- Thread starter bimlie80
- Start date
I'd like to give PETA the blame (as well as the sharp edge of a mean stick) but the vaccine issue is different. Crofab is the new vaccine and it has been in short supply thanks to contamination during manufacturing. It works better against hemotoxicns and apparetnly neurotoxins but the jury is still out on the latter. Speaking of PETA, think I'll have some Kentucky Fried Chicken today.
Rifleman,
These clinics are held throughout the west, at least. There are comparatively few guys that do it and they travel. A lot of QU or Pheasants Forever chapters book these guys for a 1-2 day clinic as a fund raiser and $5 or $10 dollars of the fee goes to the chapter. They often use a hunt club or dog training area as a location. Not sure about N. CA, but the San Gabriel Valley Chapter of QU usually schedules a couple clinics a year. High Desert Hunt Club near Gorman hosts them, as does Rahaauge's in Norco. If you put some feelers out, it won't be hard to locate one. The bigger problem is that they fill up fast. The clinic I attended was put on by SG Valley QU at High Desert HC and the "snake guy" was Bob Kettle out of Nevada. I know he's well regarded, but there are others, you just have to check around.
The training takes about 15 minutes per dog and it's apparently a real art - sort of a horse-whisperer thing. Its done with a shock collar and they need to apply the "correction" at a very precise moment in the dog's recognition that he associates the sensory perception (sight, sound and smell) with the snake.
Bimlie,
That's interesting about a new vaccine - is it a real vaccine (i.e. does it confer immunity) or is it a newer anti-venin (i.e. an antidote to the toxin)? The bit about PETA I heard from my vet - something about it was now more difficult to keep snakes and harvest venom. Maybe they're trying to produce more to fill the gap?
BTW, I went to KFC when I read that article - deelicious!
Scott
These clinics are held throughout the west, at least. There are comparatively few guys that do it and they travel. A lot of QU or Pheasants Forever chapters book these guys for a 1-2 day clinic as a fund raiser and $5 or $10 dollars of the fee goes to the chapter. They often use a hunt club or dog training area as a location. Not sure about N. CA, but the San Gabriel Valley Chapter of QU usually schedules a couple clinics a year. High Desert Hunt Club near Gorman hosts them, as does Rahaauge's in Norco. If you put some feelers out, it won't be hard to locate one. The bigger problem is that they fill up fast. The clinic I attended was put on by SG Valley QU at High Desert HC and the "snake guy" was Bob Kettle out of Nevada. I know he's well regarded, but there are others, you just have to check around.
The training takes about 15 minutes per dog and it's apparently a real art - sort of a horse-whisperer thing. Its done with a shock collar and they need to apply the "correction" at a very precise moment in the dog's recognition that he associates the sensory perception (sight, sound and smell) with the snake.
Bimlie,
That's interesting about a new vaccine - is it a real vaccine (i.e. does it confer immunity) or is it a newer anti-venin (i.e. an antidote to the toxin)? The bit about PETA I heard from my vet - something about it was now more difficult to keep snakes and harvest venom. Maybe they're trying to produce more to fill the gap?
BTW, I went to KFC when I read that article - deelicious!
Scott
According to a January 11th story in the Major Sacramento Metropolitan newspaper more than 100 Department of Fish and Game positions will be eliminated out of an agency of 1,866. That doesn't mention the positions that were open that will remain unfilled within the Department.
This isn't good
This isn't good
hey,,,,,,,, jmabbott888 your quote ( The 1 I had was about a 3 1/2 footer that was "fixed" by Al Robbins here in Bakersfield before he died.),,,,,,,,,,,,,, i thought you could not fix or de venom a rattle snake i was told they need the venom to digest there prey ?,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, and,,,,,,bimlie80 it's legal to keep as pets rattle snakes in california ? not that i have one
It is legal to posses c.v. Oreganus (Western Rattlesnake) in California. You don't even need a Fishing license to capture and posses them like you do with other herps. Rattlesnakes can still eat prey with out venom but it will shorten the life of the snake.
Actually the Western Diamond Back (Crotalus atrox) is different. Northern Pacific, Western, or Great Basin Rattlesnakes are c.v. Oreganus.
There is a Ferret Amnesty Bill SB89 Check it out at www.leginfo.com It was introduced by by a number of Senators from Very Conservative to Moderate, all the way to very liberal.
There is a Ferret Amnesty Bill SB89 Check it out at www.leginfo.com It was introduced by by a number of Senators from Very Conservative to Moderate, all the way to very liberal.
Help me understand.
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I think it is great to imagine non consumptive wildlife users pay their way but that has been proven not to work. (That’s beside the point, I know). The money generated from licenses would go to Animal Control, not Fish and Game. Vaccines and care products would not be taxed for wildlife. Just like domestic animal supplies are not taxed for wildlife.
