Recommended rifle

[Friday4me]

I am sure many people have asked a question essentially the same as mine. I already have a 30-30, and a .243. I am considering another rifle for larger pigs, deer, and possibly elk some day.
It would probably be more for hogs than anything else as I live in San Diego. I am sure everyone has differing opinions much as in the literature. I have read (my reading is not very extensive) that some people like Chuck Hawks thinks a .270 is adequate. Others have written a 30 caliber is the minimum. Some say I should get a 7mm mag.
I haven't fired any of the 30 calibers (30-06, .308), 7mm mag, or .270 and I am curious how do they compare in terms of recoil. I have heard and read conflicting opinions.
I am posting this with the hope I will get some experienced and sound advice. I appreciate any suggestions and comments you have.
Thanks for your time!

 

[jdp080563]

I like the 300 win short mag. Moderate recoil ,good trajectory,and plenty of power.however .270 on up will do the job.

 

[myfriendis410]

If you plan on hunting elk, go 7mm r.m. or bigger. The .308 is too small. I am a fan of the big 30 calibers and like the previous post, the short mag is a good choice. The win mag may be a better choice simply from the standpoint of ammo selection. If you handload, the sky's the limit. I do prefer the 300 win mag because I can shoot a 200 gr. bullet at 3,000 fps. which is grand medicine for elk. Works fantastic on hogs too. Quite a bit too large a caliber for our little deer though.

 

[studmanbri]

I recently upgraded myself and had many of the same questions. I bought a 7mm mag. and I have to say it is awsome. Buy a limbsaver recoil pad as i did and the recoil is nothing. It shoots flat and hits hard. I took mine out three weeks after i bought it and dropped a hog in its tracks. I'm not used to that as i've been shooting them with a .308 for some time and they usually run a bit. Not this time: Boom, whap, thump! I hunt deer in san diego as well and the 7mm might be a little over powered for the size of buck you have down there but who cares! It shoots so flat it is perfect for some of the long cross canyon shots i always seem to get out there. I exit wound on my pig wasn't bad at all so i don't think it will be a huge issue of meat loss. It will also kill anything in north america. Go 7mm and get it in a Tikka lite and you won't be sorry. Remember only road hunters buy pretty guns, real hunters get dirty and so do their guns.

 

[baco]

In my opinion you cant beat the 30-06. It has readily available ammo in many different grains, and is proven (not saying the others are not). I took a bull elk and a oryx this year with the 06 shooting 150 grain winchester belistic silver tips and both animals were one shot kills dropping on the spot.

 

[fishnhunt]

In my opinion you cant beat the 30-06. It has readily available ammo in many different grains, and is proven (not saying the others are not). I took a bull elk and a oryx this year with the 06 shooting 150 grain winchester belistic silver tips and both animals were one shot kills dropping on the spot.

+1 for the '06...For the reasons above. You don't need a huge caliber rifle...The most important thing is how well you shoot it and can handle the kick. My GF hunts elk with a .243 sometimes because she shoots it better than an '06. Also +1 for the Tikka T3 they are a great gun for under $550 (made in finland by sako).

 

[Speckmisser]

30-06 is a great, and versatile caliber, and a great choice out of the many great choices already listed. For a general, all-around rifle, it would get my first vote. It's not sexy like a super-duper magnum, and it's not a laser-like speed demon, but it's highly effective at realistic hunting ranges, and has all the oomph necessary to take any big game you'll hunt in the lower 48 or Hawaii. (Big Alaskan bears or African game might need a little more.) The -06 is also good medicine on smaller game like coastal deer and antelope. Recoil is definitely noticeable, but it's not punishing. The weight and design of the rifle will determine how much of the recoil is transferred into your shoulder. Good shooting form will also alleviate some of the discomfort.

7mm mag isn't a bad call, but the recoil can be a little more than some people want to deal with. It certainly isn't unbearable, but it's no joke. Aftermarket parts, like a pad and/or brake will gentle the beast. Terminal performance is proven, and the flat trajectory does lend to longer shots in the hands of a skilled marksman.

