Poor Hunter behavior at Lake Sonoma.

[hatchet1]

+1 on the cat theory,that pussy has got a his own menue fo sho out there!!!

 

[muddy_udders]

I believe the skull was found before shotgun season started.
I have found numerous human turd piles with toilet paper and all this was before the shot gun season started.

I am assuming most people here own firearms and are aware of the way a few can ruin it for all. For instance the "Scary Black Rifle" ban need I say more.

I would just like to see people accountable for their actions but with limited enforcement I personally don't know how this could be accomplished.
A volunteer patrol maybe?

TRA: I will go in halves on that beacon with you. I have been tempted just to stalk WM for a day instead of hunting.

 

[oneshothunter]

my buddys and I have been going to the lake for some time now it is different more folks been there for gun hunts and wow it scary at times as for the joel deal im in for some fix the lake days would be good to meet some jho memebers and have a bbq and a beer fix up pick up the lake if we the good hunters dont take care of it joel and the powers to be will pull the plug thanks joel for trying to fix problems before it to late :archer green:

 

[scottosan]

Thanks for opening up other parts of the lake and trying to make it easy for hunters to enjoy the resources available there.
I haven't had the opportunity to hunt this year and think I will sit out the rest of the season because of the horror stories.
I first hunted the lake in 1987 and it was a great experience. It was 3 years before I got drawn again, but it was a quality hunt, well managed and made a great experience. I hope you can go back to the days of a lottery system to hunt and fewer day of hunting.
Thanks again and keep up the good work. It's greatly appreciated

 

[THE ROMAN ARCHER]

its a sad shame RangerJoel to hear about what is going on at L.S., i had agreat time bowhunting up there last month.

all i can say it is not the wepons thats the problem, its the bad hunters, thats the problem. i would like to believe that the outstanding professionals who teach the state hunters safety course would weed out all the idots who think that they can hunt, but it looks like they still slip threw the cracks of our system to ruin it for other hunters who take hunting laws and ethics serious.

with that being siad do hunters:smiley_hunter_fudd: need a refresher course for hunter safety and ehtics before the can hunt Lake Sonoma?

atiotic-wavin-flagi will admit that this statement is a little greedy, but being strickly an archer only i wish all the land i would like to hunt was archery:archer greennly, its just a dream but dreams do come true!

 

[bpnclark]

all i can say it is not the wepons thats the problem, its the bad hunters, thats the problem.

I agree but I having a feeling that the people causing the problems (shooting rifles/pistols, killing other animals and leaving trash) probably dont own a bow.

We dont need more hunter ed or refresher courses. The people causing the problems passed the class the first time and they'll pass again. They dont care. They dont follow the rules.

Get rid of the shotgun season and you'll get rid of 99% of the problem.

 

[Speckmisser]

Just gonna chime in here with a couple of thoughts. Consider the source, as I haven't hunted Lake Sonoma, and it's possible that I never will. I don't really have a dog in this fight, but I'm a little stunned by some of what I'm reading.

But, first and foremost, the folks who are calling for a total end to the shotgunners sound a lot to me like the folks who are calling for an end to all of the hunting at the lake. Blame the whole group for the actions of the bad apples...

Getting rid of the shotguns will likely NOT end the problems at the lake. Sure, maybe there'll be a downturn, because you'll have less people using the place. But the complaints from neighbors and non-hunters will continue, you can count on that. And then what... ban the archers too?

If I were considering options, I'd have to say that maybe a limited draw for shotgun AND archery would be the best choice I've seen here so far. Manage the number of users at any given time.

Institute a fee system. That will help as well. It doesn't have to be prohibitive, but something to help offset the costs of extra clean-up, fence-mending, and general maintenance. Sociologists have shown that people tend to be more respectful of something they're paying for than of something they get for free.

Joel, you guys may also consider the idea of working for the hunting privilege. Johnston Community College, in NC has implemented a unique and innovative program at their Howell Woods Environmental Education Center, where hunters can either pay to hunt, or they can sign up to trade work for hunting opportunties on the place. This started as a hog control program, but quickly expanded to whitetail deer.

It's turned into something completely different than it started, but it seems to be working well for the College and the property. You can read more about it here.

Other than that, the hunters need to step up their self-policing and maybe the park could come up with a reward system for those who turn in violators. Put the informants into a special lottery for one of the deer hunts or something.

Add in a couple of weekends of enhanced enforcement, maybe, to get the message across. Post up pictures of violators and their crimes at the public areas and kiosks. Put the heat on the jerks, because they are the ones who will ruin it for everybody... it's not everybody ruining it for the jerks.

