spectr17

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IMPACTS OF NON-LEAD AMMO REQUIREMENT -- matthews-ONS -- 11mar09

Lead ammo ban running hunters from sport, costing DFG funding

By JIM MATTHEWS, Outdoor News Service

Nearly five percent fewer deer hunters and 15 percent fewer wild hog hunters took to the field in deer zones and the pig hunting region where hunters were mandated to use non-lead hunting ammunition last year, costing the Department of Fish and Game over $200,000 just in lost tag fees.

While deer tag sales rose significantly in California in 2008, sales in the seven deer hunting zones affected by the lead ammunition ban saw tag sales plummet after three years of steady gains in those same regions. Overall hunting license sales in California also dropped to their lowest level since license sales hit their peak in 1970.

Exorbitant gasoline prices and a general downturn in the economy didn't affect deer tag sales in the rest of the state, so the blame for the dramatic downturn in deer and pig tag sales can and should be placed squarely on the new regulations banning the use of lead ammunition within the range of the California condor.

In the three years leading up to the lead ban in 2008, the seven deer hunting zones affected by the ban (D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, D13, and the southern portion of the huge A zone) increased each year, going from 59,208 in 2005, to 59,696 in 2006, to 59,978 in 2007. In 2008, the first year of the lead ban, the tag sales dropped to 58,023, a nearly 2,000 tag decrease.

Two of the deer zones in the lead ban region saw their entire quotas sell out in 2008, just as they had done in the previous three years. But the first-come, first-serve tags in D7 and D9, sold out later for 2008 than they did the previous year, indicating less hunter interest in the tags. In 2007, the 9,000-tag quota in D7 sold out July 27, but last year it wasn't until August 11 when the quota sold out. The D9 quota of 2,000 tags sold out August 9 in 2007 and five days later in 2008 on August 14.

As further evidence that hunters simply quit hunting in the non-lead zones, wardens reported after the deer season last year that their contacts with hunters were down 50 to 70 percent from the previous year in the southern A zone and D13. This figure makes you wonder how many hunters bought their deer tags and then, once they started pricing ammo and gas prices continued to climb, simply decided to stay home.

In contrast, deer tag sales were higher on a statewide basis than they've been since 2002. The total of 193,929 tags sold in 2008 was significantly higher than the 186,927 total in 2007, and it was also the third year in a three-year upward trend.

The sale of wild pig tags dropped to their lowest level since tags started being sold individually instead of in books of five in 2004. Since the lead ban area encompasses much of the best wild hog hunting region in the state, the impact was even greater on wild hog hunters. Pig tag sales dropped from 55,393 in 2007 to 47,266 in 2008, a loss of 8,127 tags.

Statewide hunting license sales continued their downward trend in 2008, likely driven by hunters in the non-lead region who gave up the sport rather than deal with the increased costs and hassle involved with shooting non-lead ammunition. In 2007, hunting license sales were 297,694, the lowest level recorded in California since declines began after 1970, the peak hunting license sales year on record when 690,790 hunters purchased licenses in this state. They fell again in 2008, dropping to 296,790, a new record low.

Why were statewide deer tag sales up when hunting license sales declined? There were 175 fewer premium rifle deer tags for the coveted X-zones and special hunts and five fewer muzzleloader tags, so the odds of getting drawn for a premium deer hunt were less. Gas prices were through the roof, the economy was stumbling, and hunting license and tag fees were up again. All of those things typically would have driven statewide tag sales down. So why were tags sales up?

The simple answer is that many California hunters, who normally would have traveled to out-of-state locations, stayed home in 2008 and hunted close to home. Many did two hunts here instead of one in-state hunt and one out-of-state trip. It was all about saving money.

But, yet again, California has managed to drive more hunters out of the sport with increasingly complex regulations, more expensive licenses and tags, and now a forced lead ammunition ban that many hunters don't believe is necessary and adds significantly to their hunting costs. Each cost increase and regulatory change causes people to leave the sport and adds barriers for new people entering.

It is almost incomprehensible that we have lost 400,000 hunters in California since 1970, while our state's population has nearly doubled over the same period, much of the increase with Hispanics who have a great hunting heritage. The reason for the decline is because of costs and complex regulations. The lead ban is just another wedge that pushed more sportsmen away from the hunting tradition.

When I first started big game hunting in the early 1970s, my deer tag book (which had two deer tags) cost $3 -- only $1.50 per tag -- and you could hunt anywhere in the state with those two tags during three broad seasons. Hunting licenses and tags were bought over the counter at sporting good stores. No complex and cumbersome application process.

Ironically, we had more than twice as many hunters then, more hunter pressure everywhere, better deer herds than we do now, and blue collar hunters could afford the sport. It's not that way today. Even adjusted for today's cost of living and inflation, that $1.50 tag should only cost $7.65, but it's actually $26. Even if we account for the nearly 60 percent fewer hunters today and pay that much more for a deer tag, it should only be $12.25. But it's more than twice that amount. All DFG license and tag fees have increased way out of proportion to the consumer price index and inflation.

