June POR stories

[Hogskin]

Wet sow, never. Dry sow, nighty-night.

The piglets that I've seen hanging around momma are little fellars. As Brian said, they look like slightly oversize footballs. I killed one, once a couple years ago and that was only because it was alone and blind. It had been a very dry year and its eyes were full of foxtails. I got no pleasure out of it.

 

[Speckmisser]

My sow this year was dry, and she was my first sow. I made sure she was was dry before I took the shot.

I drew and passed on a wet sow with piglets during the same hunt, but it was damned close. She was only about 20 yards away, and I had the .44 on her with the hammer back right before I noticed the little bundles around her feet.

I'm betting it's an easy mistake, though... especially if you jump them from the brush. Snapshooting can be hazardous to piggie health.

I suppose there are a lot of folks out there who have no issue with killing a wet sow. After all, the bottom line is, we're supposed to be cutting into the population. But I don't think I'll ever be able to bring myself to pop a cap in a momma pig with young'uns. Just doesn't seem right.

Shoot, it took two or three seasons before I could make myself kill a doe.

 

[huntducks]

I was sure hoping to get a reply from the others on the pig hunt, because somehow i'm getting this feeling that all goes on these hunt's and that does not go well with me.

I have done my share of killing in my lifetime, and one I hate to see wounded animals does not make a diffrence pigs, yotes, or skunks and two to see a mother with young shot I don't care what it is, and I have seen guys shoot a doe's with a spotted fawn or fawns, I would not even shoot a doe with yearlings.

Guy's if your on this Tejon pig hunt and i'm all wrong about my theroy tell me, if not shame on you as hunters

if your even thinking about shooting a wet sow with piglets, some might not see my point but if we as hunters are so desperate for a kill hunting has no future in this country

 

[Suzmar1997]

Hunt~
If you read my post, at no time did I or anyone in my group get a shot (Unfortunately) nor did we say anything about shooting wet sows. I know everyone in my group is ethical when it comes to hunting pigs and other game and everyone else that I met at camp is the same way. I would be willing to bet that just about everyone on here is more interested in the actual hunt and getting outdoors than whether or not they get a "kill". Don't get me wrong, I was disappointed when our group didn't get a hog, but just getting out there, seeing quite a few hogs, and just the beauty of the Tejon was well worth it. I believe all the talk of the piglets was due to fairchase inquiring on the piglets as to get an idea of how many sows appeared to have young by their side (Looking toward the future). I would be willing to bet you wouldn't find a handfull of guys here that would shoot at a wet sow.

 

[huntducks]

QUOTE

(We went up the first canyon, and at the second set of bushes we checked out, a huge black hog went bolting up the hill! Guns at ready, we continued to advance on the bush. About ten pigs went streaming out the back side, probably 5 sows, and 5 piglets in trail. It was a low percentage opportunity, as they cleverly ran up hill, and were just barely visible behind a rise in the hill.

I gave gdt the shot, "Shoot! Shoot!" I yelled! He unleashed a single blast from his Model 70, but unfortunately, didn't connect. It was a tough shot, I would have been truly impressed had he scored. I'll leave him to fill in the additional details.

We then proceeded up the next canyon. I took the high side, he worked the low side. After checking out the likely hiding spots, I hadn't seen anything, and let my guard down, and walked along a little valley. As I looked down - There were two sows and 3 piglets! Holy Gawd!

They saw me just before I saw them, and bolted. I took a snapshot at them, but missed. I couldn't believe I could have blown an opportunity like that!

After those sows hightailed it out, 3 piglets came out of the brush. I ran down and got a picture of them from about 10 yards away. Should be a good photo.)

The above quote is what i'm talking about.

If i'm reading this wrong please tell me.

Suzmar 1997

Just to inform you it is illeagle to spot game and use a two way radio to tell there where abouts, I don't really care but you might if a warden is about and picks up your traffic, I also believe that in the F&G code they leave it up to warden to cite or not.

 

[Rocky_LC]

Interesting conversation going on since I last visited.

I used the word "piglets" loosely. Hogs tend to stick in family groups, and some are bigger than others. Certainly there was a size difference between the adults and the little ones.

These "piglets" in my humble opinion were well capable of taking care of themselves, these were much bigger than "footballs". Next time I'll call them "weaner pigs".

The fact that 3 more were off foraging by themselves and showed up after all the action was over is proof enough to me of that.

Wet or Dry? I can't say. I missed the shot.