.300 Win Mag is probably the most popular elk rifle out there right now. It's got a lot of "oomph", shoots flat and long, and ammo is pretty widely available. A good package if you're going to do a lot of that kind of hunting. It's also a great hog gun, with the authority to put the biggest boar in the dirt. It's way more than you need for coastal deer, but with the right bullet you're not going to blow them up or anything. Recoil can be fairly stout, especially in a lightweight rifle. As with the 7mm mag, aftermarket parts can address that.

.270 is an excellent round that doesn't always get the respect it deserves. It's much easier on the recoil than the -06, but offers almost as much oomph and excellent performance over reasonably long ranges (flat and fast). I'm personally partial to the heavier 30 caliber for hogs and elk, but the .270 is fine medicine too, if used with common sense and restraint.

There are a ton of other options, and it can really get confusing. Modern guns and ammo have really come a long way in the past century, and with them have evolved generations of argument and debate over what's "best". Don't get too wrapped up in all of that. It's fun to debate, but if you're looking for the perfect round, you'll never find it by sorting through opinions.

Recoil is subjective, and what is a mule-kick to one person may be a gentle shove to someone else. You should really try to find the opportunity to try some different guns and calibers. Ask around of friends, or maybe here on JHO, and see if there are folks who can meet up at the range for an afternoon. It may cost you a burger or a beer, but you'll get a much better idea of what you're in for when comparing say, a .270 to a .300 Win Mag.

The key to remember is that you want something you'll enjoy shooting so you will shoot it a lot. If you're intimidated by the recoil, you're not going to spend the time with the rifle that you should. Mastery comes from familiarity.

Good luck!

 

[Friday4me]

jdp080563, myfriendis410, studmanbri, baco, fishnhunt, and Speckmisser,

I want to thank you all for your honest advice. I am leaning towards a 7mm mag or a 30-06. I looked at some reviews online about the Tikka T3 and they all spoke praises about it. I most likely will be getting one.
Studmanbri - did you purchase a slip on limbsaver, out of curiousity?

 

[hiline345]

All good advice. I shoot a 300 win mag and I also have a 30-06 both Winchesters model 70's. I love those guns but that is just me. The key thing is good shot placement and like one of the other guys said get a gun you can shoot comfortably cause if you aren't then you probably won't spend the time at the range shoot it well. Good luck on your search.

 

[Marksman]

My choice is the '06 and i liked it so much i bought another one.The caliber has a lot of bullet different weights and that's a real + if you reload.It is also able kill anything we have in the USA.

 

[NorCal]

Go with the 30-06 or the 308. Both good calibers and not much recoil.

 

[tpuig]

This is all really good advice. Just consider that you may want to hunt elsewhere. I never actually thought about a particular caliber in terms of a new rifle. All mine were bought second hand and just happened to be good deals. Right now I can grab a .250 Savage Model 99, a .30-06 or a 7mm Mag. They were all great deals that just sort of fell into my lap. But realistically I can shoot anything in North America with no problem. The .30-06 and 7mag you can find ammo all across the US in hardware stores. If you even <think> you might hunt elk or something bigger, you may consider a more powerful cartridge. But the recoil is important. I regularly put 40-60 rounds of 7mag down range to make sure I can hit a target. It does kick, but I still shoot it. After that, the others are very easy to shoot. All good choices, but you need to consider how YOU shoot and how often. If you go for bigger game, a bigger caliber is usually the better choice, but bullet placement is more important. Just be good with whatever you choose.

 

[richracer1]

Another consideration is at what ranges are you comfortable shooting? I wouldn't hesitate to use a 270 something, 7mm-08, or even a 308 to hunt elk with, given you keep the distances short as opposed to what all of the other calbers mentioned are capable of.

For those that don't like the 308 Win, compare the ballistics on a 150gn bullet fired from a 270 Win and a 308 Win. I looked at Remington's & Winchester's ammo charts and surprise, the difference is very minimal.

