Scent lok worth the money?

[RtWill78]

I've been hunting for years, and I generally pay close attention to the wind and hygene and cloths odors etc, but it seems like everyone of my hunting buddies has scent lok or scent blocker. My question, is it worth the money? Scent blockers site says, "Forget the wind, just hunt" surely you can't really just forget the wind can you? Any way, I'm going on my first Elk hunt next month (Archery to Colorado) and I am thinking about picking some up, I just want opinions from THOSE WITH FIRST HAND experience please. Thanks,
RT

 

[azbiggame]

For a Nv antelope hunt,this year,purchased Cabelas-MTP hunt Series,in Tech Silk Weight,to where under "Light" bow camo.Very satisfied,with results of "Containment" of body scents ??? Use clean pair each day,but might not need too ??? "Pic" is of small Buck,straight "Downwind" at under 30 yds,in front of Blind,this product does work

 

[oregoncritters]

Every penny...I'm on staff for them, so i may be a little biased, but it can buy you more time....Maybe only a couple seconds, but that may be all you need..

 

[camo snob]

No, the concept is good but.....no

 

[ducslayer]

What about,head,breath,anything your clothes have touched?just hunt into the wind it works for me.No product can make up for good hunting skills.

 

[gwhunter69]

http://www.huntingscience.com/products/Default.aspx

 

[Zbearclaw]

In my experience in the whitetail woods it is another tool available for use. I have a set of scent Blocker buglites, and northernlites, I believe those are the correct names, a few years old. I have had deer downwind and never even knew I was around, and I have had deer a hundred yards down wind that busted out of there like I had slapped them, I believe it does work to a certain extent, and will buy you some more time. For me I will prob not buy another set.

good luck.

 

[montana13]

The link to the chewing gum that suppresses human scent sounds a lot like those pills that claim to improve your shooting. Also, if it did work, wouldn't you think that it would cost more than $4.99?

 

[SDHNTR]

Don't these carbon based suits need to reach 1000 degrees or something in order to reactivate? Which means that once you use it for a few minutes and fully saturate it with stink, it becomes worthless. Your regular clothes dryer will never get it hot enough to reactivate the carbon.

The suits also make you sweat like hell, which makes you even more stinky.

I bought one a while back and I can't tell if it works any better or worse than regular camo. As such, I came to the conclusion that it is probably not worth the money. IMO, washing your clothes in scent free soap, hang drying, not wearing them until you are ready to hunt, and certainly hunting into the wind will do far more good than simply jumping into your Scent Loc suit.

But if it makes you feel more confident and if you believe it will help you kill more game, by all means use it. I just think it's popularity is based more on crafty marketing than anything else.

 

[Coues]

I think the clothing is more useful for hunting in a blind or a stand but is probably useless for spot and stalk or still hunting. At least in the temperature ranges I hunt.

As far as that spray on stuff that is supposed to help eliminate odor, I think it is a rip off. I would have more faith in a cover scent.

 

[SDHNTR]

I found this great article which pretty much debunks its usefullness.

Activated Carbon Scent-Control Suits

Do they work? Have hunters and the hunting industry been duped?

By T.R. Michels, Trinity Mountain Outdoors

Over the last few years several questions have arisen as to whether or not activated carbon clothing suits work as advertised to keep hunters from being detected by deer (that might smell the odors given off by humans or any unnatural odors associated with the humans while they are hunting). The questions asked include: Is there enough activated carbon in the scent-elimination suits for them to work as the manufacturers claim? How long will activated carbon continue to work? Can the suits be re-activated as the manufacturers claim they can be? Are activated carbon suits adversely affected by humidity?

Activated carbon is used as a filter medium because it has an affinity to "volatile organic compounds". When humans perspire they emit volatile organic compounds and other chemicals, such as hydrogen sulfides, which can be trapped by activated carbon. The manufacturers of activated carbon scent-control suits claim their clothing works because the activated carbon (which is glued to or impregnated into the fabric of the clothing) blocks the release of human odors, or "traps" the odors by a chemical bonding process called "adsorption".

Adsorption occurs when activated carbon grabs and holds other compounds, including gases, scents and odors, at the molecular level. The amount of odor that an activated carbon filter medium holds is determined both by the amount of activated carbon in the entire medium and by how thick the layer of activated carbon on the fabric is. In the case of a scent-elimination suit, the carbon layer is very thin, which means there is very little activated carbon in the suit. In fact, the scent elimination suits are so thin that they hold relatively small amounts of activated carbon, and the activated carbon is so widely spaced in some suits that the suits allow air and odors to go through the suit without coming into contact with and being trapped by the small amounts of carbon in the suit.