I'll post my photo and you can judge their age/size/capabilities for yourself.

Rocky

By the way, I like to think of myself as a sportsman, and feel like I give these hogs a real chase, by hunting them on foot, up canyons, etc. This is rugged country, and on this trip, at least, they got more out of me than I did out of them.

 

[gdt]

Huntducks

Part of telling a story is to do so in our own words. Sometimes those words are incorrectly used. But at least you should give us the benefit of the doubt. When we type these stories, we are trying to do our best to impart a tale of what happened. Our grammer may not be right, our choice of words may not be right. But hey! We are telling a story.

Rocky and I would not go after a wet sow with "piglets" per your definition.

However, with that said, I spoke with Ron Gayer and he stated that he did not have a problem with a wet sow being taken (but he doesn't encourge it either) due to the fact that they are trying to control the population of hogs on the ranch. It seems that the 1200 a year being taken is still not enough to slow the growth of the numbers of hogs on the ranch.

Hopefully, we can be cool about this now.

gdt

 

[huntducks]

Rocky & gdt

That's fine you say they where big enought to take care of thenselves I have no reason to doubt you.

Glad you had a good time.

I don't know who Ron Gayer is he may not have a problem with a wet sow, but I would as a hunter, now if your flushing Mt lions with kittens and they all ran off a cliff to there death I would buy you dinner.

 

[gdt]

Sorry, Ron Gayer is one of the guides up at Tejon Ranch.

gdt

 

[Suzmar1997]

Thanks for the tip huntducks, you'll be glad to know that our radio was off during the whole stalk, and we only spoke with our friend in the car after we made it to the clearing where we last saw the boar from the car. We asked him how long it had been from the time we made it to the clearing from the time he last saw the boar. Didn't use him to aid us to pursue the game after that, just on figuring out how the heck we'd make it back up to the car. Guess we still were in the gray area of the DFG regs (Guess I'll brush up on every code before I post again). We hardly ever use radios during hunting and if we do its so another hunter can get the vehicle if others feel like walking that extra mile. Guess the way I wrote that made it sound like we make a practice of pin pointing game via radio. Well, we don't, so if there is anything else in my post or others that you'd like to question feel free to do so. In the meantime I will be reading every single reg. in the F&G code book so I know I will always be in compliance.

 

[muskeg]

I thougt it was OK to use radio contact while hunting Pigs in Ca.

And Ron told me the same thing on our guided hunt last Jan. With 1000 to 1200 hogs taken per year off Tejon, that won't keep up with the population boom. There not to concerned about taking sows. As the main reason for the Tejon hog hunt (Pig-o-Rama) is to try to cut down on the growing population.

Now I believe a hog has been killed in every county in Ca. As the population grows in the vinyard country (which it will) you will see ranch hands just culling (already happening in some areas). They will be gunning for wet sows.

 

[huntducks]

Muskeg

I as a HUNTER have a responsbility to the game I hunt quick dispatch, fairchase, cleaning and using the animal (on something I can eat).

Lets just say these where deer, elk, moose, or bears would you be shooting doe's with fawn's and cows with calfs or sows with cubs, we all know when they have a doe or cow hunt they want to lower the pop. but some how I feel that pigs here in Ca. which is or will be our number one BG animal falls something short of BG in many minds, some see them as a notch above a yote or sage rat and a couple notch's below BG, I don't with less and less hunter chances to hunt deer & elk on public land here in CA. the pig is filling that vacume and to me you don't kill your future stock, and the hope that some of the pigs move off private land and onto public, where a hunter gets a shot at one, not just the pay and play.

The biggest problem with pigs is there an exotic, and to the new school F&G biologist, that does not set well, anything that was not here 500 years ago should be removed, but DFG also see's a GREAT source of income off pig's, license & tags(surprised the tags have not went up) so it's kind off a catch 22, but we as hunters have that responsbility to treat them with respect and as any other BG animal.

Now depredation is another thing, I have been on Widgeon hunts (ducks) where you shot them at night in lettuce fields, I shot axis deer at night in Hawaii in the pineapple fields (not my cup of tea). but depredation is a whole diffrent ball game, and don't lump it together with hunting just like poaching is not hunting.

 

[Speckmisser]

Interesting discussion.

Wild hogs kinda fall in that middle ground between game and varmint. Personally, I'm standing on the "game" side of the fence, but that's just my own choice. Doesn't seem real "sporting" to me to orphan a bunch of piglets, but I have been told that a sow will "adopt" a litter of orphans.