Other than that, banning shotgun hunters (or any hunters) seems to be contrary to the whole point of the hunting program at Lake Sonoma... at least as I understand it. It's not just about hog management, but also about providing a rare, quality, public-land hunting opportunity for Californians. Management could be more efficiently and effectively done by blocking off all hunting, and bringing in a couple of trappers... just as they're doing in other parks around the state.

 

[bpnclark]

Some of us that are asking for the Shotgun season to be ended are asking so hunting will still available for years to come.

One accident, more poaching/tresspassing and more trash will close hunting at Lake Sonoma forever. Once its closed it probably will never be open again.

And more than likely, that one accident (that will close everything) will be because of one dum**** with a shotgun that had no idea what he was doing.

 

[Huntr Pat]

I would suggest to close a few weekends to hunting period and have volunteer work for mending fences and installing boundary signs. Even if its to help neighbors mending boundary fences. I would be interested in attending. I havent Bowhunted LS in couple years and have personnaly met Ranger Joel. I would be happy to give back by voluntary work. I also would also share my camper to one or two other volunteers/Bow hunter that would be happy to help out with exspenses/gas cost & food from Gilroy Non smoker preferbly.

Ranger Joel Its seems to me that the motivation is there for hunter to help lets set a date.
I'm sure there may be a liabilty issue. But I'm sure if coordinated right this could be done safely.

 

[TRey]

Good response Speck...I like the idea of the fee system. I'd pay some money to get my permit and the money could be used like you suggested. You have a few good ideas in your post.

 

[slanttop357]

1,200 hunters :skeered:

 

[sancho]

1,200 hunters :skeered:

this weekend, i found a good wallow. the water in it was clear, so i assumed it hasnt been visited for awhile. last time i saw it, it looked like gray milk. i moved into the trees to show my wife what a hog wallow looked like. she was impressed. anyways, not 15 feet past the wallow i find a pile of human excrement, topped with toilet paper. it was gross. i wont say who left it as far as shotgunner or archery guy. kick a hole in the ground dude! and dont lay it down in such a sweet ambush point!

i dont mind the shotgunners. i respect any legal hunting. i have considered buying a sluggun, since LS got opened to them. very tempting. i think, simply making the guys read some general rules and good manners list would help. some people are clueless. i would lose sleep if i littered out there. 1200 hunters isnt the problem. it is the folks that are clueless that make 1200 look bad.

 

[muddy_udders]

I would suggest installing boundary signs. .

Since you haven't hunted there yet I will let you know the boundries are well marked with metal Corp of engineer signs driven into the ground at what I believe to be close intervals. You have to truly make an effort to leave the property.
I usually hunt the fence lines and haven't seen a spot that wasn't fenced or marked yet.

 

[JSK]

Ranger Joel et al,
Longtime lurker, first time poster, might as well jump in here I suppose. I live just down the road from the lake (just moved here last summer) and so really do appreciate the very local opportunity to hunt some public land. Thank you first and foremost to Ranger Joel and his staff for allowing us to hunt the lake.
I’ve been out a few times with my bow, but have avoided the shotgun season entirely so far, given all of the horror stories being told here, and from people I’ve run into in town etc. When I signed in as a hunter in January (?), my hunter number was in the 600’s…now it’s in the 1200’s and I wouldn’t doubt that the majority of the second 600 are shotgun hunters.
So is the problem that the number of hunters has doubled, or that a bunch of people have showed up with shotguns? Probably both I would guess.
One thing that is true is that archery hunting (I do hunt with firearms) takes a lot more patience, and practice, and ultimately dedication than does pulling the trigger on a slug gun. Take that for what you will (it is not a slight against gun hunters), but I would be willing to bet that the average archery hunter up there has done less “damage” than the average shotgun hunter. Has the problem at the lake simply doubled with the opening of shotgun season? It seems from the posts on this forum and from Ranger Joel’s comments that it has more than doubled, and so it seems as if there are more yahoos carrying guns up there than bows.
Not dragging down on the gun hunters (again…I hunt with guns too), but opening the Lake to shotgunners has arguably changed the tone up there. At the end of the day, eliminating the shotgun season would reduce the problems dramatically if one is to believe that the problem blossomed once the shotgun season opened, which it certainly seems as if it did. Again, number of hunters, or the weapon they are carrying??? Probably both.
But shotgunners love pigs too, so maybe just set the bar a little higher for all hunters…like the idea of requiring a more thorough orientation…that would probably do quite a bit to weed out the people who aren’t following the rules of the lake hunt and or for that matter just plain common sense about conducting a respectful hunt that takes into account your surroundings, boundaries, other hunters, general safety etc. I think too that a more thorough check in would help as well…it would make people feel much more accountable for their actions. Splitting the shotgun season to the first 2 weeks and last 2 weeks would probably lessen the impact, or at least spread out it out. Requiring volunteer hours prior to receiving permission to hunt the lake would be a great way for everyone to give back a bit.
All good ideas posted by others, and hopefully some fodder for Ranger Joel to make the hunt more manageable, and at the same time help him with his pig population. Thanks to everyone for posting your thoughtful responses. We do have a pretty rare opportunity here to engage with “the host” of the public hunt so to speak, so good on everyone for speaking up, and representing what good hunting (with whatever weapon is your poison) is all about.