 

[weekender21]

Almost any centerfire rifle caliber will work on large game such as elk when used responsibly. I personally wouldn't recommend it but plenty of elk fall every year from well placed shots from calibers like the 25-06, .243 etc. Most hunters consider the .270 a minimum elk caliber.
One thing to consider is the energy delivered by each caliber. You can shoot the same exact bullet in a .308 and a .300. The downrange energy delivered by the two at say 350 yards will be dramatically different. While each would be sufficient for smaller boned animals at that distance, I would say that you are under-gunned at that distance with the .308 for elk and possible even large mule deer.
If you're a "one rifle" hunter then it would be hard to argue against the 30-06 or the .270 for all the reasons mentioned in above posts but there are plenty of calibers that would out perform both and would work for anything you'll encounter in North America except maybe large brown bears in Alaska or Canada.
I'm a .300 WM fan because of the ability to take game at longer distances. The recoil can be a bit much for some hunters especially with a light rifle.
The WSM family (.270WSM, 7MM WSM, .300WSM) All offer efficient calibers in a short action rifle. I own a custom .270WSM and would not hesitate taking it on an elk hunt, yet it makes a great rifle for everything all the way down to coyotes with the right load.
As a final note, I would recommend staying away from the .308 family (.308, 7mm-08, .243) All offer plenty of energy when used responsibly but there are too many calibers available today that outperform the group in every aspect. The only thing they offer, IMO, would be substantially lighter recoil.

 

[Friday4me]

richracer1,
I don't know any better, but I am guessing I won't be shooting at anything greater than 250 yards. I read these stories of someone who spent all day hiking up and down canyons with a pack, etc. and then make a 400+ yard shot when resting their elbows on their knees. I am sure that can happen with a very skilled shooter. I just don't see myself attempting something like that.
What do you consider a reasonable distance for shooting elk with a .270?

 

[richracer1]

I currently have a self imposed range limit of 350 yards. With that being said, I would use a 270 Win, WSM, WBY or 308 Win coupled with a premium bullet out to that distance on elk. Here is a Remington comparison of a 150gn bullet from a 270 Win and a 308 Win. Look a close look at the energy chart, plenty of energy out 350yds.


<TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=630><TBODY><TR><TD>Cartridge Information
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 630px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small" id=DataGrid1 border=1 rules=all cellSpacing=0><TBODY><TR style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><TD>Index Number</TD><TD>Cartridge Type</TD><TD>Weight (grs.)</TD><TD>Bullet Style</TD><TD>Primer No.</TD><TD>Ballistic Coefficient</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: gainsboro"><TD>R270W4</TD><TD>Remington® Express®</TD><TD>150</TD><TD>Soft Point Core-Lokt®</TD><TD>9 1/2</TD><TD>0.261</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><TD>R308W1</TD><TD>Remington® Express®</TD><TD>150</TD><TD>Pointed Soft Point Core-Lokt®</TD><TD>9 1/2</TD><TD>0.314</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR><TR><TD>Velocity (ft/sec)
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 630px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small" id=DataGrid2 border=1 rules=all cellSpacing=0><TBODY><TR style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><TD>Cartridge Type</TD><TD>Bullet</TD><TD>Muzzle</TD><TD>100</TD><TD>200</TD><TD>300</TD><TD>400</TD><TD>500</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: gainsboro"><TD>Remington® Express®</TD><TD>150 SP CL</TD><TD>2850</TD><TD>2504</TD><TD>2183</TD><TD>1886</TD><TD>1618</TD><TD>1385</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><TD>Remington® Express®</TD><TD>150 PSP CL</TD><TD>2820</TD><TD>2533</TD><TD>2263</TD><TD>2009</TD><TD>1774</TD><TD>1560</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
</TD></TR><TR><TD>Energy (ft-lbs)
<TABLE style="WIDTH: 630px; BORDER-COLLAPSE: collapse; FONT-FAMILY: Verdana; FONT-SIZE: xx-small" id=DataGrid3 border=1 rules=all cellSpacing=0><TBODY><TR style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold"><TD>Cartridge Type</TD><TD>Bullet</TD><TD>Muzzle</TD><TD>100</TD><TD>200</TD><TD>300</TD><TD>400</TD><TD>500</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: gainsboro"><TD>Remington® Express®</TD><TD>150 SP CL</TD><TD>2705</TD><TD>2087</TD><TD>1587</TD><TD>1185</TD><TD>872</TD><TD>639</TD></TR><TR style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: white"><TD>Remington® Express®</TD><TD>150 PSP CL</TD><TD>2648</TD><TD>2137</TD><TD>1705</TD><TD>1344</TD><TD>1048</TD><TD>810</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[I'M DK]

Rich,
Nice chart with some useful info.
Unfortunately it's like comparing apples and carrots.
The .270 bullet is a round nose.
The .308 is a pointed design.