One of the problems with trapping odors by adsorption is that adsorption continuously occurs, unless the activated carbon is kept in an airtight unscented bag from the moment it is first activated. Since activated carbon will eventually become full of odors, it cannot work any great length of time. If activated carbon clothing is not put into a sealed bag the moment it is activated, and kept that way until it is used for hunting, it will have adsorbed numerous odors. Depending on how thick the layer of activated carbon is in the suit, it may not work to stop human odors the very first time it is used.

In an attempt to bring some legitimacy to their products, the manufacturers of scent-control clothing have acknowledged this to some extent. Many manufacturers recommend that the clothing should be immediately washed, and then "re-activated" by placing the suits in a clothes dryer as soon as they are purchased.

Do activated carbon suits work as claimed? When the laboratory at Purification Process was asked to test a popular activated carbon scent-control suit they found there wasn't enough in the suit to even test. In a test with search dogs, by JA Shivik, Ph.D., forty-two people were hidden from Colorado search and rescue dogs. Twenty-one of the people wore activated carbon suits; twenty-one did not. The dogs found all twenty-one people who didn't wear activated carbon suits, and twenty of the people who wore activated carbon suits. There was no noticeable difference in the time it took the dogs to find the humans. It took the dogs 2.7 minutes to detect the humans who were not wearing activated carbon, and 3.4 minutes to find the humans who were wearing activated carbon suits.

Shivik's report states, "That the dogs detected humans wearing the suit indicates that the system failed to prevent detection of human odors." Since deer have a sense of smell equal to if not better than dogs, it is safe to assume that deer would have detected the humans too. The report adds, "The suits are probably not worth the cost to researchers or managers who want to approach canids undetected." They probably aren't worth $150 to $300 to hunters either, if they can't keep deer from detecting the hunters.

The military also uses activated carbon clothing, commonly referred to as Chemical Warfare Suits, but they are limited-use, disposable garments, not intended for multiple use, because, according to the paper The War Next Time: Countering Rogue States and Terrorists Armed with Chemical and Biological Weapons, the new JS-LIST suits worn by the armed services "provide 45 days of wear versus 22 days for the BDOs." These chemical warfare suits have several times more activated carbon in them than the suits currently being offered for hunting purposes; and they only last for 45 days! This document can viewed on-line at: http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pu.../schneider2.pdf.

An interesting comment in the document states, "In addition they can be washed up to six times without losing protective qualities." This suggests that clothing made with activated carbon becomes less effective every time it is washed. It also suggests that after six washings, the Chemical Warfare Suits, which are made to US Government specifications, and have more activated carbon in them than the activated carbon suits worn by hunters, are ineffective after six washings! And yet, the loss of activated carbon due to washing, and the eventual ineffectiveness of the suits due to washing, is not clearly stated by the manufacturers of the activated carbon scent-elimination suits in any of their literature, or on their web sites. Note the reference to heavy perspiration in the following article, which will be talked about later.

In 2005, the Scent Lok web site at www.scentlok.com stated:

(begin quote)

"When and how to wash: During warm weather when only a T-shirt is being worn as an undergarment and heavy perspiration is occurring, it is advised to wash your suit periodically. During cool weather when heavier undergarments or layers are worn, there is no need to wash the suit. Washing does not have anything to do with reactivation, but does get rid of unwanted body oils (caused by perspiration), blood, and dirt. Washing a Scent-Lok suit can be done 1-4 times per season without fear of losing carbon from the suit. The permanent ClimaFlex treatment, that is on all Scent-Lok branded suits made during and after 2001, aids in the extraction of unwanted body oils in high perspiration areas when washed. Use only non-scented liquid clothes wash or preferably carbon wash. Once a garment is washed per label instructions it should be put in the dryer on a no heat setting until dry. Once the garment is dry, follow the reactivation instructions. ClimaFlex treatment is also a wicking agent, which adds to the overall comfort of the suit during warm weather."

end quote)

Note: This article has since been removed from the web site.

The comments in the US Government document mentioned above suggest that it is likely that the actions of both household washers and dryers may result in the loss of some of the activated carbon in the scent-elimination clothing worn by hunters.

Can Activated Carbon suits be re-charged as manufacturers claim?

Scent-Lok, one of the largest producers and the only licensor of activated carbon suits, states that their suits can be re-charged by placing them in the clothes dryer for 20 to 30 minutes to re-activate the carbon. On their web site in 2005 they also stated that heat from a clothes dryer causes "Brownian molecular motion" causes the scent to move very fast, which breaks the molecules free from the activated carbon particles, which supposedly re-activates the suits.

In 2005 the Scent Lok web site stated:

(begin quote)

"How are odors released?

