Spider Bull down

[wingbone_2003]

Thanks for clearing the air Roy im glad ill never be able to afford to put myself in that kind of position ill just stick with trying to chase these Pacific Hybrid trophies that fascinate me so much

 

[Sigma]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

As for the hunt itself.....well, I'm not a fan of these "posse" guides that hire folks to scour the area offering "finders fee" for particular animals. It's wrong and will be the demise of our sport if it's not put in check. I understand the hunter spent 30 days up there and only wanted to kill this bull......which shows a lot of dedication, but when you use a posse of folks to hunt it down, it tarnishes the adventure, IMO.[/b]

"Posse." I was thinking the same thing. When an outfitter or guide has a large group of individuals targeting a specific animal accompanied with goons, road blocks, aggressive behaviour and intimidation on public land, that's crossing the line. Wonder if G&F really WANTS to mess with this issue. After all, it's all about money and prestige isn't it?

 

[DEERSLAM]

This is what is posted on the Boone and Crockett web site.



Denny Austad hunted with MossBack Guides and Outfitters for 13 days before connecting with this potential new World's Record non-typical American elk on September 30, 2008. It is being reported that this magnificent 9 x 14 bull elk green scores 488 net B&C points and grosses at 500-4/8 B&C points. The abnormal points alone total 130 inches.

If these measurements hold up after the required 60-day drying period and Mr. Austad enters the bull, it must meet Boone and Crockett Club's trophy entry standards before it is accepted. In the event the entry score is near or above the current World's Record, a Special Judges Panel will convene to confirm the final score and subsequently whether the bull is an official new World's Record. The current World's Record non-typical (465-2/8 points) was found dead at Upper Arrow Lake, British Columbia, in 1994.

 

[Cold1nhand]

In the red corner we have BOHNTR and in the blue corner we have SUAVEGATO. Lets shake racks and have a good clean fight!!

 

[hank4elk]

We knew someone would get him. As for the Mossback CREW or any other with similar tactics of HOUNDING game ALL YEAR LONG to MAKE A BUCK IS B.S. These are NOT FAIR CHASE hunters. A outfitter or guide is one thing, but this crap of shed hunting while scouting on winter range, and following it ALL SUMMER to put a potential client on is B.S. A bull can get that big on public land even in the land of raghorns. I was part way through a Mossback video and turned it off too. What a CLOWN! These CREWS of "HUNTERS"are the new market hunters and will be the demise of a 10,000 year history. The history and ethics of REAL OUTDOORSFOLK! I'm 53, with no kids to have to witness it. Maybe I should go buy a trophy?

 

[bpnclark]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richardoutwest @ Oct 2 2008, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Man I hope that I NEVER take a world record animal in my life.[/b]

I hope I take several world records.

 

[SCREWLOOSE]

That bull is FREAKISH...

 

[Sodhunter]

Gov tags that allow someone to shoot a free ranging animal out of season or with any advantage over joe public because they have money is CRAP! That animal belongs to everyone and the govt. sells it to highest bidder and pockets the money. Just because the money goes to wildlife we stand for it. They just use the money that should have come from the budget for these programs for more beaurocracy. The fact that they DO sell the tags however means that if you want to buy one and shoot a huge trophy and show it off to your friends or the world is up to you . Hunting is a personal spiritual thing for some and a contest for others. Whatever floats your boat. You hunt for your enjoyment, I hunt for mine. If it's legal to shoot fenced animals knock yourself out. When the contest ceases being between me and animals, and turns into a contest between me and other hunters or guides etc, I'm out. Enjoy your trophy. If you wish to compete in that contest though, good luck and I hope you enjoy yourself. You want to drive around in a truck and get out off the road and shoot the first legal thing you see that's your right. Have fun. If guides or hunters are doing illegal (or unethical things), turn em' in. If not I don't feel the need to condemn them or belittle them cause the client chose to get help with his hunt and paid for it. I also enjoy seeing a few pics and if he enjoyed the trip I'm happy for him. If we critique every post or picture and rate how hard or easy or pure the hunt was we'll get less posts. I know I went with my son and took home 2 does one morning with our bows. I thought about posting up but thought because we saw some does from the truck, only hiked a couple hundred yards, and had two eaters in the truck by 9 someone would probably have something to say about road hunting does and then if I happened to be into a toddy or feelin pissy I may end up responding and now my fun morning outing becomes a bone of contention as opposed to a primal stress reliever. I guess what I'm saying is, hunting is like religion. It's a personal thing that you do for your own satisfaction in your own way and if someone critisizes your way it's offensive. Auctioning off tags to high bidder is still crap though even if you think it's not! JK

 

[hank4elk]

Amen SD. I'm off to find a elk BY MYSELF. See ya.