Using a Nosler .270 150gr. Partition is more appropriate.
BC .465...SD .279
FPS
Muzzle .100.. 200.. 300.. 400.. 500
2850... 2645. 2450 2266 2091. 1926

Energy
Muzzle 100.. 200.. 300.. 400. 500
2705... 2331 2000 1711 1457 1236

You can see how much ballistic coefficient resulting from bullet profile can affect down range performance.

Compare these numbers against the 308 150 Core-Lokt load.
Which I would not choose as a elk load.
For elk I would look for a sectional density (SD) around .275.
SD for a 150gr .270 is .279.
SD for a 150gr .308 is .226, not enough for me to be comfortable.

I think a heavier bullet makes the 308win a decent elk cartridge.
The same can be said for the right bullet in the 270win.
Neither of them is a stand out performer when you compare against more powerful options.

If I had elk in my backyard, I could afford the time to be selective about which animal, what distance & shot angle.
That is not the case for me or my friends.
As such my choice would be my 300 or a 338 mag.
They give better range & penetration than lesser cartridges.
All of which improves my odds of success on a hunt.

One last thing to consider.
1000ft/lbs. is generally recommended as minimum for deer.
1500ft/lbs. is a common reference as minimum for elk.

Just thought I throw my two bits worth into the discussion.


DK

 

[richracer1]

I think a heavier bullet makes the 308win a decent elk cartridge.
The same can be said for the right bullet in the 270win.
Neither of them is a stand out performer when you compare against more powerful options.

If I had elk in my backyard, I could afford the time to be selective about which animal, what distance & shot angle.
That is not the case for me or my friends.
As such my choice would be my 300 or a 338 mag.
They give better range & penetration than lesser cartridges.
All of which improves my odds of success on a hunt.

DK

I agree that there are better choices, but just to blatantly say a 308 is not powerful enough is BS. EVery time some asks this type of question, most replies are throwing out the big mags, big calibers, but not everyone can handle their recoil. The point I was trying to make is the 308 Win, 270 Win, 7mm-08 are all capable, out to a certain distance with premium bullets, for those that can't handle the recoil of larger/more powerful cartridges. Also, using these less powerful calibers means they must be able to get closer to their intended game to make a good shot.

If you read back a few threads I asked the guy at what range he was able to shoot. He response was well within the less powerful caliber capabilities. I think I was the first to actually ask him about his shooting abilities.

 

[myfriendis410]

Original loading for the 45-70/405:
BC of .302 SD of .272
Muzzle 100 200 300 600yd.
1,850 1639 1416 1229 987fps.
Energy
3,040 2 418 1803 1333 844ft./lbs.

They shot BISON with this load at 1,000 yards. and used this cartridge 'cause it was economical and killed with one shot at long range. (Close to three times the size of a bull elk)

Based on the previous criteria, it would be inadequate for elk beyond 250 yards. I'll take that gun/load over a .308 ANY day. Looking at a bunch of ballistic charts alone will get you into trouble and we are just going back to the old Keith/O'Conner argument: velocity versus momentum. There is an argument for both, but neither tells the whole story.

I will get in trouble for saying this, but this is MY opinion: I would not hunt elk OR big pigs with a .308, period. It was designed as a mankiller and certainly appropriate for some game, but not for the big tough stuff.

 

[I'M DK]

but just to blatantly say a 308 is not powerful enough is BS.

Some opinions are based on experience.
Some on personal comfort zone.
Some on following the herd.
Some on complete and total nonsense.
Where that opinion falls, often is only opinion as well.

I don't believe there has been any bad advise offered in this thread.
A few opinions that are not agreed to by all, big surprise there.

Friday,
Given your belief 250 yards is a likely max, jdp080563 pretty well said it all in the first response ".270 and up will work".
I'd like to add the usual qualifiers.
With the proper bullet & shot placement.


DK