jjhack

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I took my little boy to Northern California this week to hunt wild hogs. I've hunted pigs all over the USA and outside the USA on several occasions. Hogs are a passion of mine I just can't explain it.

We drove down in the pickup with the camper and stayed right on the ranch we were going to hunt. During the stay I would guess I saw 50-60 pigs, although none provided any normal ethical type of shooting ...... for me. The Pigs here are all very nocturnal. In daylight or across open ground they are moving all the time towards the thick stuff. It took a while to figure this out for me. I was always expecting them to stop at some point and offer some kind of standing shot.

After a couple days of this the manager of the ranch I was hunting went out with us. We came across a group of hogs crossing way ahead of us and he said "shoot one"....... They were trotting at a good clip, but not quite full out running.....yet.

When he yelled to me I sat and rested the rifle across my knee and picked one out, but dog-gone they were moving fast and getting out of range in a hurry.

Then he yells..... Better shoot, they are going to be gone.

So I lead the biggest one which is quartering away and moving fast at 150 plus yards. I squeeze the trigger and nothing falls or even flinches.............A miss?

He yells over to me shoot again!

I'm trying my best now to steady this rifle and only have a tail shot as the same hog is heading up the hill about 250 yards away. I lay the crosshairs between the ears hoping it's enough lead and click it off...........Nothing at all, no reaction nada zip.......nothing!

He says to me "wadda ya missin these hogs"

Then I get a break, ........well kinda........that big hog stops just below the rise in the hill, turns broadside and stands looking back. I said to the rancher, how far? My rangefinder is in my pocket but I have about 2 seconds to shoot. He says " he's all of 300 maybe 350" I was thinking 400 but at least he's motionless. I know my rifle is 13" low at 400 so I hold the crosshairs right on the top of his back. Slowly squeeze off and Boom!...... the good sound of a solid hit with the pig lurching and stumbling then running up the hill and over the crest.

The rancher says........well that last one got him.

So we load onto his ATV and drive up to hill. He drops me and Jesse off on the down hill side to look for blood and he drives up the really steep sidehill where the pig was standing. Before I could even get serious about the direction I was looking he yells down the pig is up here!

So we climb up and he says you hit it twice about 3 inches apart right through the chest. Perfect shots. Wow how did that pig go that far with a double lung hit.... up that steep hill at a run? When we were rolling him over for photo's he says holy cow you really blew a hole into this hind quarter. I looked over and said wow I actually hit him all three times! He did not seem to think it was reason to be pleased that I blew a ham to bits. I'll take a bad ham and a running shot at 250 yards every time! Better to lose a little meat then the whole animal. But what's even more impressive is that this hog was double lunged at 150, had a complete length wise penetration at 250, and still made it to 350 plus for a needed 3rd shot.

And this was a Sow too! Anyway it was a good hunt with my nearly 5 year old son. And three more complete pass throughs with the 165TSX from that 30/06. I'm not one to shoot running game as a normal practice. I've taken a few head running, but I never like the odds. The Northern California Ranchers don't look at pigs like normal big game, but rather they seem to consider them as most of us would coyotes. I would never pass a chance at a coyote even running. I guess I was slow to grasp that when I arrived there. I definately gotta practice a bit more running shots if I do this again!

All the exits looked like good expanded functional TSX performance. The entry on the hindquarter was 1" and that inner thigh was just mush. The exit was between the front legs but very near the right front leg "arm pit". The exit was about 1/2" diameter. They also kept the TSX tradition of no game reaction when hit. Only that last shot which broke the exit side Humerus and poked through the entry side scapula gave an indication of a hit.

Hard to argue with a 250 yard lengthwise pass through on what is probably a 200pound animal as tough as a hog is. Let there be no doubt about the toughness of a wild hog. These aniamls are like African Game where the ability to absorb bullets are concerned.

Jesse_Nov2006.JPG


Since I have taken a number of exceptional hogs in my life, I've become just as happy with a nice size meat hog. This was a sow which will be great table fare. Just as good as big tusks sometimes. I have another tag good til June. Maybe I'll try and head back down for another one before this tag expires.
 

SDHNTR

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Nice, cool story. I've killed 20+ hogs and I think the vast majority of them were either trotting or running. By nature they are seldom still. I remember my first hog hunt when the guide gave me some friendly hollering for not shooting at a running pig. I was waiting for him to stop too. Never happened.

That is a cool looking pig. I'm with ya too, a pig is a pig. Nowadays, I'll take a nice meat pig over a stinky boar anyday.
 