Working stiffs struggle to afford to hunting big game today.

Anyone who tries to tell me that a $60 box of .30-06 ammunition, especially when added to all the other costs, is not a deterrent needs to talk with DFG warden captain Roland Takayama. This past fall he went into one hunting camp where the hunters had divided up a box of non-lead ammo between the five of them. They each might be able to afford a $12 box of budget lead ammo from Wal-Mart, but not a $60 box. So they simply split the cost and each took four rounds for hunting. Talk to anyone who works the gun counter at Bass Pro Shops or Turner's Outdoorsman or any other store that sells non-lead ammunition and you will hear stories about customers complaining about the cost of ammunition.

Yet, even before we know if the lead ban is helping California condors, we have people pushing for -- and a Fish and Game Commission willing to entertain the idea of -- a statewide lead ammunition ban for all hunting. This is before we're sure it's helping condors. This is before we know the real economic impacts such a ban would wreck on the Department of Fish and Game's budget. This is before we know how many more hunters it would drive out of the sport arbitrarily.

A conservative estimate, based on this past year's decline in hunter numbers just in the non-lead hunting area, suggests a statewide ban would run several thousand hunters from the sport and cost the DFG somewhere around $1 million in lost revenue from license, tags, and stamp sales.

And we're doing this before we have the supportive proof that banning hunter's lead ammunition is having a positive affect on condors and would help other wildlife in the state.

This is bad science and worse economics. It is discriminatory. It is wrong.
 

BarneyFlats

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The libs are going to put and end to hunting and fishing in this state,costing the stae who knows how much money and countless jobs for those how rely on the outdoors for a way to make a living. We will have a state full of predators and a diseased population of game for them to feed on, cant wait!
 

Rampage1

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This is bad science and worse economics. It is discriminatory. It is wrong.

I think that sums up the lead band pretty good... I've shot barnes for a while but I don' think law makers should be the ones in control of what kind of ammo we shoot, it's just so wrong on so many levels.
 

spectr17

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Anybody still think this is about lead and the condors? The lead ban is simply a back door way to get rid guns and hunting. The rest is all smoke and mirrors.
 

jindydiver

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Anybody still think this is about lead and the condors? The lead ban is simply a back door way to get rid guns and hunting. The rest is all smoke and mirrors.

It sure looks that way to me :(
 

Krisdude

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I'm weighting for the non led fishing weights , once they find a seal or otter with a little led in their blood that be it for the led weights
 

muddy_udders

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I'm weighting for the non led fishing weights , once they find a seal or otter with a little led in their blood that be it for the led weights
They are currently trying to ban lead in all national parks.

National Park Service Gets the Lead Out! (full article)



<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD colSpan=3>
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</TD><TD>
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</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD width=170>For Immediate Release:
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</TD><TD width=430>March 10, 2009</TD></TR><TR vAlign=top><TD width=90>Contact(s): </TD><TD>David Barna, 202-208-6843
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Bert Frost, 202-208-3884
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<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=600 border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD>National Park Service Gets the Lead Out!
WASHINGTON – National Park Service visitors and wildlife have something to cheer about today with the agency’s stepped-up efforts to reduce lead in national park environments. “Our goal is to eliminate the use of lead ammunition and lead fishing tackle in parks by the end of 2010,” said Acting National Park Service Director Dan Wenk. “We want to take a leadership role in removing lead from the environment

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 

DADDYGUN08

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HEARING STUFF LIKE THIS JUST INCREASES MY DISGUST ON HOW PEOPLE WANT TO IMPOSS THERE BELIEVES ON SOMEONE ELSE AND CALL IT GOOD FOR THE ENVIRONMENT OR WHATEVER ELSE BS EXCUSE THEY USE... :mad-fumin-red: :skeered: :mad-fumin-red:
 

easymoney

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I have already spoken out on my thoughts on this matter and where it is really going. IMHO DFG has no proof nor does it want any...
A statewide ban is coming and as already stated it has nothing to do with science or facts, the libs want to stop us from using any firearms for sport or self defense. I await for the DFG report to come out with their report on the lead ban and for it to show unrefutable proof that condors are still dying from lead from hunting ammo. This is about politics and nothing more.
How many condors have died by human hands by handling or maniplation? How about the ones that died during the Big Sur fire, being moved out of the wilderness by humans?
I would love to hear from any DFG here,who want to show us some facts... Any facts.
 

jls456

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The ban is coming...Hunting will soon be a sport of the past in California. Just think how much revenue will be lost.........What a joke. DFG will soon have a permanent furlough,not just 2 days like they have now.
 

Speckmisser

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Just so we know who is the enemy and who isn't... the DFG is NOT the organization pushing the lead ammo ban. The Fish and Game Commission, an appointed (not elected) group of bureaucrats is where these regulations come from. NOT the DFG.

The DFG actually presented reports showing that there was no solid evidence, and asked that no regulations be imposed without that evidence, but the Fish and Game Commission (along with the state legislature) shoved this through anyway.