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First, I don't believe all ferrets would be microchiped. How would you enforce this? Animal Control? Heck, we can't even spay/neuter the cats and dogs we have.
Surviving in the wild without support I can buy into, but, there are large colonies of domestic/feral cats here in Ca. that are provided food and care that are thriving. Folks like to care for the poor kitties and what suffers? The native wildlife. Would not the same thing happen with the ferret? Do we need another predator in the mix?
Educate me.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
I think it is great to imagine non consumptive wildlife users pay their way but that has been proven not to work. (That’s beside the point, I know). The money generated from licenses would go to Animal Control, not Fish and Game. Vaccines and care products would not be taxed for wildlife. Just like domestic animal supplies are not taxed for wildlife.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>
First, I don't believe all ferrets would be microchiped. How would you enforce this? Animal Control? Heck, we can't even spay/neuter the cats and dogs we have.
Surviving in the wild without support I can buy into, but, there are large colonies of domestic/feral cats here in Ca. that are provided food and care that are thriving. Folks like to care for the poor kitties and what suffers? The native wildlife. Would not the same thing happen with the ferret? Do we need another predator in the mix?
Educate me.
Well let's see. First if the wording of the law was such that the money from ferret care products was appropriated for Fish and Game only then it couldn't legaly be used for anything else (I know it probably would any way but that's not my bad so why punish me). Second another carnivore? Are you kidding? You mean prey species. Yes they are carnivores but in California they'd be quick Coyote food, road kill and yes even snake food. Unlike New Zealand (which Fish and Game likes to point to as proof for their claims), California has a pretty large number of top carnivores that would quickly turn a feret into a 1.5 lbs snack. State Biologist Ron Jurek points out that Stoat/Ferret mixes have eaten the NZ national Bird, he however doesn't mention that The US national bird would eat the ferret. Biologist around the world agree that domestic ferrets are Mustela putorius furo and that European polecats are Mustela putorius, and have been domestecaed from 1,500 to 3,000 years ago. California biologist Ron Jurek (note not Anthropologist or historian) believes ferrets haven't been domesticated near that long and only under intense pressure has Fish and Game acknowledged they are domesticated. Fish and Game (the people running it not the actual working stiff) has claimed that there is no rabbies vaccine for ferrets. They were threatend with a lawsuit because the USDA (which acknowledges ferrets as domesitcated) approved a rabbies vaccine years ago. Dispite What Fish and Game claims is the decimation of NZ wildlife they are still legal in Both Australia and NZ. Hmmm....
There is no Biome that California has that is exclusive to California, there are biomes that are shared by California with many ferret legal places, so the question would be why aren't there ferret problems in those biomes. Why did DFG try and hide their own report and survey, http://www.dfg.ca.gov/hcpb/species/nuis_ex...et/survey.shtml until Jeanne Carely of Calif. for Ferret legalization took legal action against the department.
The argument regarding microchipping and other pets, all I can say is that using the logic that all pet owners are irresponsible based on the actions of a few is like saying all gun owners are careless and irresponsible based on some slob hunter or Darwin award canidate. There are really bad drivers, when they are busted enough they lose their licenses but it isn't assumed that all drivers are crappy, pass a simple test, get a license. I don't think I should have to microchip my pet but if that is the difference between being able to have a pet or not I'd microchip. Sure there will be problems with people abondoning ferrets, there are already I know I have evac'd them out of state when people decide they can't have them anymore or a neighbor has a falling out and threatens to turn a ferret owner in.
There is already a large population of ferrets in the state. Have you been into a Petco or Petsmart lately? They have 8 to 20' of merchandising space dedicated to ferret related products, do you think if they weren't selling well theses companies would waste valuable merchandising realestate? It is estimated that Californians use 20% of total ferret care products world wide. There are already people and neworks in place to deal when the day legalization happens (which according to a DFG Lt. is probably going to be soon (he or she added a smiley face to his or her e-mail when this person wrote that to me). Check out www.ferretware.com Hildy works under the state permit to rescue ferrets from Fish and Game, she will be a leading shelter organizer in California. Btw what the heck is Fish and Game doing regulating and enforcing pets and pet shops, what a waste of resources. Fish and Game told a petshop owner he had to have water for his Mali Uromastic lizards. They don't drink water. Those wardens should have been on the Sacramento River busting poachers. Conservative Hunters like (very pro law enforcement) Senator Oller as well as Liberals like Senator Jackie Speirs are among the 15 or so Senators whose name is on SB89, the ferret amnesty bill. When ferret legalization bills go before the full Assembly or Senate they are passed overwhelmingly (which is why DFG knows it's only a matter of time), the bills are killed in comittee by a small number of specific politicians. Now that those senators are being termed out it is only a matter of time. The science doesn't support DFG positions, if I thought ferrets would be the curse domestic felines are I'd be behind the ban. I recently notified DFG about an article they were passing out at the ISE show from 1978-79. The article was on the negatives of owning a wild animal as a pet. The article said that it was legal to keep wild animals in California (which is no longer true). The gentleman that wrote the article is pro ferret legalization. I don't fault DFG for passing out information almost 30 years old but I do wish they'd include that this guy is a ferret legalization supporter on their website, yeah right. It should be noted that the laws are changing so that vets can treat ferrets and house them without being in violation of the law for possesion.