Speckmisser

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Glad you got a hunt in, JJ! And scored some pork, too.

I learned to hunt big game shooting deer in front of hounds. No standing still, breadbox shooting there... everything is at a dead rabbit run. I'm kinda spoiled on still-hunting now. But you're right... I don't think I've ever seen a hog stand still for more than a second or two.

And they are tough! A lot of folks would have written that pig off as a miss after the first two shots.
 

Jean

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I can't tell who has the bigger smile, you or your son. Nice pic and great story.
 

BDB

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Nice story and pig, congrats. So do you have a theory why with these particular bullets you don't seem to get a reaction from the animal when hit? They are tough critters, I haven't killed that many (7 I think) but a couple of them were pretty tough.
 

jjhack

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Well, as you might know( or not) I'm a PH in Africa and see 100's of big game killed each year. This last season we took 127 animals in the first month of the season. Of that amount 51 were killed with my loaner 30/06. The same rifle I used for this hunt. Many of my international hunters choose not to fly with a gun, or cannot own one in the country they live in.

Anyhow I have been testing and using bullets for various manufacturers for a very long time now. The TSX bullets although considered a "soft point" by hunting standards are really more like a slighly expanding solid. I think some of them are expanded minimally and zip clean through, when compared to an actual lead core bonded bullet that will at least double it's size as it penetrates.

Anyway rather then retype the whole thing I will just cut and paste the info here from the previous thread in the Africa forum
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As Promised I have recovered and recorded a lot of information on the bullets used this season from my loaner 30/06 rifle.

First some of the facts and details regarding the loads and the gun used.

Rifle: Model 70 Winchester PacNor 23” barrel in standard 30/06 cartridge

Winchester Brass
Federal 210M primers
IMR4350 powder 58 grains
Chronographed at 2900 plus at 55deg F

Game shot by 6 different hunters six male one female

6 warthogs
12 impala
6 Kudu bulls
1 Kudu cow
5 Zebra
3 waterbuck
6 wildebeest
4 Red Hartebeest
4 Blesbok
2 Nyala
1 Steenbok
1 Gemsbok

51 total animals. One was not recovered, a Blue Wildebeest was lost although a confirmed hit with a short blood trail.

Shortest shot was a impala at about 40 feet, longest shots were a Zebra at a laser measured 237 yards, Blue Wildebeest at 198 yards, Kudu Bull at 225, and Impala at 177 yards all measured with my LRF 1200.

35 were shot with the Barnes TSX bullets. 7 were recovered
6 were shot with the Federal Fusion factory loads
6 were shot with Hornady Interbonds
4 were shot with the PMC factory loads

My unbiased assessment is as follows. However I must first say that I was admittedly very skeptical of the Barnes bullets based on my prior extensive experience with the original X bullet design. I must also admit to not being very impressed with the Fusions lack of velocity at only 2700plus fps. The PMC bullets were on hand and used to share the difference between factory cup and core bullets and premium handloads. The Interbonds were already a well known performer and had a lot of respect from me.

IMG_0009.JPG


IMG_0008.JPG



My rifle was zeroed with the X bullets and shooting hole touching groups at 100 meters. Prior to departure I shot a three shot group to foul the barrel. Upon arrival I shot a 2 shot group to prove the travel did not compromise the scope adjustments. There were 5 shots now through the barrel. Each hunter using this rifle also shot it before their hunt started. The Fusion, PMC, and Interbond bullets would shoot into about a 3+” group mixed POI's with the settings used for the TSX bullets.

The Federal Fusion Bullets: Underpowered for bigger game. The lack of velocity and the unpredictable bullet shapes left me unimpressed. Although they held together they under penetrated and fell short of my desired performance hopes. It’s an excellent inexpensive deer and smaller big game bullet but does not have the kind of killing power I expect with a 30/06 using other loads and bullets. A good choice for deer, impala, blesbok, but I would not likely choose them for anything bigger or even on the tough little warthog. I stopped using this bullet for further shooting on game based on the early limited performance on the recovered game and bullets. With the shallow penetration and oddly shaped mushrooms I was not confident to shoot game as tough as wildebeest, gemsbok and zebra with these bullets.

PMC Bullets: As can be expected with these bullets being Cup and Core design they will kill about like the Fusion bullets. If everything is perfect they work fine, but when something goes wrong they will not provide the edge I would like to see in my bullets. All of them failed to stay in one piece and all lost much if not all functional weight retention.