 

[FredtheGad]

Don't sound like hunting to me sounds like a lot of ego to me with all the money involved and a dozen people blocking and scouting for ya, pretty sad when I think about. I don't call that hunting. Id rather chase a forky by myself all season long than do something like that.

Money and greed

 

[suavegato]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Sodhunter @ Oct 10 2008, 11:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Gov tags that allow someone to shoot a free ranging animal out of season or with any advantage over joe public because they have money is CRAP! That animal belongs to everyone and the govt. sells it to highest bidder and pockets the money. Just because the money goes to wildlife we stand for it. They just use the money that should have come from the budget for these programs for more beaurocracy. The fact that they DO sell the tags however means that if you want to buy one and shoot a huge trophy and show it off to your friends or the world is up to you . Hunting is a personal spiritual thing for some and a contest for others. Whatever floats your boat. You hunt for your enjoyment, I hunt for mine. If it's legal to shoot fenced animals knock yourself out. When the contest ceases being between me and animals, and turns into a contest between me and other hunters or guides etc, I'm out. Enjoy your trophy. If you wish to compete in that contest though, good luck and I hope you enjoy yourself. You want to drive around in a truck and get out off the road and shoot the first legal thing you see that's your right. Have fun. If guides or hunters are doing illegal (or unethical things), turn em' in. If not I don't feel the need to condemn them or belittle them cause the client chose to get help with his hunt and paid for it. I also enjoy seeing a few pics and if he enjoyed the trip I'm happy for him. If we critique every post or picture and rate how hard or easy or pure the hunt was we'll get less posts. I know I went with my son and took home 2 does one morning with our bows. I thought about posting up but thought because we saw some does from the truck, only hiked a couple hundred yards, and had two eaters in the truck by 9 someone would probably have something to say about road hunting does and then if I happened to be into a toddy or feelin pissy I may end up responding and now my fun morning outing becomes a bone of contention as opposed to a primal stress reliever. I guess what I'm saying is, hunting is like religion. It's a personal thing that you do for your own satisfaction in your own way and if someone critisizes your way it's offensive. Auctioning off tags to high bidder is still crap though even if you think it's not! JK

[/b]

well said, well written.

P.S. nothing for me in Oregon... My buddy got a decent fork, only buck (we) saw on the property... Oh well, "next time"! Heading back up in a few weeks for either sex Elk, off to Utah on Wed. for the deer opener!

 

[Vermonster]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bpnclark @ Oct 6 2008, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richardoutwest @ Oct 2 2008, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man I hope that I NEVER take a world record animal in my life.[/b]

I hope I take several world records.

[/b][/quote]


I can see his point though. In any aspect, sports, hunting, fishing, you always get the naysayers. The big bass at Dixon, this elk, a big whitetail shot in Michigan a few years ago, don't remember the guys name. It seems that there are just people out there waiting to disprove you.

The only place I see more mudslinging is in politics........

 

[ebolavirs]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BOHNTR @ Oct 2 2008, 07:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

Question, if I pen raise a world class animal, and then transport it to "public land" for execution, is it then considered a fair chase record?[/b]

Amazing how things get started on this site.......Guys, this bull was NOT a pen raised animal. You should know your facts before posting crap like that. It was wild and free ranging on the Monroe unit in Utah. It was filmed by many people throughout the summer on the hill. His sheds from last year were picked up on the winter range by some folks in Utah and unfortunately, will be worth some money now. This bull was hunted during the archery and gun season on the Monroe and was not taken. He was located this week about 15 miles away from his summer home.......rutting in an area......probably a habit he made that allowed him to survive some years......until he got so big everyone and their brother was searching for him.