It is common knowledge that heat makes molecules move more rapidly. Reactivation is only obtained by using a clothes dryer. Reactivation is achieved by placing the suit in a dryer for twenty to thirty minutes on a medium to high heat setting or according to the label instructions. The heat from the clothes dryer creates what is scientifically known as Brownian molecular motion, which causes the scent molecules to move rapidly. This movement breaks the molecules free from the surfaces of the activated carbon particles and interior pores of the carbon, and allows them to eventually exit out of the dryer vent."

(end quote) Note: This article has since been removed from the site.

In order to re-activate activated carbon a process referred to as "Pyrolysis" is used. To completely re-activate an activated carbon suit saturated with human perspiration it has to be heated to about 800 °C; or 1472 °F. And it would have to be done in a controlled atmosphere with low oxygen concentration to reduce the possibility of combustion. This is clearly stated in the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers - Engineering and Design, Adsorption Design Guide, Design Guide No. DG1110-1-2, which can be viewed on the internet. At 500 degrees F the suit will be nothing but carbon. Even if desorbtion was possible most household clothes dryers do not reach temperatures over 200°F, which is not high enough to release the trapped odors in the scent-elimination suits. It is highly unlikely that activated carbon suits for hunting use can be recharged, with the result that the suits will eventually become full of odors, to the point where the charcoal will no longer trap odors.

In defense of their statements that their suits can be re-activated Scent Lok maintains that the word "reactivation" is a loosely used term. In reality "reactivation", as it applies to activated carbon, means that the adsorption capability of the carbon has been totally and completely re-activated. They have stated that the garments aren't "totally reactivated" after they are first washed and put in the dryer, but that they are partially "regenerated" or "desorbed". Supposedly this partial regeneration is enough to allow the clothing to again adsorb more odors.

While some desorption can occur when activated carbon is exposed to temperatures lower than 750 to 1500 degrees F, there is a point when the temperature is too low to desorb activated carbon. A Virginia Technical University study shows that activated carbon can be partially desorbed between temperatures of 100 to 649 degrees Celsius. One hundred degrees Celsius is 212 degrees Fahrenheit. This is the extreme low temperature during which "partial desorption" of odors and gases may occur. However, as stated above, most household clothes dryers produce less than 150 degrees Fahrenheit; which suggests that the activated carbon suits sold to hunters cannot even be "partially regenerated or desorbed". (The above-cited study is study was originally available on the Internet by logging on to: http://www.ce.vt.edu/program_areas/environ.../sketcarb.html)

The use of the term Brownian molecular motion on the Scent-Lok web site is also inaccurate. The use of this scientific term seems to add some credibility to the claims about activated carbon. There is no reference to Brownian "molecular" motion, because Brownian motion does not involve molecules, but rather small particles.

The web site at http://schools.matter.org.uk/Content/Brown...ion/Default.htm states, "Brownian motion (or Brownian movement) can be defined as 'the random movement of microscopic particles suspended in a fluid. " Brownian motion has nothing to do with the re-activation or de-adsorbtion of activated carbon, because the term is only used only in reference to "particles suspended in a fluid," not to the motion or activity of gaseous odor molecules released by activated carbon that is subjected to heat in a clothes dryer.

Are activated carbon suits adversely affected by humidity?

One of the statements on the Scent Lok web site in 2005 mentioned "heavy perspiration", which may occur as a hunter walks to their hunting site, and may result in high humidity between the hunter's skin and the suit for several hours after the hunter stops walking. The Army Corps of Engineers document cited above also states: “Relative humidity above 50 percent may result in adsorbed and condensed water vapor blocking the pores of the particles and interfering with the diffusion of the contaminants to the adsorption pores.”

What this means is that if a hunter wears activated carbon clothing while hunting, when the relative humidity conditions are above 50 percent, or if he sweats, the suit won't work. No matter what the relative humidity conditions are outside, activated carbon clothing may not work, because the act of walking alone will cause the human body to sweat, resulting in a relative humidity of 50 percent or more between the body and the suit. By the time the hunter arrives at their hunting site the activated carbon in the suit will be saturated with moisture, and it will be useless. Hunters can find this government document on the Internet, and so can the manufacturers of activated carbon clothing. But, neither it, nor the information in it, is mentioned by any of the activated carbon clothing manufacturers in their advertising, nor is it mentioned on their web sites.

Conclusion: If there is not enough activated carbon in the suits to trap human odors; if the suits used for Chemical Warfare lose effectiveness after six washings and are effective for a maximum of 45 days; if activated carbon scent-elimination suits do not keep dogs from detecting humans; if the effectiveness of activated carbon is affected by humidity above 50 percent; then it is unlikely that scent-elimination suits using activated carbon can work to keep hunters from being detected by deer during hunting situations, especially if the clothing is worn more than 45 days, or washed more than six times. Many hunters use their suits more than 45 days in a year, and wash it more than six times in a year, which means they will probably have to buy a new suit every one to two years.

