tough hogs?

[captdavid]

First let me state that I have had no experience on hogs over 300-350lbs. Second, let's restrict this to proper caliber, bullets and distances. In my opinion 264 caliber 125-129gn @ 2800fps is about minimum when 300lb hogs might be encountered. In my experience using 150gn 7mm and 165gn 300 caliber bullets at impact speeds between 2100and 2600fps 1s all one needs on hogs. If this combination takes out at least one shoulder and hits the heart/lung the pigs never go more than a few yards, if any. BTW, I use Partitions. A guy, at the range the other day, told me that he was going to start using his 338Mag on pigs as his 300mag wasn't killing them fast enough. He was using 180 Xs. A few were running 30yds before dyng while others that he hit solid ran off not to be found. Of course it occurred to me: how did he know how he hit them if he never found them?
I don't find pigs 'all that tough' if hit properly. Any pig shot through the heart/lung cant/won't go far I have heard that a deer shot H/L will live less than 9 seconds before the brain shuts down from lack of oxygen. A pig can't be much much different. Most 'tough' pigs are shot 'too far back'. That's why the are lost. capt david

 

[easymoney]

IMHO,
You brought up some good points and opened the proverbial can of worms...
There are many good guns in many calibers, and in the hands of a good shot with a rest, one could take huge animals with small calibers.
I use two calibers for all my big game hunting, a 264 win mag win model 70 and 300 win mag in same gun, both with hand loads and noslers. I Personally I feel shot placement is much more important than caliber size. I have seen crack shots get buck fever and blow a shot on an easy 100 yard full broadside. Every year on public land hunts for wild pigs, I see people spraying away at running game and I know even if they did hit them, it was non lethal shot.
I have taken pigs up to 300lbs with my 264 and dumped them with one shot, but now I don't usually take pigs over 150lbs at all. I use my 300 win model 70 on pigs, muleys and elk and with 180 noslers it also puts them down with one shot.
All things being equal and the fact some game animals can be very tough to put down even with a huge cannon, because they are just very tenacious, especially pigs and elk. I think if you take a rest and wait for the right shot you will most likely get a one shot kill.

 

[Freedivr2]

Not easy to figure, really........

Hogs without a doubt, are tough critters. I use a 30-06 with handloaded Nosler 165 grainers. I've had a few drop on the spot, but many of the double lungers ran 50 yards (all hogs within the 100 to 300 lb. range). Then two weeks ago, a shot to the heart to a little 160 lb. sow and she ran 75 yards (downhill). I thought it was just incredible that the bottom 1/2 of the heart was completely blown apart/missing and she kept running that far. Go figure.....

 

[Val]

I once read that how far animals run after a lethal heart or lung shot, has to do with the amount of oxygen in the blood stream at the time of the shot and the amount of adrenaline that's in the blood stream. If they just took a breath they will run farther.

 

[beastslayer]

In my latest hunt last May, the pig just dropped on the spot with the top part of the heart completely vaporized. It was a 240 pounds est. on hoop. Gun is a Win 94 on a 30-30 150/160 grain. The bullet mushroomed beautifully.

I can't imagine how far an animal can go with just 9 seconds before the brain shuts down even by the acceleration or remaining momentum of the muscles.

I remember a tale claiming that a man under a guillotine would have some awareness a few seconds after his head is severed. I am not sure, no one lived to tell a tale to confirm whether this is true or not (lol).

 

[Rancho Loco]

9 seconds = 50 yards.

It's hard for me to buy into any "shoot them in the boiler room, and they'll drop on the spot" argument.

Personal experience has shown me that one hog shot through the heart and lungs will flop over dead, while another shot in the exact same spot will do the death sprint.

And the too big/too small caliber argument gets old quick. I'm glad it doesn't raise it's ugly head around here too often. In fact, I'm looking to smoke a hog or two this weekend using my .444 marlin - just because I want to, and it's fun to shoot.

 

[jackman]

I have shot 12 hogs with a .243 cal 100 grain. One shot one kill.

