IDEAL ELK RIFLE

[340mag]

well we had a whats the minimum caliber for elk question and that got me to thinking about what you all think is the IDEAL elk caliber, now as anyone whose hunted elk will tell you , if the shots perfect almost anything works but what do you think is the IDEAL ELK rifle caliber (you don,t need to look further than my pen name to see my pick after 33 years of watching the results)
but whats your ideal caliber/rifle and WHY?
my pick was based on
(1)100% penetration from any angle
(2)bullet always expands but never blows apart even if shoulders hit
(3)more than 2000 ft lbs of energy out to 400yards
bullet of .260 or higher sectional density can be pushed to 2800fps plus velocity
(4)(250 grn bullet weight)
(5) bullet always exits for a good blood trail if the game fails to drop instantly (rare)
whats your requirements?

 

[usahunter]

I'm partial to my .338 win mag. 250 gr nosler has been very effective, savage w/syn. stock , lightweight and extremely accurate usahunter

 

[gangbanger]

I also currently use a .338, w/ 210 NP. Short barrel (21") and an effective brake-(my design). So far, out to 350yrds., no prob.- 7 shots, seven recoveries.
.340 WBY. is a great cart., but not many folks can handle the recoil. I like the avail. of the .338 for fact. selection and component cases. Yes, the .340 has more poop than the .338, but none of my beasts seemed to care.

 

[gangbanger]

Sorry, forgot to add my "Ideal"- To start: The weapon would weigh no more than 5lbs., the optics would have unlimited eye-relief, and a magnification range from 1x to 20x- no parralax or focus required (night vision optional).
The stock would conform to the shooters anchoring position, everytime, all the time. Just shoulder and shoot, regardless of the amount of clothing you were wearing at that time. The recoil would be equated to .22RF, just enough to let you know that it went off. Noise would be less, louder than a BB-gun but less than an actuall .22.
Cartridge would have a short case( less bolt throw), have a bullet diam. large enough to maintain a permanent entrance cavity regardless off fat thickness in target, and a large enough exit diameter( upon proper bullet performance), to "put your fist through". Cartidge would also have to have no more than 8" of drop @ 1000 yrds. with a sight in height of 2" high at 100yrds. Mandatory energy would have to yield 1500 ft./lbs. at 1000 yrds.
You asked for an ideal, here's my version.
In all seriousness, the .340 WBY , .338 Lapua, .338 Ultra, and a few wildcats would all fill the bill. Use what you like, and what you use well.

 

[Moose-Hunter]

I've never hunted elk, but I will someday, and when I do, I'll be hunting the elk in Alaska. But my ideal elk rifle would have to be my .338 Win. Mag. Just for the fact I'm comfortable shooting this gun and plus the area where Alaskan elk are located, there are plenty of brown bears to go around. I use Nosler Partition 210 grains now, but will switch to the 250's when I go on my elk hunt.

And my gun is a Winchester Model 70 classic stainless/synthetic with a Leupold VII 3x9 matte scope.

 

[gangbanger]

Hola que tal, Moose-Hunter
You like the .338, I like the .338. You shoot a Win. 70 Classic, so do I. You use 210 gr. NP, I do also. I DON'T get near brown bears, they're much bigger than I am and scare me. Huevos grandes, amigo. For elk, if you like, and your rifle likes, stay with the 210 gr. NP. I've never registered a complaint from any elk I chose.
Bears are a different story. Mabey a sawed-off 12 guage in a quick draw holster would work, I don't know. My theory is to use the 210's for elk, then , after your bull/cow is down, re-load to something heavier. I really don't know, a guide with a .50BMG? Good luck, let us know how things go.

 

[Moose-Hunter]

gangbanger,

Ah-ha! I knew I had a twin.

How does your .338 shoot with those Nosler 210's? I get awesome accuracy with those factory loads, which I'm impressed with to say the least. Have you tried the FailSafes at all? For some reason, my gun just wouldn't shoot those worth the darn.

 

[phurley]

I have taken several Bulls with a .300 Win mag with 180 gr. and 200 gr. Nosler Partition bullets, the combination is great, as would any .300 Mag. I am now hunting them with either a .340 Wby and 225 gr. North fork or Barnes XLC bullets, or my most recent project rifle a .358 STA with a 270 Gr. North Fork bullet at 3000 fps. I have taken a Bull with each. I hunt with a group of 13 hunters who all use a 7mm Rem and up except for one old died and wool .270 shooter. He is awesome with it, will not shoot past 200 yards, and comes in each year with his bull. Your ideal Elk rifle is what you are most confident in shooting. It is between you and the Elk, let the game begin.