While I can't condone shooting wet sows, the fact is that the whole reason we have year-round hunting and no limits is because we are supposed to be culling the population. As someone mentioned, as sport hunting fails as a control method, we're going to start seeing a lot more wholesale slaughter as farmers and property owners begin to see damage.

From some stories I've heard, it does seem like a lot of useless lead was flung around, but I wasn't there. I've said before what I think about taking low-percentage shots, but then, I can't judge what I did not see. I missed a shot on my last Tejon hunt too, and I know I wasn't shooting wild, so who am I to make the call about someone else?

Bottom line, though, I agree with Huntducks that, as sport hunters, we should treat the game we hunt with respect. We are not exterminators.

Anyway, the main reason I chimed back in is to say that there is NO prohibition against using two-way radios in CA. We actually had a couple of threads about this last year, and someone contacted DFG to verify.

 

[pitdog]

I’ve never witnessed an un-sportsmanlike act at Tejon. I’ve seen some shots that, for me, would have been low percentage shots but who an I to judge that persons skill level?

I'm not sure what gave anyone the idea that folks were shooting wet sows & piglets. I guess a post can be somewhat subjective.

Just for the record, I took a high percentage shot that missed and although I missed (or thought so), I still spent an hour looking for a blood trail. Further, the pig I killed the next day was a DRY sow.

Would I kill a wet sow?… Not intentionally. Would I care if someone does? No. Is a pig BG? Sort of. Do they deserve respect? Absolutely!

I have to agree with Specmisser on this quote:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

“While I can't condone shooting wet sows, the fact is that the whole reason we have year-round hunting and no limits is because we are supposed to be culling the population. As someone mentioned, as sport hunting fails as a control method, we're going to start seeing a lot more wholesale slaughter as farmers and property owners begin to see damage.”[/b]

I agree with Huntducks on this:
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

“the pig is filling that vacume and to me you don't kill your future stock, and the hope that some of the pigs move off private land and onto public, where a hunter gets a shot at one, not just the pay and play.”[/b]

Hope that clears my name.

 

[spectr17]

Regarding radios use while hunting.

Most states that I know of allow you to possess and use radios while hunting as long as you DO NOT herd or pursue game with them. Wardens and state enforcement agencies have defined "herd and pursue" to me as conducting drives using radios, talking another hunter on to a animal or calling your buddy to let him know a deer is coming. Even if your state hunting regs do not contain any language on radio use you can be cited under the "Fair Chase" intent of the game laws according to wardens. P&Y and B&C do not allow entries that were taken with the aid of radios under their "fair chase" rules also.

I know of two recent prosecutions of hunters who used radios while hunting to herd or pursue game. One was last year in Alaska where a hunter guided his buddy on a stalk to a moose. The other was a recent bust of poachers in Iowa who were poaching deer. A simple scanner or a GMRS/FRS radio is all you need to listen to the converations and you would be amazed at what you can hear on those channels on any given ridgetop. I'm also seeing the wardens with scanners and FRS radios also so yes, there is a chance you can be monitored. It doesn't take long to figure out where uncle Billy is and where cousin Tom just shot over the ridge by listening to the channels.

Only 1 state I know of outright bans radio possession while hunting, Ohio. Cell phones are legal to use in Ohio and they are basically a radio also so go figure on that one.

FRS radios don't need a license, GMRS require a license. I would license any GMRS radios myself. You may get away without a license but GMRS radios also use a couple channels that are the input channels to GMRS repeaters. If you tie up one of those repeater input channels with your chatter I'm pretty sure someone will file a complaint if not DF your location and report your license plates. Then you may have to deal with the FCC.

One last note, late word out of Mexico is that FRS radios are legal down there now. There are selling them at the SAM's clubs if you need to buy them while in Mexico.

I have more info on radios and a list of the states that allow them at http://www.jesseshuntingpage.com/radios.html

 

[huntducks]

speckmisser

I did not think it was illegle in Ca. until last year when I was deer hunting and I was talking to a warden up in X9A and he showed it to me in the F&G code where it left it up to the wardens disgresion, he was listing to two guys talking about a wounded deer and one was directing the other towards it he said he had no problem with that, but did say he would cite if that deer was not wounded, you can look or I can but it is in the DFG code, seemed kind of vague for Ca. who usually has everything cut and dried.