TO QUOTE WALTER BRENNAN: "NO BRAG JUST FACT" TWO OF THOSE PIGS WERE AT 205 YARDS

 

[bigolbuck]

I have shot 4 pigs between 60-200 pounds. All pigs shot with 30-06 150 grain bullets. All between 20-80 yards.Two pigs died from head shots, Both dropped and did the funky chicken dance. One I shot from up above it and shot it threw the spine. He Dropped and did the funky chicken dance. I shot a big ol sow threw the heart dropped and did the funky chicken dance. I telll you what, I recomend head shots... a lot less meat loss!

 

[upper]

How about 27 hogs 22 long rifle, One shot 27 more things to do,up to 260 lbs.All legal kills. I did use a 32 Win. special on a 300 lb. plus sow,or my son did,shot it a little below the eyes and had to redo. Upper

 

[larrysogla]

Where can I find these pigs that do the "funky chicken dance"? Some folks are just crackshots and will place the bullet where it will do the most damage for a given shot angle. Some folks like me are just aiming for the shoulder or just center mass if the game is about to bolt like greased lightning in a fraction of a second. Hey whatever works.......right???? As long as we bring home the bacon......who cares if it is a .223 micro pill or a 45-70 howitzer. Hit the hog on the head with a 60 grain Barnes X .223 bullet and it will be pork chops on the freezer. Hit the hog on the shoulder with a 45-70 Garrett Buffalo Buster round and you will bring home the bacon too. Any caliber else in between and if you hit the vitals(vaporize the heart, shred BOTH lungs) and you will bring home the bacon, pork chops and steaks too. Many animals will survive and run for a long time with only one lung functioning and with the other lung punctured or deflated. So, for me I opt for the calibers that will punch through BOTH lungs and EXIT most assuredly on a 200 lb. hog. Hogs are not that hard to kill, just hole the heart, shred both lungs or blow their brains out and they are YOURS. Jim Matthews and Durwood Hollis of California Hog Hunter Quarterly stress the need for bullet penetration to reach the vitals. That for me is the key to the whole effort, take out the vitals and the hog is anchored. 'Nuff said.

 

[Speckmisser]

It's funny that this perennial topic never really gets resolved.

Folks kill hogs with pointed sticks on a regular basis, slung from a stick and a piece of string and moving well below 300 fps. I'm sure that in many parts of the country where hogs are considered more vermin than viand, the .223 and .22mag have taken their share. Heck, I watched on video as a man shot and killed a 200lb sow with a .22cal pellet gun! You don't have to have a cannon.

BUT...

The question should be more about optimal, not minimal caliber for killing the game we pursue. We shouldn't be asking about the smallest thing we can use. If someone asks me to help them pick a caliber for pigs, I'm gonna start at 30-06, unless I think there's some reason they can't handle that much gun. Sure, a smaller caliber will work. Some of them will work every bit as well as that 30-06, depending on shot placement. But I believe in hedging my bets.

Optimal means a round that will work ALMOST every time. Nothing is 100%. I've heard more than one tale of hogs hit with the .300winmag that ran like rabbits. It happens. But a round that will turn most marginal hits into a good kill, or at least a good blood trail can mean the difference between a lost or crippled animal and "bringing home the bacon." And that's the round I'd recommend.

I've said it before, and I'll repeat. Most hunters, in the heat of the moment, will take a marginal shot instead of waiting for a better opportunity. That's just the way it is. Why promote hunting with marginal calibers as well... doubling the odds of failure? I'd no more send a new hunter into the field for hogs with a .243 than I would send a new fisherman after marlin with 30# test. In the right hands, under the right conditions, both will work fine. But there are better choices.

So you Annie Oakleys out there with your small-bore hog guns... go for what you know. I'm not going to judge you. But when it comes to educating new hunters, then I'm always going to err on the side of caution.

In the words made famous by Robert Ruark, "Use enough gun."

 

[captdavid]

As I said in my opening, I believe that a bigger gun, to a point is better. Where I hunt, there are enough hogs that we don't have to take marginal shots. Most of our hogs are shot under 100yds and feeding or walking slowly. Many are shot over bait. Most is stand or hide hunting. I shot around 6-7 pigs last year using the head/neck/ear/eye shot. One of these was shot with the bulley exiting the off shoulder. the other was shot through both shoulders. I aimed not where I hit. I am not a bad shot, pigs just scoot alot. I think that using a 264 caliber up and a relatively tough bullet. Back to my original point. Hogs, hit correctelynot counting CNS shots aren't all that tough! capt david

 

[bigolbuck]

Funky chicken dance implies when an animal is shot and starts to convulse. Like a chicken dose when you cut its head off.