If we're gonna kick and scream (and we should),let's make sure we're kicking and screaming at the right people.
 

bux-n-dux

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If California goes to state-wide lead ban I will not stop hunting, but I will most likely turn to archery for big game. As has been said, the whole thing is a HUGE load of baloney. I'm all for doing our part to remove lead from the environment, but this isn't the way.
 

Mr. Luckypants

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Just so we know who is the enemy and who isn't... the DFG is NOT the organization pushing the lead ammo ban. The Fish and Game Commission, an appointed (not elected) group of bureaucrats is where these regulations come from. NOT the DFG.

The DFG actually presented reports showing that there was no solid evidence, and asked that no regulations be imposed without that evidence, but the Fish and Game Commission (along with the state legislature) shoved this through anyway.

If we're gonna kick and scream (and we should),let's make sure we're kicking and screaming at the right people.

Can you please provide a list of actions DFG took to prevent the ban from happening? I am very interested in seeing this. A list in chronological oder would be perfect.

Example:
DFG got noticed of ban on 2/2/2006: actions taken: bla bla bla

I would like to see this data before I can say DFG is not partially responsible for the ban.
 

WildlifeBranch

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Some of it is in the Final Environmental Document from Fall 2008; send me your email & I'll send it to you.

As for the Legislative Ban, the Department cannot take positions on leglislation unless approved by the administration. Eric

Since 2004, DFG has encouraged all hunters in condor range to "get the lead out" voluntarily.
In 2007, established policy that depredation take was to use non-lead in condor range.

here's a bit from the doc:

Condor Feeding on Hunter-killed Wildlife



Another area of controversy that should be addressed for recovery planning so that more comprehensive information and conclusions can be drawn, is related to free-ranging condor food habits. There is a lack of systematic and scientifically published documentation (although anecdotal and observational notes/records do exist) of free-ranging condor food habits or of condors feeding on hunter-killed carcasses and ingesting lead ammunition fragments in California.



Based on the information currently available to the Department on condor feeding, the primary animals that would be scavenged and could potentially have lead in their bodies would be (in order of reported direct observations in California) cattle, marine mammals, and unrecovered deer from hunting.



The Department does have rough estimates of large mammal wildlife populations in condor range of:



Elk & pronghorn in condor range = 1,700-1,800 (historically 750,000-1,000,000)

Deer in condor range = 90,000-110,000

Wild Pig in condor range = 80,000-120,000

Coyote in condor range = many thousands



The Department believes the estimates provided by Fry (2003) over-estimate the abundance of carrion available from hunting. The Department estimates an annual deer kill (legal + illegal) of 5,000 – 7,000 deer. Incorporating an estimated wounding loss of 15 percent, and a 28 percent voluntary use of non-lead projectiles already (Responsive Management Survey, Fall 2006), the Department estimated 500-800 whole deer carcasses and 4,500-6,300 gut pile remains of deer annually in condor range. As deer in the Central Coast inhabit chaparral, oak woodland, and forest habitats instead of the open grassland/short scrub habitats of the condor, it is unknown what the potential is for a condor to locate and scavenge these deer or their remains; or locate and scavenge a deer before other scavengers have consumed it. It is intuitive that hunters cannot find shot animals because the animals are primarily in dense cover that is not considered condor habitat.
 
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easymoney

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Mr misser, I stand corrected,
there is a difference between the annointed commission and the DFG, but the DFG does give input to the commission. And it is the enforcement department.
And thanks wildlifebranch, for posting that info.
IMHO, there is much assumption and inconsistancy in much of the info I have read to date.

"There is a lack of systematic and scientifically published documentation (although anecdotal and observational notes/records do exist) of free-ranging condor food habits or of condors feeding on hunter-killed carcasses and ingesting lead ammunition fragments in California. "

"the primary animals that would be scavenged and could potentially have lead in their bodies would be "

"The Department believes the estimates provided by Fry (2003) over-estimate the abundance of carrion available from hunting. "
 

hatchet1

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was'nt mr.mathews a HUGE advocate of this lead ban garbage in the first place?
shoulda,woulda,coulda....
 

rodneyshishido

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California hunters have one thing in common with Hawaii hunters - an unwillingness to come together as a lobbying group. For some reason we do not come together as one voice. This was apparent the Lake Sonoma thread where the archery guys are grumbling about the shotgunners. Until we can come together as one group, the "liberals" will legislate away our hunting and fishing "rights".

I read a study in which they tested individuals who consumed a significant amount of game harvested with firearms for lead levels. My recollection is there was no increase in the lead levels. Has anyone seen the condor study on which the legislation was based? Isn't there any hunter types who can evaluate the study to determine validity?
 

Gunther

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"It is almost incomprehensible that we have lost 400,000 hunters in California since 1970, while our state's population has nearly doubled over the same period, much of the increase with Hispanics who have a great hunting heritage."

Do hispanics have a great hunting heritage? I am serious about this, I have never heard that before.
 
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