Hornady Interbonds: Work flawless and 100% predictable 4 out of the 6 were recovered and all had massive expansion with great weight retention. Another hunter used these bullets in his 30/06 AI and had identical performace and recovery percentages as my standard 30/06. The AI version was about 90fps faster at 3000fps. A better bullet would be difficult to choose. I have already posted dozens of pictures and text on these bullets in the past. This years experience is the same. It's a class act by Hornady and difficult to choose another bullet over this design.

The Barnes TSX bullet: Well this was the one that drove this project for me. Although I am very pleased with the performance. I am very happy with the results of so many deadly shots on big tough game animals. I’m still skeptical about some of what I have seen. The 7 recovered bullets look almost identical and have from what I can see 100% weight retention. Not a single petal was broken off and all expanded from the close range 40 yard shots to the longer near 250 yard shots. Some exits were massive and the blood was flowing freely. Others showed me a bore diameter hole and not a drop of blood from the exit. I’m stumped as to how these bullets exit with an exact bore diameter hole? Yet some others have a huge exit hole. I had about a 20% recovered bullet rate from these bullets. The lowest recovery percentage of any bullet I have ever used. Exits are the norm with the TSX. I had a bullet zip clean through the shoulders of a Big Zebra at 237 yards which included the vertebra and one scapula above the shoulders. This is enough mass that I have seen it stop a 270 grain Swift A frame from a 375HH plenty of times. Yet a 165 grain TSX from a 30/06 passed through. 4 zebra were shot with the 30/06. One needed a follow up shot, all 4 of the TSX bullets passed through these zebra. Only the one follow up shot was inside one of them. Zebra, Gemsbok, and Blue Wildebeest are about the best bullet stopping plains game we have. All three species were shot clean through with this bullet. Few provided a good blood trail often due to the bore diameter exit holes. Those that had good blood trails when recovered always had good exit holes too.

Here is an Impala with a noticeable exit hole but you can clearly see there is no blood flow.

IMG_2400.JPG


I have 4 other TSX bullets I could photo and post here. However they are identical to the first two in this photo. They would be difficult to tell apart had I not marked them before I left! The only oddball in the group is the one from the zebra. It was recovered inside the heart. It has a wrinkled petal which you can see in this photo. All the others are exactly the same.


The rifle was not cleaned, barrel swabbed out, or oiled during the entire trip. On my last evening I hunted hard for a warthog. I walked from 2:30 PM til dark about 6PM I was hunting alone and looking for a whopper warthog I had seen twice in the prior several weeks I had been hunting here. In the closing moments of light about 5:55 I saw what looked like a shooter. At 75 yards he was trotting parallel to the road I was on, and slightly quartering away from me through the bush. When the warthog cleared a bush and left me with a fleeting moment between bushes I leveled the upper crosshair and touched off the trigger when it was layed behind the last rib. It appeared as if I rolled him over but the muzzle flash was too bright. I walked to the spot and saw a spot of blood. Then there in the flashlight beam just ahead he layed dead. The blood flow was significant and the exit was through the opposite scapula.

Several times I tested the accuracy during the week with targets. Each time the bullets were into the 1” square “bullseye” on the target at 100 meters. With nearly 60 shots fired during this trip and no cleaning I trusted this rifle and bullet combination on the last moment shot at the warthog. There was simply no fouling problems with these TSX bullets and this PacNor barrel!

I would certainly feel a whole lot better if the exits looked like they had more consistency in size. However I have also come to another probably arguable conclusion with the TSX and the 30/06. I would much prefer to have a 30/06 with this bullet and a rangefinder then a 300mag of any make without a rangefinder. I feel 100% confident that these bullets will penetrate and shoot accurately as far as I would like to shoot. Say 400 yards or so. If you know the distance with the rangefinder hitting the target is not complicated or risky with low wind. These 165 grain TSX bullets in a 30/06 will out perform a 300 magnum with a standard cup and core bullet every time. Sure you can up weight with a 300 magnum and use the 180’s. However if the 30/06 killed 50 of 51 tough big game animals I’m not sure moving to the 300 mag is a practical choice if you want more power. I think moving to the 338 is much more logical. If shooting long range 450 yards plus is the reason then would I agree. However a rangefinder with a 30/06 is still a very do-able shot with these TSX bullets on a calm day.