 

[Rancho Loco]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Hogs, hit correctelynot counting CNS shots aren't all that tough![/b]

Any critter who can run 75 yards with a chunk of lung hanging out of an exit wound (double lung shot) from a .300 win mag is without a doubt - a tough animal.

 

[easymoney]

rancho,
I've seen it too... I shot one in the breadbasket, broken shoulder heart/lung shot and it ran away about 100yds, dead on it's three feet...

 

[Boaring]

As a guide now for 11 years and have been part of hundreds of pig kills with various calibers I feel that the large calibers are no better than the smaller ones. People are always asking me about the perfect gun for pigs and I always reply that a .270 with a 150 grain bullet is deadly. I only say this after watching pig after pig die from this round. I shoot a 30-06 and it to I think is a great caliber for pigs. The bullet in the .270 is heavy enough to penetrate the biggest pig, but not so powerful that it blows through the pig without causing much damage. I've watched pigs get hit with 45-70 and 416 mags that have ran much farther than a pig hit with a .270 round. This past weekend I had 4 hunters and killed 5 pigs (http://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1621043/m/634106105). 4 of the 5 pigs ran after being shot and all four were hit squarely in the chest for a heart and/or lung shot. One was shot with a 375 Steyer at 70 yards also. Seems like a pig will fall over in its' tracks only if it's hit in the head or squarely in the front shoulder. If you hit it in the ribs behind the front shoulder it will generally run. I've seen 200+ pound boars run for 200 yards across an open barley field after being shot through both lungs.

I'd buy a .270 if I were in the market for a new gun. Not to mention it would make a great gun for hunting most western U.S. big game.

 

[beastslayer]

Easy - So you actually hunt? I thought you are just here for the politics (lol).

 

[easymoney]

No, beastie I hunt, another reason to live in "darn near paradise"...
I'm just bored because deer season hasn't opened yet and duck season is a long way off...

 

[Nic Barca]

So long as you hit them good, pigs are just like any other animal; they die quick. But they do have a few other qualities that do make them tough. A wounded pig is about as tough a wounded animal as can be and their immune system is terrific allowing them to survive infection. Their skin can be hard like armor and the pad tries to close up arrow wounds. If it does close up the wound, the lung might still function and the animal could keep going. Of course, if it's a good double lung hit, the animal would collapse and die but with high arrow shots, this sometimes happens. The pad might also be capable of stopping buckshot and other low power bulky bullets. My arrows usually do not penetrate the second heavy pad resulting in a one sided bloodtrail with no exit hole. The only time pigs strike me as tough is when I make a bad shot with archery gear. You really really really need to play them by the book because if you push them, you probably wont get them. Minimum 8 hour wait for any gut shot, but it's often hard to wait and not wise. Badly shot pigs in Hawaii are pretty much gone. If you wait, rain could wash away the trail even though the animal is likely within 100 yards. You push for a second shot and you spook the pig and chase it all over creation until the blood runs out.

As for what bullet calibers... a lot of people use .223 here in Hawaii and that sized gun kills fine: a double lung shot scrambles the vitals and a spine or head shot drops them on the spot. But what I'm concerned about more is the blood trail. Pigs are notorious for bad blood trails. A lot of calibers will kill the pig no problem but it would be best to have something in the thirty caliber size in order to ensure a good blood trail if the animal runs. I use 12 gauge slugs. That's a weak gun compared to a high powered rifle but when it hits the pig, it puts a big hole and packs a wallop. Don't usually get any exit hole but the pig is dead. Large margin of error too with a bullet that size. A lot of damage is done and little meat is wasted because it's the bullet doing the damage just like a broadhead does damage. It's not like high pored rifle where the shock of the bullet does the damage.

Good shot placement and a large caliber (.30+) are whats important. That's my opinion.

 

[Killzone]

I put 185 grn core lock right through the heart of 190 lb boar, it ran like it was not even hit, fast about 150 yards , so no telling how far they can go when lung hit.