot the dogs unless they are caught in the act of harassing livestock. Yet, there have been incidents where dogs have been shot by landowners. I am fortunate enough to have not had a dog killed or otherwise wounded by landowners. Make sure your dogs are broke from barking at cattle, sheep, etc and have video footage of several occasions where your dogs ignored the presence of livestock for a possible court case against the landowner.
I have heard that dogs have been stolen, but this is less likely with landowners, and much more likely with other dog hunters. Make sure you have a collar with a nameplate (with your name, address and telephone number) and a tracking collar on your dog. Many landowners aren't familiar with radio telemetry technology and are suprised when you show up at their place asking for your dog. I would also suggest looking into some rumored new technology whereby a telemetry chip is injected into the dog.