So do I switch now from the Hornady Interbonds I love so much to the TSX bullets? …………..Wow talk about a tough choice! The TSX shoots a tiny bit better in Accuracy, the tips don’t deform, they seat very tight in the brass with the groves. They don’t have the 100% internal damage consistency that the Interbonds have, but they are close and I cannot explain why the exit holes are bore diameter on some of the game. I do have a photo coming of the exit on a zebra. It looks like the stallion was shot with a small broad head. It has 4 slices about ¼” long each. It’s a brilliant exit hole. Why don’t they all show this? Maybe 35 big animals under nearly identical conditions is still not enough information? I will say that If I only saw 10-12 of the best exits I would swear these were the best bullets on earth no question, hands down, end of story. I may yet agree to this statement. However there were those few that leave me wondering why a tiny little exit hole as if the bullet did not open or the petals all sheared off? ( no petals ever found inside) I will continue to use them until the first time I find one that is unopened inside an animal. If that does not happen I may not use anything else in this rifle. I think they make a better large big game, Elk, bear, zebra, wildebeest, gemsbok, eland, waterbuck, moose, etc bullet then the Interbond because the exits at least in theory should provide more blood flow. I think the interbonds will provide much more explosive impact and internal trauma on deer sized game like antelope, sheep, blesbok, impala, etc.

They do not have a similar POI or load to shoot well from my rifle. They are as incompatible with a single scope setting as possible. I will have to pick one and stick with it. So for now I’ll stay with the TSX. As far as I’m concerned the TSX does more with the available power of the 30/06 then the Interbond does. The much higher frequency of exits is a benefit to good blood trails. I know my weakness as a confirmed bullet recovery junky even though I know they should all exit.

I’m not sure you can make a mistake in choosing between the 165 grain AFrame, Interbond, Accubond, TSX, or Partition, The one that shoots best in your barrel and gets a minimum level of functional velocity should do fine. I guess having to choose between the 165 grain Interbond and the 165 grain TSX for me is actually a good problem to have.
 

larrysogla

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JJhack,
Congratulations on those long range, running shots. Your shooting skills are formidable. 3 shots, 3 hits at running game(150 yds., 250 yds., 350+ yds.). That wild pig looks beautiful and should provide a sweet aroma, tasty BBQ. Regarding calibers, my minimum big game caliber is a .30 caliber(170 grn. bullets in 30-30 Win.) all the way up to a bear buster Marlin 45-70 fueled with Garrett boomer ammo. Regarding bullets, I would choose the Barnes all copper TSX or the Winchester Fail Safe(ALL copper front half with rear lead core PROTECTED by a steel cup for maximum bullet weight retention) or the Winchester Supreme Elite(again the front half is ALL copper and the rear is lead core PROTECTED by a tail copper jacket) as hitting big heavy bones will not stop this bullets. They will just punch through and keep on going inside the animal, tearing and cutting flesh, artery and vital organs with the sharp jagged petals and exiting all the way through(on broadside shots) to the other side. THE REASON FOR THE DISPARITY in the Barnes TSX exit holes is due to some of the TSX bullets are exiting while STILL SPINNING AT THE HIGH THOUSANDS of RPM(typically around 100,000 RPM at the muzzle for a high velocity big game bullet) and thus producing the massive exit holes. The small exit holes from some of the Barnes TSX bullets is due to the bullet exiting after it has STOPPED spinning or has SLOWED spinnng to the low RPM's. The other TOUGH construction expanding bullets (Accubonds, Partitions, A-Frames, Interbonds, Grand Slams, Sciroccos, etc.) are also EXCELLENT choices as we all know. The best parameter of course is whatever will shoot accurately in the hunter's rifle. 'Nuff said.
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THE ROMAN ARCHER

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congrats on your wild pig hunt JJ, nice photo
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real good story. i look forward to my first wild pig hunt at Chopper's in 1 week with a bow and i think i will develope the passion and respect for such a tuff worthy wild game animal once i have hunted them, i cant wait to expeiriance what all you other hunters have had hunting wild pigs!...........tra
 

jjhack

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Larry, I have a significant background with bullets and internal ballistics. I would like to help you with a few concepts here that from reading your post are not exactly right.

You're correct that a bullet depending upon twist rate and velocity can achieve 100,000 or even 200,000 rpm

At the Muzzle the bullets spin will be exactly the same as the barrel imparts to it, out to about 300 yards that twist will be the same as the rotational velocity is lost a bit faster then the velocity lost in distance travelled.

Now for the hook,....... the numbers you mentioned are RPM..or....Revolutions Per Minute. A 180 grain bullet from a 1:10 twist shot from a 300 magnum covers a mile in about 2 seconds.