As for the hunt itself.....well, I'm not a fan of these "posse" guides that hire folks to scour the area offering "finders fee" for particular animals. It's wrong and will be the demise of our sport if it's not put in check. I understand the hunter spent 30 days up there and only wanted to kill this bull......which shows a lot of dedication, but when you use a posse of folks to hunt it down, it tarnishes the adventure, IMO.

I also no longer support these type of tags......and I'm tired of hearing what they do for the wildlife. PROVE it! States have been offering these governor tags for mule deer for quite a while now.......yet our deer herd is still the same.....terrible.

Auction tags that allow you to hunt anywhere in the state are fine.....as long as you hunt with the appropriate weapon for the season that is open at the time........and you should have to hunt when that unit is open, IMO. No free year-long hunt with any weapon you choose. Of course those tags will go rom $100,000 to $1000 in record time.......which the departments don't like. It's a double edge sword for our G&F.....they need the money, but pimping out our wildlife to the highest bidder is not the way to go, IMO. Okay I'm off rant now.
[/b][/quote]

I have heard and seen all the same info minus the shed story. If those sheds were found, they would be posted all over the net by now. Any pictures? What is suspicious about this bull is that he just "showed" up this summer in a very popular elk unit that is hunted by big names every year. Nobody has any film/pictures/sheds before this year that anyone is aware of. The bull's complete lack of fear of humans also is fishy. Maybe Mossback didn't know but this bull just appearing out of nowhere is odd.

 

[wmidbrook]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

The only place I see more mudslinging is in politics........[/b]

Funny thing is that if you have guests over, I've never heard them mudsling any antlers or mounts on the wall from spikes to trophy speciments! Lol

BBS's are an entirely different animal. All aspects of a hunt can get sliced, diced and is open to comments, praise and even criticism in the context of these forums. It can stretch one's mind a bit more than most guests will, but it can also be quite a bit more irritating at times too.

Like quite a few others feel about the subject, I'm not against hunting hard and taking trophy animals. I'm not against spending money and time to do so.

I sure can relate to BOHNTR's sentiments on this because "posse" hunting at some point really seems to detract from what my concept of hunting is all about. Also, I think most guys facilitating these auctions couldn't tell you what percentage goes back into wildlife vs. beauracratic bloat. I doubt most gubermint officials could tell ya either.

In the one extreme you get guys throwing keggers in little farm towns, tossing money around, finders fees and "gifts" for GPS coordinates big animals, flyovers, field scouting teams, etc....then it turns into a bidding war...who'll pay the most for that biggest animal we have proof...etc. etc....there are even guys working the bulletin boards who feed info back into some of these guiding teams. I could tolerate that but when the gentlemenly ethics taught in hunters' safety are tossed out the window, that's where I get a bit outraged.

On the other hand, you get big groups of friends & family helping each other if one of 'em draws a tag...that definately has a different tone to it. It's similar to posse hunting but definately a different form and way of hunting than hired-hand, "posse hunting".

Should record keeping bodies such as B&C, P&Y have different catagories for book animals that were guided, team guided, self-guided, or friend and family group hunts? ...it gets complicated and messy for sure.

 

[bpnclark]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Vermonster @ Oct 11 2008, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bpnclark @ Oct 6 2008, 02:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (richardoutwest @ Oct 2 2008, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Man I hope that I NEVER take a world record animal in my life.[/b]

I hope I take several world records.

[/b][/quote]


I can see his point though. In any aspect, sports, hunting, fishing, you always get the naysayers. The big bass at Dixon, this elk, a big whitetail shot in Michigan a few years ago, don't remember the guys name. It seems that there are just people out there waiting to disprove you.

The only place I see more mudslinging is in politics........
[/b][/quote]
It’s funny, but out of all hunters/animals that break the records and all the hunters/animals featured in all the magazines every year, this is the first time I have heard or read anything like this “Spider” bull. I hope the rumors aren’t true.