Good shooting.

 

[340mag]

(now I used this answer on another tread but it fits here also)

Ive been hunting elk for about 33 years and with a 340 wby for about 25 years (both 225 and 250 grn bullets) now, and have lent the same rifle to several people to take shots at elk, theres very little differance in the performance between the two cartridges (338 and 340wby)(the 340 has maybe a 50 yard range advantage )but since almost all my and their shots/kills have been at under 300 yards I think youll find the 338 win and 225grn bullet to be an EXCELLENT choice from any angle or range (300-350 yards and under) just place your shot so it drives through both lungs just behind the front legs in the lower 1/2 of the chest and that elk will fall quickly (especialy if the far leg is also broken) I doubt that youll have any trouble , from almost any angle with that combo. my partners have made strait on frontal shots and texas heart shots(up the rear end) with always the same result (dead elk within 30 yards) while I prefer the 250 grn HORNADY bullets for their deeper penetration(I want EXIT WOUNDS) the 225 grn have worked very well also, and open up faster for quicker kills. btw don,t look for instant kills in most cases the ELK turn and start to run but dont get far if the far side leg is missed , the advantage these 338 dia. cartridges have over the 300 mags is much deeper penetration( if) standard bullets are used, allowing shots from almost any angle where the 300 mags with (standard bullets) are not good choices from a few angles.(the 300 mags bullets do tend to kill quickly if only lung shots are taken because the bullets tend to detonate in the lungs, tradeing massive dammage in the first 6-8" for a lack of penetration deeper in,where the heavier 338 dia. bullets tend to open slower and punch much deeper if the elk Ive dressed out are typical) the 338 win and 340 wby are some of the most reliable elk hunting calibers out there from my experance, so much so that of the guys I hunt with, almost all have started with other calibers and since switched to 338 win or 35 whelens just because they also see the consistantly excellent results the over 30cal bullets produce. what Im saying here is my experiances have shown the 300 mags kill quicker if only lung shots are taken but if the shot must be made from a rear angle driven from just infront of the hip into the heart/lung area or from the front smashing a lower leg to reach the heart/lung area the tougher/heavier .338 bullets have an advantage, but keep in mind good shot PLACEMENT is more important than the cartridge your useing

 

[gangbanger]

Hey Moose-Hunter,
I gotta tell you, (not to brag) I've been a gunsmith for over two decades now, have built quite a few rifles in the past(you name it), and have had the chance to hunt one or two animals in the past few years. My recent love ,for the past 7 years, is your rifle- Win.70, .338 (with a few personal touches). I LOVE the Fed. Premium, 210 gr. Nosler Partition. factory load. Depending on the lot. of ammo, it'll shoot 3- shot groups between .875" and .500" at 100 yrds. And it kicks less than an older Rem. 722, .308 that I dearly love.
My opinion is that, if you and your rifle like what you're both shooting,AND the bullets are of good construction, stick with 'em.My gut tells me you and I are "simpatico", regarding our calibers and bullet selection. Buy a case of your ammo( ask for a bulk discount), and practice with that lot. of ammo. Once you're intimate with those characteristics, your confidence will be huge, and anything within your range has no future. Bears still have me clueless ,and wetting myself at the thought. LOL
let me know, Gangbanger

 

[gangbanger]