If we use the 200,000 RPM number and divide by 60 ( seconds in a minute) we have 3333 revolutions per second. Now that seems really fast, .....but the bullet travelled a 1/2 mile in that 1 second time span.

So a mile is 5280 feet, times 12" ( in a foot) equals 63360 inches per mile since we are using the one second time here which is the distance travelled in 1/2 mile we can divide this by 1/2 and we have 31680 inches in a half mile. Then it's simple enough to divide that number by the 3333 revolutions we had in that same 1 second time for the 1/2 mile distance.

That gives us one 360 rotation or full turn in 9.5 inches...........no coincidence that we started with a 1 turn in 10" twist and have the same twist at 200,000 RPMs. As you might see from this I chose the 200,000 RPM level rather they the 100,000 becuase I knew that was actually correct from many years of university study in this stuff.

So what does this tell us? .......Well it says that if the animal is 20" thick( broadside) the maximum 360 deg revolutions a bullet can provide while penetrating that body from side to side is two times( 1 turn in 10" travel). There is no blender effect from the bullet spin, and there is no internal ballistic effect from the churning or spinning revolutions of that bullet. Bullet spin from a hunting weight bullet has zero effect on internal ballistics. It's simply used to stabalize the projectile through the air. Bullet spin cannot be measurably greater inside the animal then it was while in the barrel of the gun. There is a slight exception to this with very thin jacket extreme velocity varmint bullets with a very fast twist, say 1:9 or faster. The ruptured jacket is peeled away on the first part of the rotation as the bullet strikes, thus exploding the internal lead through the body. This is why many varmint hunters prefer a faster twist or claim that that faster twist results in greater explosive effect.

This particular event does benifit from the very thin soft ultra high velocity varmint bullets, and a higher spin rate. However that spin is about zero RPM at the moment of impact when the bullets also explodes into bits. Hunting bullets do not work this way, for good reason!

The rotational velocity will slow faster internally then the the velocity of forward motion. The greater the bullet expands or ruptures the slower the rotational velocity will get. However the amount it can be slowed is from two turns down. It's not as if that "100,000 rpm" is in any way a real or any functional number which would somehow relate at all to additional lethal performance of a bullet. If you open up an animal that was lung hit, there is no swirled meat and tissue inside, there is nothing that has been spun around at 200,000 rpm in that body. It's just a hole going in and going out, there is no spin effect of the internal organs or to the distruction of the organs inside that body. There is no "Buzz saw" effect of the spinning jacket as some manufacturers have stated in their advertising. If two revolutions through a body 20" wide is a Buzz saw I would not be making much progress sawing wood at that speed!

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Those are actual facts, but here are some opinions from a few thousand big game killed. The Winchester fail safe was so unpredictable it's been taken from the market( last word I had). Without question one of the worst performance bullets I've ever seen used on big game, and I'm not talking deer here anything will easily kill a deer. We recovered plenty of these that never expanded, no wonder they drive through and exit so frequently. They are spire pointed solids! Not to worry they are no longer going to be produced from what I was told.

The design of the Barnes TSX is close to perfection. They still have a few nagging problems with a bullet that does not open right and they have a real problem with internal tumbling. However that is a long shot better then the bullets blowing to bits on impact. The cause of the tumbling problem is that the back of the bullet retains more weight then the front and the mass of the bullet swaps ends. If you do this long enough you will find many X bullets with the petals folded forward after they have been opened. Clearly showing they impacted correct and opened up, but began to tumble with the petals hooking into the tissue and being pulled back forward again. I can post photo's of these for you. I extracted one from the spine of a zebra that was embedded base first.

As far as the next Winchester option with the copper, lead, metal cup, and plastic tip. As if they can make all these parts somehow work togther and stay consitant in manufacture and truely identical from one to the next? I don't see it. It's just too much junk to deal with.

You can see from the post above the TSX bullets cleanly killed all the game shot and it's just one solid piece of copper. Deadly accurate and we have lost just one single animal in the last two years, which the hunter admitted as poor shot placement. All other game was killed and found. My opinions are never based on an event or two, we shoot well over 100 big to very big game a year on my hunting consession in RSA. These opinions are based on hundreds of game shot with all kinds of guns, bullets, and loads.