Do hunters have other options?

Fortunately for hunters there are other types of clothing designed to reduce or eliminate human odors on the market. One of them is No-Trace, which uses cyclodextrene (the same active ingredient used in some popular new air fresheners) to trap human odors. The manufacturers claim that placing it in a washing machine with unscented hunter's detergent can recharge their clothing.

Does anti-bacterial or anti-microbial type clothing work?

Hunters can also use anti-bacterial type suits work for the reduction or elimination of odors caused by bacteria when used for hunting purposes. These suits include Contain, which uses anti-bacterial ingredients in the fibers of the fabric of the clothing, and X Scent, which uses silver threads in the fabric of the clothing. Both products reduce or kill the bacteria or microbes that produce the odors associated with human perspiration, thus they reduce the amount of human odors that might be detected by deer and other big game animals.

Licensing Agreements

In the early 1990's Scent-Lok applied for and received a patent on the use of activated carbon for several different applications and/or articles of clothing used in conjunction with the control, reduction or elimination of scents, including human related or human produced odors, while hunting. Since the granting of that patent Scent-Lok has done what any company holding a patent does; they have aggressively protected the patent, warning several companies not to produce clothing meant to control, reduce or eliminate unwanted odors while hunting, whether the clothing contained activated carbon or not.

Is the Scent-Lok patent valid?

Recently some questions have arisen as to whether or not the Scent-Lok Patent is valid. On May 11, 2005, the United States Patent and Trademark Office mailed a document to Scent-Lok, notifying them that "Claims 1-10" of their patent were temporarily "subject to reexamination" and were temporarily "rejected". According to the document, Scent-Lok had until July 11, 2005 to respond to this document. Failure by Scent-Lok to respond "will result in termination of the process and issuance of an ex parte reexamination certificate in accordance with this action." The document cites "Popper" and "Floyd" as previous patent holders and may imply that Claims 1-10 of the Scent-Lok patent are invalid, because either Popper or Floyd covers the claims under previous use. Previous use of those claims would invalidate the portion of the Scent-Lok patent making those same claims. The Patent Office document states, "The clothing of Popper is capable of being used to avoid detection of wildlife through the senses of smell as the clothing in its normal use is worn on the body." This seems to suggest that several of the claims in the Scent-Lok patent were already patented in the Popper patent.

The document further states, "The nonstatutory double patenting rejection is based on a judicially created doctrine grounded in public policy (a policy reflected in statute) so as to prevent the unjustified or improper timewise extension of the 'right to exclude' granted by a patent and to prevent possible harassment by multiple assignees." As of June 2006 the Patent claims 1-10 of the originally applied for Scent Lok patent on activated carbon suits used for the purpose of eliminating human scent or odors hunting have been rejected. However, Scent Lok has resubmitted a claim for a new or revised patent, using different terms, but still using the same general ideas.

 

[hunthog]

Pretty much a waste of money. If you believe you can, "just hunt, forget the wind" you are believing the marketing hype they would like you to believe and you will kill less game if you wear their gear and "forget the wind."

It's much the same as camo. Big game animals are color blind so if you wear clothing that has the same basic tones as the area you are hunting the pattern has no meaning at all. Blaze orange camo is a perfect example. If you look at it through a black and white video eyepiece it looks exactly like the same pattern camo in brown, green and tan. The game animal sees exacly the same black, grey and white.

Larry D Jones said it in a seminar I attended many years ago. "Prey animals, especially big game animals, have a keen sense of smell developed over centeries of evolution designed to avoid predators such as you. If you wear a cover scent such as skunk, fox, pine, or Elk in heat you simply smell like a human a skunk pissed on, a human a fox pissed on, a human in a pine tree or a human a Cow Elk in heat sat on. You still smell like a human and the only way to keep a game animal from smelling you is to hunt downwind of him."

I believe the same applies to "scent "eliminating" sprays" and "scent "eliminating" clothing". No matter what you wear you will only be constanly successful if you hunt the wind. I could "possibly" see some advantage wearing it in a stand but spending the money for it, hiking 5 miles into the bush, hunting all day in it makes it a total waste of time and money. Face it, humans stink, we know it, the animals know it and if you hunt upwind an Elk will still smell you 200 yards away Scent Lok or not. The worse part is, that you will never know it because he will be so far gone by the time you arive you'll just keep believing there are no Elk there.

hunthog