lead bullets for Elk in California?

[oldworld124]

Is it OK to use lead ammunition for Elk hunting in California?

I have used it all of my life.

Is it now a regulation to use a non lead bullet on Elk? If so what would you guys recommend for a .270 ? My hunting buddy and I use a 140 hand loaded match boat tail spire point. It works great and I have dropped many deer at an average of 300 yds with it. It goes right though them. I prefer the 140 range as it has the flat shooting capabilities and enough mass to get the job done.

BTW, I will be hunting the Tenemaha herd.

Thanks much, John

 

[hank4elk]

I beleave Tenemaha is OK with lead. Not FHL or Los Padres. Don't know how far north in A zone the ban goes. And good luck on your elk hunt . I'm hoping for a cow tag someday here, forgot trying to get a bull tag here .

 

[hatchet1]

if your in the teradactile zone{condor} you would be in violation sir,check the tree hugger map on the d.f.g. website
to confirm, if you are mandated to shoot the non-leathal ,i mean non-lead projectile, aim for the neck and break it, those
wapiti take some kinda hurt to put um down, good luck and post um when you drop um

 

[hntnnut]

Lead is still OK in the Owens Valley for the time being.

Richard

 

[oldworld124]

Thanks all very much for the info. The DFG website shows Inyo county as being outside of the Big Bird flight range. What a joke. They expanded their range to include the eastern slope of the sierras and way north. Anything to restrict our rights as hunters.

 

[hank4elk]

It's not to funny to think they will do the same through the range of the overgrown buzzards. They have been RELOCATEING them to the Grand Canyon. And they can fly to Colorado from there so you can expect to hear from all the bunnyhugger groups in your perspective states,AZ.CO.Ut. and NM. in near future.

 

[Speckmisser]

Hank,

AZ is already there. But instead of an idiotic and barely enforceable legal ban, Arizona has implemented a voluntary program in the areas where they have condors. To make it sweeter, AZ throws in coupons for ammo... last year it was two boxes. This year that may be reduced to one box, but that's still a lot better than CA has done. They're seeing something like 80% compliance, without having to pass any new laws.

I would lay odds we're already on track for a nationwide lead ban, though... it'll take time and probably make a lot of noise, but hunters need to get it together now. If there's a defense, then it's in facts and solidarity among our ranks. It's also in a proactive response. Don't put up roadblocks unless you provide a detour.

 

[hank4elk]

I agree Speck. We should be WAY ahead of the curve. It's just sad to hear all the derogatory coments about us Ca. residents that have had our state wrecked by whoever. And as long as I'm a resident I'll hunt and fish here. But I have to admit I'm almost ready to move after 53yrs. And I am very active in access on US lands for US citizens. It's part of my rights and heritage.

 

[WildlifeBranch]

wonder how many condor have been determined to die from hunters lead in AZ versus CA in the past 2 years...

 

[oldworld124]

Does anybody here know how many condor deaths have been attributed to hunter's lead ammo? I am talking about those that have ingested them and then died as a direct result from lead poisoning. Not those that have been killed intentionally.

Thanks

 

[hntnnut]

Verified (documented)- I'd say ZERO


Richard

 

[Speckmisser]

Oldworld, do you mean attributed or verified? That's a BIG difference, and as far as I can tell, no one can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that any condor has died from ingesting lead ammo (shot by "hunters" is a different question). That said, I don't think it's out of line to say it's entirely possible that hunters' lead has contributed to the demise of a couple... but the biologists and ornithologists will have to have the final say on that if they can.

Eric, if I remember all the stuff I've read... and I've read way more than any normal, unpaid individual should have... it seems like the toll is higher in AZ than in CA, but those are fairly old numbers.

The biggest condor lead poisoning case I've read of in the last few years, though, actually took place in Baja, MX... where there is no big game hunting to speak of. Turns out the lead was coming from the dead cattle they were feeding the birds. X-ray investigation showed some of those cattle were riddled with shot. Can't explain that one, but I guess it gets kinda boring down in that desert...

Because lead toxicity is generally a cumulative issue, I doubt a year or two is going to tell the real tale. However, in due time CA researchers should start to see whether this ban is actually making a difference.

Here's the kicker, though...

The rest of the country isn't looking at the condors. They're all in a panic over the "possibility" that lead ammo may be poisoning humans. Never mind that there is nothing to support this argument. THAT will be the key driver in a nationwide ban. Mark my words.

 

[WildlifeBranch]

Phil, think you are right. There have been no verified condor deaths from hunter-killed game in CA. My understanding in AZ over the past 2 years, is that there were 3 or 4.

Whose system worked better? CA did, but it is most likely because of the difference in life history of the large game species (migratory herding deer on the Kaibab versus low density black-tailed deer of the chaparral in Central CA). Think about evolutionary history of the condor and how it must've operated-- soaring over vast herds of large mammals rather than trying to eek out a living looking in dense brush (no way).

this is why the condor eats lots of cattle...