I still think the bonded core technology is a smidgon ahead of the Barnes for lethal consistancy. However when the animal is hit properly, and the impact velocity is within the functional window the X bullets will out penetrate and kill bigger game better then the bonded core bullets. As I said it's a tough call today we have too many good options! Hope the text above helps with the understanding of bullet twist.
 

larrysogla

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JJhack,
Thanks for reminding me that the approximately 200,000 RPM bullet spin is actually one bullet turn in 10 inch of bullet travel. The approx. 200,000 RPM bullet spin carries a lot of rotational energy so much so that the 180 grn. 30-'06 bullet is still sufficiently spin stabilized to be accurate to 1,000 yds. plus on sniper rifles(provided all weather conditions are optimal i.e. no wind, no heat mirage, sea level & humidity & temperature are all the same as when the rifle was zeroed). Just as a pure conjecture on my part, supposing the hunting bullet slowed down to 100 fps upon exit from the animal body and was still spinning at 12,000 RPM. Now, if that is the theoretical scenario that the hunting bullet exited the animal body at 100 fps and still spinning at 12,000 rpm, then by dividing 12,000 rpm by 100 fps you get 120 revolutions per foot(12 ") of travel. Or 10 revolutions per inch of travel. Theoretically, that is a lot of bullet spin in one inch of travel as the bullet exits. Personally, that is just my humble NON-SCIENTIFIC, SEAT OF THE PANTS explanation of the disparity in exit wound size. The bullet decelerates very quickly on animal flesh and exits at a very slow linear velocity(FPS) while still retaining very fast angular velocity(RPM), VOILA one big exit wound. Versus the bullet exits at a fast linear velocity(FPS) and a slow angular velocity(RPM), VOILA one small exit wound. Anything can happen inside the animal body in all sorts of linear velocity deceleration versus angular velociity deceleration in all sorts of possible combinations to produce all sorts of exit wound size. Of course I know nothing about animal body resistance, bullet shock wave/hydrostatic forces, bullet rotational energy loss, and all that scientific stuff. All I know is that hey! that bullet is coming out with big exit holes sometimes, and other times the exit hole is small. Why??? Your guess is as good as mine. Only thing that matters is that the bullet created a wound channel that is NOT survivable and incapacitates to the point of good animal recovery. 'Nuff said.
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dw33

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JJhack, congratulations on your pig hunt. Great picture with your son. My son is just starting to go on hunting trips with me also, so I know how great that feeling is. I really enjoyed reading your information on bullets -- I wish I had your knowledge. Feel free to write more on firearms, bullets, and hunting, lol. Best, dw33
 

B.L. Justice

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The ballistics stuff is interesting but I am most impressed with the Hog you took and that you took your boy into the field with ya. My boy is 4 1/2. He is a rough an tumble as they come and I can't wait to get him into the field with his grumpy old man.

Enjoy!
 

jjhack

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Larry, your thoughts on the surface might make sense but your forgetting that the term RPM is revolutions per minute.

It's only a minute to travel thousands of yards which relates to the same bullet twist through the body that the barrel imparts, ... or less becuase the rotational velocity is lost faster then the bullets velocity. Especially through flesh where the jacket (or petals in the X) have tremendous resistance catching and cutting through tissue.

Rotational velocity by Sandia Labs own ballistics engineers (inventors of the body armour used in Iraq today) have clearly stated that the energy and trauma caused by bullet spin has no measurable lethal effect in the wound channel process from bullets. They also stated that there would be less then two revolutions through the body on a complete pass through. So there is no blender or boat prop, or buzz saw effect imparted by bullet twist.

The bullet would have to be inside the body for a heck of a long time to churn stuff up, and the fact is a bullet that passes through is only in the body for a fraction of a Fraction of a second! If it does not exit, then the rotational velocity will have slowed faster then the the bullets speed due to the much greater resistance.

This is just the way it works, I have no vested interest in the outcome of this conversation, folks can believe what they like. It's just embarrasing to me when I hear some of the folklore involved with ballistics, like hearing people say that they saw a bullet lift and throw and animal they shot, or that Muzzle energy actually means something where lethal force is concerned. Too much hollywood and video gaming, not enough math and science study in school!

Remember that RPM is a measure that is totally un-usable where events are measured in fractions of second. Kinda like using a tape measure to determine the storage of a CD or DVD.

Same can be said about ME. How is 3000fpe related to what a bullet does inside and animal? If people use it as a measure to determine what is more powerful, that's even a bigger mistake. ME does not consider bullet diameter. Bullet diameter has a far greater effect on killing power then ME does.

Compare the close range effect of a 45/70 to a 270 on big game. The 270 has more ME but the effects of the bullet impact are significantly different. The 45/70 by far has the greater visual impact and power.

Anyway good conversation and a bit of education for many readers here. Enjoy
 
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