Every year on our spring goose hunt to MO. we use two ways to stay in contact and drive around and spot geese in fields, I was informed last year by a conservation officer (same as warden here) that it was illegle to do that and if he caught you he would cite you under fair chase law, I was amazed, I thought they wanted as many dead as they could get and talking back and forth and then moving in on a field was a way of hunting them, he and I were not on the same page on that one but as long as he had the ticket book i'll go along with the program.

Pitdog the reason I asked was simple we shot at 2 sows with 5 piglets. (is a pig BG sort of) believe me when I say this you my have a great attitude about hunting, but many others reading these posts are just starting out to hunt, and when they walk away from there putter thinking less of a animal it has a snowball effect, and when you don't respect the animals you hunt sometime you become a poacher, i'm not saying that will happen but I have talked to many a hunter in my 55 years, and shake my head at the one's that don't have any respect for the game they hunt , be it ground squirrels or elk they all deserve respect, we all joke around with names snow geese being called sky carp, myself calling spoonbills wedgeheads, ground squirrels being sage rats so on, but the last thing we need to do is give the impression to new hunters that it's OK to shoot at any pig that walks anywhere anytime.

 

[Speckmisser]

Just gonna point folks back to a couple of threads on the Radio topic.

Here's a poll and discussion.

Here's another discussion, including some vague info from Lt. Liz Schwall at DFG.

Huntducks, if you could find the section in the Fish and Game statutes, and send me the reg numbers, that would really help settle my mind. For my own part, I have scoured the DFG regs and can't find specific mention of the use of two-way radios.

From a sportsmanship perspective, using radios as a tool for a drive is definitely questionable. Generally, the prohibitions have arisen because you had yahoos out there in trucks and ATVs, or even in aircraft, following game and even herding it to "hunters".

In CA, though, because it's not specifically defined in the regs it's up to the warden to decide when the use exceeds "fair chase". That's a lot of leeway, so bear it in mind if you're using a radio to, say, guide a partner across a canyon to a bedded hog, or let your hunting buddy know there's a big buck coming out of the briar patch and heading to his position.

 

[Nathan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

I feel that pigs here in Ca. which is or will be our number one BG animal falls something short of BG in many minds, some see them as a notch above a yote or sage rat and a couple notch's below BG, I don't with less and less hunter chances to hunt deer & elk on public land here in CA. the pig is filling that vacume and to me you don't kill your future stock, and the hope that some of the pigs move off private land and onto public, where a hunter gets a shot at one, not just the pay and play[/b]

Huntducks,

This is your opinion. You should not be jumping all over people about shooting a wet sow when the many people have to hire professional hunters to get rid of pig populations. It would be better for a recreational hunter to shoot a wet sow and whole family of piglets than for someone to hire a professional hunter. If we expect to get access to hunt on private lands we should be willing to help out the land owner and if that means shooting every last pig on the place then that is what it means. The land belongs to the land owner and they have the right to manage it the way the see fit provided they are abidding under the restriction placed on them by the local authorties.

The only reason that you are opposed to shooting "wet sows" is because you are out to protect your own shooting interest. If we just keep letting the hog population grow you are going to starve ever rancher and farmer in the stateout of business. Then where will you hunt when they sell out to development or parcells to samll to hunt.

Nathan

 

[spectr17]

Spec, there is no reg in the DFG code that regulates radio use while hunting.

There IS a reg or section that wardens can use that covers fair chase. In some states this covers shooting deer while swimming in water or trapped by water etc. Most of the wardens and state agencies I have questioned stated you can be cited under this fair chase section if you "Herd or Pursue" game with your radios.

I know there are a few wardens on here, let me see if they will cite the exact DFG code for us.

You can yack all you want on the radios but as HuntDucks pointed out what the warden he was with said, as soon as you start communicating to your buddy where game is or coordinating the pursuit you're in violation.

 

[Speckmisser]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Spec, there is no reg in the DFG code that regulates radio use while hunting.

There IS a reg or section that wardens can use that covers fair chase. In some states this covers shooting deer while swimming in water or trapped by water etc. Most of the wardens and state agencies I have questioned stated you can be cited under this fair chase section if you "Herd or Pursue" game with your radios.[/b]

Jesse,

No arguments from me. As I said, I haven't been able to find any statutes at all regarding two-way radios. But I don't doubt that there's probably something there that could be used against me (or any other hunter).

I'd just like to see it, read it, and interpret it myself, so when I'm out in the field and Mr. Green Jeans puts his hand on my shoulder one day I'll know whether to take it to court or just go ahead and write the check.