To 340mag:
I am only a recent addition to this site, and fairly new to the computer world, so bear with me. First off, this is not a personal attack. I don't know you, or your habits. But I have to reply- some of your statements regarding hunting elk are way off track. You post these as if they are gospel, yet you contradict yourself at every turn, so it seems. I agree with some of your statements, but others are much too one- sided. I grant you , 33 years carries some weight, but coaching to use one rifle and get to know it, on one site, then stating a rifle-swap and "texas heart shots" on another , has me doubting your ethics. Why on earth would you shoot down the .300's, for their apparant capacity to blow-up, and advocate a straight on front shot, and or straight away rear shot with a .338 diam. bullet?
You must realize that many folk are going to read these posts, and you have a responsibility to edit the "chance episodes", not to post them as if they're commonplace. You get my drift?
Your shot placement on Elk is valid, but bone breakage is not a defineing factor. Only a CNS hit ,(brain, spinal chord)- will put them down, right now. Most other impacts will stop/slow them, if the hit is vital. They seem to have a brief- "What the hell was that?!" moment prior to dropping. Remember, they are animals, and have no concept of pain-killers, so pain is/can be a normal occurance for them, hence they MAY not startle upon feeling a sharp pain, whether from a bullet or else. The noise will set them off for sure, unless you find a deaf bull/cow.
Your experience with the .300 mags seems bitter. What gives? I've use'd a .338 for 7-8 years and I love it. I also have used various .30 cals., .280's(7mm), two 6.5mm's, and a .25cal. in the past, and all have harvested elk. Never further than 350 yrds. If the shot didn't present itself, I worked closer, or tried the next morning. Remind yourself, proper bullet construction is much more critical than weight or diameter. I have more, but this is long enough. Reply at your leisure.

( not to boast, but I've been building hunting rifles longer than you've hunted with your .340. - 'nough said)
Gangbanger-

 

[340mag]

, gangbanger
"then stating a rifle-swap and "texas heart shots" on another , has me doubting your ethics.",
340mag
Ive never taken a texas hear shot but I have loaned my rifle to several people tht have taken those shots" I don,t borrow rifles to take shots but other people in my group regularly do as some carry rifles with iron sights for the timber they mostly hunt and will borrow a scoped rifle for 300yard shots if the rifles available, again I don,t but it seems a very common practice amoung my hunting partners
gangbanger
'Why on earth would you shoot down the .300's, for their apparant capacity to blow-up, and advocate a straight on front shot, and or straight away rear shot with a .338 diam. bullet?'
340mag
I find after looking at the results( I get to dress out almost all game shot by my 5-6 party hunting group each year) that the 300 mags work great on heart/lung shots but work no ware near as well om strait on frontal or rear shot,
PLEASE remember Im just telling you what I find after dressing out the elk, I personally kill less than 15% of the elk I dress out and personally I don,t take texas heart shots but I will take and easily make a full frontal shot with my 340 wby mag"

gangbanger
They seem to have a brief- "What the hell was that?!" moment prior to dropping. Remember, they are animals, and have no concept of pain-killers, so pain is/can be a normal occurance for them, hence they MAY not startle upon feeling a sharp pain, whether from a bullet or else.
340mag
totally in agreement with you here, most elk either stand a few seconds before collapseing or turn and run a very short distance
gangbanger
"Your experience with the .300 mags seems bitter. What gives?"
340mag
Ive seen to many guys who are good shots with a 270-30-06 buy a 300mag and think the additional power (AND THEIR NEW FLINCH) somehow makes it alright to just shoot at elk from any angle or range, magnums and the 300mags moreso than the bigger size magnums in my opinion cause more problems in the hands of those that refuse to practice than any other class of guns, several times now Ive had guys who were good shots with a 30-06 buy a 300mag and start shooting terriably (no its not the guns fault) but by the time you get them shooting correctly with that gun years pass where if they would have stuck with their 270-30-06 their elk hunting and mine would have improved. If your a good shot with a 30-06 no larger rifle is necessary, if your looking for more power and deeper penetration the 35 whelen seems to be a good choice, but if you move up to the magnums your goning to need to learn to shoot and absorb some recoil without flinching, skipping the 300mags and going to the 338 mag and practiceing untill you can handle it well seems to be the best advice from what Ive seen by looking at the wound results, the 300mags give you a increase in range , a possiable flinch and more problems with bullet failure than a 30-06 and little else , if your going to indure the increased recoil ,youll need to practice (ALOT) untill your familiar and comfortable with it, in which case the move to a 338 mag has benefits in both power,penetration, and bullet weights available , what Im trying to say here(and doing it poorly I know) is that whatever gun you use youll need to practice with it untill your very comfortable shooting it and for some reason most guys buying a 300mag tend to devolope a flinch and severly limit their practice, (Ive had them ask ME to sight in THEIR rifles for them because the recoil was getting to them so much they could not shoot a reasonable group) ( I always sugguest they go back to their 30-06 for hunting untill they feel comfortable with their new rifle) while guys that buy a 338 know their going to get some recoil and know they will need to practice untill they can comfortably handle that increased recoil and in most cases do practice untill they train themselfs to handle it