 

[Beastie]

Some of these responses are coming straight from La La land. More orientation, spliting the season, requiring volunteer work all nonsens. The volunteer program sounds good, but should not have to be a requirement. The realistic side of this is that there will always be people that are not going to follow the rules. They were taught that way, and they will stay that way, unfortunately. Its a simple problem of numbers. The more people you allow, the greater likelyhood that there will be these unethical, disrespectful people. Simple as that. For this situation, the most reasonable approach is the limit the amount of hunters during the shotgun season and have hunting dates assigned to the hunters in that month so there is accountability. There is obviously not an issue with overcrowding during the archery months. Therefore, restricting the amount of people during February, both shotgun and archery hunters, is the most reasonable solution.

 

[slanttop357]

this weekend, i found a good wallow. the water in it was clear, so i assumed it hasnt been visited for awhile. last time i saw it, it looked like gray milk. i moved into the trees to show my wife what a hog wallow looked like. she was impressed. anyways, not 15 feet past the wallow i find a pile of human excrement, topped with toilet paper. it was gross. i wont say who left it as far as shotgunner or archery guy. kick a hole in the ground dude! and dont lay it down in such a sweet ambush point!

i dont mind the shotgunners. i respect any legal hunting. i have considered buying a sluggun, since LS got opened to them. very tempting. i think, simply making the guys read some general rules and good manners list would help. some people are clueless. i would lose sleep if i littered out there. 1200 hunters isnt the problem. it is the folks that are clueless that make 1200 look bad.

Your right my friend dig a hole or at least cover it with dirt, :smiley_doh:

 

[ORElkBow]

Hi, I know I'm an out-of-state'r, but I just want to say, man what some great country to hunt in. Thanks R.Joel. I'm hunter #410 and came there on Dec. 27th and 28th. Wow the numbers have grown within the past two months.

I do believe though, that most of us hunters blame each other, and do forget about the others. Let me tell this little experience. During the two days I hunted there, I saw more hikers then hunters and many fresh human you know what. I had to cover a few, even though it wasn't mine, just so others wouldn't have to see what I saw. It was only me and my hunting partner on that side of the lake hunting except for the hikers.

So to say, I believe it would be everyone, from hikers to hunters to whoever enters the lake, to keep it nice and clean.

Whatever your decision R.Joel, I believe that it will be for the good and maybe us Out-of-staters will still have the oppurtunity to come bowhunt in one of the most beautiful country side of Cal.

 

[j30004x4]

Ya know I hunt both bow and shotgun and I will tell you this year there is more bow hunters than last. I have yet to go up for shotgun but assume there are more of them as well. I to have seen piles of *&^% and garbage in the archery only side and durring the archery season. I think one group is trying to blame the other, it has been my experience that bow hunters don't particulary like firearm hunters. Like I said before I am not trying to single out any one group I am sure that shot gunners are doing the same thing and mabe a little more. As for the people using the wrong kind of fire arms being used I have not seen this myself, and those people are not true hunters if they were we would not have that problem. Trying to exclude one group and not another will cause all sorts of problems for the park i think. All I would like is a safe place to take my son and teach him the hunter way. A big plus for me is the Lake is only 30min from home so lets all try and help out to solve this problem.:smiley-mouse:

 

[Huntin G]

If the real purpose of this hunt is to reduce the pig population, then I think shotgunning should be allowed. It should probably be allowed in all the open hunting areas and during all the open hunting months. What needs to happen is the rangers need an efficient way to excerpt some control over whats going on out there. A simple way might be to only allow hunters, whether gun or bow, to hunt if they have a reserved and payed for campsite. If campsites are full no more hunters. This would reduce the number of hunters at any one time and make checking up on hunters alot easier. Rangers could easily walk through camp checking for rifles/pistols and making there presence known. Also, if a bunch of trucks are parked along the road without a campsite permit displayed the rangers could just wait and see if people come out of the wood with a gun or bow then write a hefty fine. I'm sure this wont make everyone happy, but this is California.

 

[westcoastr]

never hunted there and probably won't anytime soon as don't own a shotgun, bow, or boat AND it sounds like a zoo - not my style - i don't want to see a single person! but in general i think the idea of check stations would be great. I am finding more and more poached deer and hunters without tags/permits or with a forbidden weapon (i.e. guns in an archery area). although this wouldn't stop the guys that shoot and leave the entire carcass.