NON-LEAD AMMO PROPOSED IN CONDOR RANGE BY DFG

[MJB]

Well said Free......I agree Condors will do themselves in.

 

[easymoney]

Thanks, larrysogla, for pointing this out. Be fire safe out there...

Again I'd like to be reminded of how much money has already been spent trying to stave off the inevitable fate regarding condors? And how many birds have grown and survived in the wild, regardless of lead poisoning... It is not many for the amount of time and money wasted.

 

[180pilot]

Expect to pay a lot more for loaded ammunition, and all copper bullets don't shoot well in some calibers even when hand loaded. Will major manufacturers tool up to make "custom" ammo just for California? This will impact Varmint hunters the most, firing thousands of rounds a year.

 

[billrob]

larry,
I called the 3 local forests here last season and they specifically told me lead core only.
When I asked about copper 2 foresters told me they were a fire hazard and that they couldn't be used.
I know now copper doesn't spark and neither does brass; most places I have been of an industrial flammable nature have brass tools.
I don't know if the thinking was copper is a good conductor or what?
Or if it was just good old bureacratic thinking because the word copper wasn't used specifically.
But I'm glad that they clarified it by removing the lead only wording.
It's real tough (or has been for me) to get the same answer from any 2 rangers in the San Bernardino Forest. I get the same snear out of all of them when I mention hunting though.
I stumped 2 DFG wardens today when I asked if gobbler guillotines were legal. 1 said yes and the other said no at the same time.
Never did get it straightened out so I guess it all depends who you run into out there and what their interpretation is.
I've seen several write ups on best hog hunting bullets recommended by guides and barnes is always in the top 1 or 2.
Personally, I hate to see them ban anything because they always throw in add ons and expand the scope.
The folks I met today at the Cleveland Forest USFS, DFG, BLM, City of San Diego seemed very nice and not anti at all. I found the same thing at Angeles Forest too but those were the firefighters I spoke with.
Wish I could say the same for San Bernardino since it's right up the street (literally) from where I live.
Barnes also has the MRX which is tungsten core. More dense than lead I haven't tried them yet. I'm still waiting to hit the lottery first.
Can we get hunters on the endangered list so they can't screw with us anymore? Or maybe as an opressed minority group? Fight fire with fire right?

 

[Freedivr2]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (billrob @ Feb 24 2007, 07:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Can we get hunters on the endangered list so they can't screw with us anymore? Or maybe as an opressed minority group? Fight fire with fire right?[/b]

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin about............

 

[larrysogla]

Billrob,
From my personal experience, Law Enforcement Agents interpret the law very narrowly and for them to be on the safe side, they gravitate towards the word "NO"!!! Plus the laws are written in the language of Attorneys and the legalese is so intimidating even a college graduate will have a hard time pinpointing exactly what is 100% allowable and what is 100% NON-allowable. The obscure GRAY areas are intimidating to define, so the LEA's will choose to say "NO"!!! PLUS also I have found from PERSONAL experience that they are truly ignorant of a lot of the issues because they don't have the time to read the encyclopedia size State penal code, Federal rules and regulations and County ordinances and City regs. It is nightmarish for them as well as for us. So we should just be on the safe side. We don't know what Township, City, County, State or Federal regulations are in effect in what area. PERSONALLY I STAY AWAY FROM THE GRAY AREAS!
Regarding TUNGSTEN rifle ammo, tungsten is the Armor Piercing Core in a lot of Military Armor Piercing ammunition. So I can assume that if you are hauled before a judge and are accused of using Armor Piercing Ammunition(tungsten), the judge can stretch the definition of Armor Piercing Ammo to include your Tungsten hunting ammo. Another Gray Area. So I would AVOID tungsten RIFLE ammo altogether.
Regarding lead contamination of shot animal carcass, the lead core ammo even on a PASS THRU will shed jacket(copper) material and also lead material and the lead material is being shed in very tiny fragments (soft point Big Game ammo has lead in the nose and in the core). That is the reason why recovered lead core bullets are NEVER 100% weight retention but more in the order of 80% OR LESS weight retention. These TINY shed lead fragments even on a pass thru is enough amount to cause lead posioning on a 10 lb. Condor or Eagle or Hawk. The small body weight of the birds will not tolerate lead even in small amounts. Yes, gradually even varmint ammo(the condors, eagles and hawks also eat the squirrel and coyote carcass) will have to be lead free. To think about it, this is in line with the Goobermint mandating Lead Free Gasoline, Lead Free Paint, Lead Free Food Tin Cans(they used to seal the Food Tin Cans by soldering the lid with lead) and also the manufacturers shifting from Highly Toxic Mercuric Ammunition Primers(Fulminate of Mercury) to NON-MERCURIC Ammunition Primers, NON-MERCURIC Electronics Batteries, from toxic Cadmium in Nickel Cadmium batteries(NiCad) to non-toxic NimH batteries without the toxic Cadmium. It is a trend that will will come SURELY and Inevitably. The cost???? The manufacturers will use Reasearch and Development but in the end it will still be expensive ammo. As of now I am using Barnes X in my .300 WM and .338 WM and they are accurate in my guns, but I don't plink with these expensive ammo nor do I target shoot with it. I target shoot with lead core ammo. 'Nuff said.

 

[QuackWhacker]

It was reported in todays Contra Costa Times, that the Tejon Ranch Co. has decided to ban the use of all lead ammo for hunting on it's property beginning with the 2008 hunting season. That's bullets, shot shells...everything.

And so it starts.....

 

[boarcrz]

Has anyone seen a condor next to a gut pile or flying over it?

 

[180pilot]

Myself and friends shoot "whistle pigs" ( Columbian Ground Squirrel) in Southern Oregon for ranchers each year. It is common to shoot 300 a day, we mostly use the .17 HMR which is lead core. If we return to the area within 2 days the most of the carcasses are gone, and that area is full of raptors and Owls. There are many Varmint hunters in Northern California, Oregon and Washington and Idaho doing this every year. How come we aren't seeing dead hawks, Owls etc. littering the landscape. As a matter of fact it appears I see more raptors up there every year. Are hawks and Owls smarter then Condors about eating metal??????? What about Turkey Vultures?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...t_uids=12685072

Has anyone noticed the Chinese are buying up Copper like mad, forcing the price up.

http://english.people.com.cn/200402/16/eng...16_134904.shtml