 

[bpnclark]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wmidbrook @ Oct 12 2008, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Should record keeping bodies such as B&C, P&Y have different catagories for book animals that were guided, team guided, self-guided, or friend and family group hunts? ...it gets complicated and messy for sure.[/b]

Guided and Non-Guided should be the same. I’m not sure about “Team Guided”. If Outfitters use 5-30 people to drive an animal to a hunter (or just use them to keep an eye on it) that is not hunting. My

 

[suavegato]

It's kinda like steroids in baseball with regards to the records... Some guy goes out 100% natural and hits “X” home runs or scores a record Bull Elk. Another guy has a team of Doctors doping him up or scouting and doing drive hunts for him and he takes a record. Both are "in the book" but one is crap and one is respectable... does B&C need to start using asterisks’?
Sad, sad, sad...
I think I'll just meat hunt from now on. Heading to Utah on Wed. for Central zone opener. I hope I just take a little forky

 

[wmidbrook]

I'll be suprised if there are any changes to how entries are made in B&C in my lifetime. I doubt "posse" hunting will be ever be illegal. If anything, I imagine "posse" hunting will get more popular & spread just like big corporations suck up all the little ones unless F&G agencies and policy makers keep a lid on max outfitter size....kinda unlikely...USO, Team Mossberg...and soon others will emerge...the Cabelas' oligarchy in TAGS etc....so much for "free enterprise" lol.

Best of luck in Central! We do have a little snow up top so they could be a hair lower than usual.

 

[DEERSLAM]

You can only "posse" hunt with an Outfitter if you pay big buck$ for that service. If you notice most of this Outfitter posse hunting is done with Gov. tags and other big dollar tags. If you pay the big money for the tag and are hunting for the biggest critter in the woods I guess getting more guys out looking is a pretty smart move. If it is not illegal, even if we don't agree with it ethically, we've got to stop bashing other hunters and their methods.

The antis love this division among us.

 

[Speckmisser]

Bloody trophy hunters.

It's just one danged elk, folks...not the whole herd. Yeah, the tactics seem kinda crappy to me, too, but really... so what? Does it really, honestly take away from the experience of anyone here? So you can't go shoot "Spider Bull"? Fine, go shoot another elk. Does it have to have all that crap on its head to make it worthwhile?

The heck with abolishing "posse" hunting. How about abolishing the record books and the whole publicity aspect of shooting a big animal? How about coming up with a new part of the Lacey Act or something to make it illegal to collect money for sport-killed "trophies"? You wanna show him off? Fine, show him off. But you can't get paid for it and you can't sell the trophy.

Let's cut to the chase here... who's to blame? The rich guy who can throw money at the hunt? The companies who take his money and then do anything necessary to find and isolate the animal for the rich guy?

Is it the TV shows and magazines who perpetuate the idea that you're no hunter at all unless you kill the biggest, baddest trophy specimen in the woods (only kids should shoot the little stuff)?

Or is it the trophy hunting organizations who've put so much emphasis on antler and horn that folks have totally lost sight of what our sport is about (and here's a hint... it ain't about competition) and created an entire culture and industry around "bigger is better" and "small is not good enough."

I can certainly appreciate a prime specimen of any species, and wouldn't hesitate to take a trophy animal if it presented itself. But I also refuse to be embarrassed or apologetic when I shoot something that falls short of "record book consideration". I can guarantee that it is no reflection of my ability as a hunter (or lack thereof), and it certainly has no relationship to the size of my genitalia. I believe that every game animal we take has value, not just the "great big ones".

I have some respect for the discipline of some individuals who dedicate themselves to only taking top animals. But I also recognize that a large percentage of the top, record-book animals are taken by little more than chance, and usually by a hunter who is doing the same thing they have always done. Right place and right time... nothing special about that.

I read this thread, and others like it, and I'm amazed by the pure venom that's being dumped here. Why are some of you folks so intense about this? It seems to me that this is as much a part of the problem as the Mossback guys strong-arming other hunters away from this trophy animal.

If you don't like what this game has become, then don't be a part of it. Stop supporting the organizations who want to sell you a spot in their record books. Hunting is a contest between predator and prey, not between man and man. If you want to tally scores, take up golf.

But if you choose to continue to see hunting as some sort of competition, then you need to accept the fact that the player with the most resources (time, money, personnel, equipment) is going to have the upper hand. This thing with the "Spider Bull" and others like it is the future of trophy hunting.