DFG claims that it does not activley search out ferret owners and statistics show that most confiscated ferret are from relationship splits (when an ex turns in a fomer girlfriend/boyfriend, spouse). I was blackmailed by an exfelon that worked in my apartment complex whom discovered my former ferts when we had a water leak. He wanted money for booze or drugs and figured I'd pay up rather than loose my pets.
There is a group here in Sacramento that captures feral cats, fixes them and returns them to their feral status. Seems cruel to me, they should have a law against it like relocating wildlife without a permit. Did you know I can't release a captured a native snake, skunk, raccoon etc into the wild without a permit. Most mammals are euthenised but not cat's. I need to add there are a ton of Coyotes in my neighborhood and an increasing number of missing cat signs.
Thanks for caring enough to consider the issue. I know there are many more pressing issue's but to me this is more a Liberty issue. I am by no means anti Fish and Game, those poor bastards have it tough.
There is no Biome that California has that is exclusive to California, there are biomes that are shared by California with many ferret legal places, so the question would be why aren't there ferret problems in those biomes. Why did DFG try and hide their own report and survey, http://www.dfg.ca.gov/hcpb/species/nuis_ex...et/survey.shtml until Jeanne Carely of Calif. for Ferret legalization took legal action against the department.
The argument regarding microchipping and other pets, all I can say is that using the logic that all pet owners are irresponsible based on the actions of a few is like saying all gun owners are careless and irresponsible based on some slob hunter or Darwin award canidate. There are really bad drivers, when they are busted enough they lose their licenses but it isn't assumed that all drivers are crappy, pass a simple test, get a license. I don't think I should have to microchip my pet but if that is the difference between being able to have a pet or not I'd microchip. Sure there will be problems with people abondoning ferrets, there are already I know I have evac'd them out of state when people decide they can't have them anymore or a neighbor has a falling out and threatens to turn a ferret owner in.
There is already a large population of ferrets in the state. Have you been into a Petco or Petsmart lately? They have 8 to 20' of merchandising space dedicated to ferret related products, do you think if they weren't selling well theses companies would waste valuable merchandising realestate? It is estimated that Californians use 20% of total ferret care products world wide. There are already people and neworks in place to deal when the day legalization happens (which according to a DFG Lt. is probably going to be soon (he or she added a smiley face to his or her e-mail when this person wrote that to me). Check out www.ferretware.com Hildy works under the state permit to rescue ferrets from Fish and Game, she will be a leading shelter organizer in California. Btw what the heck is Fish and Game doing regulating and enforcing pets and pet shops, what a waste of resources. Fish and Game told a petshop owner he had to have water for his Mali Uromastic lizards. They don't drink water. Those wardens should have been on the Sacramento River busting poachers. Conservative Hunters like (very pro law enforcement) Senator Oller as well as Liberals like Senator Jackie Speirs are among the 15 or so Senators whose name is on SB89, the ferret amnesty bill. When ferret legalization bills go before the full Assembly or Senate they are passed overwhelmingly (which is why DFG knows it's only a matter of time), the bills are killed in comittee by a small number of specific politicians. Now that those senators are being termed out it is only a matter of time. The science doesn't support DFG positions, if I thought ferrets would be the curse domestic felines are I'd be behind the ban. I recently notified DFG about an article they were passing out at the ISE show from 1978-79. The article was on the negatives of owning a wild animal as a pet. The article said that it was legal to keep wild animals in California (which is no longer true). The gentleman that wrote the article is pro ferret legalization. I don't fault DFG for passing out information almost 30 years old but I do wish they'd include that this guy is a ferret legalization supporter on their website, yeah right. It should be noted that the laws are changing so that vets can treat ferrets and house them without being in violation of the law for possesion.
DFG claims that it does not activley search out ferret owners and statistics show that most confiscated ferret are from relationship splits (when an ex turns in a fomer girlfriend/boyfriend, spouse). I was blackmailed by an exfelon that worked in my apartment complex whom discovered my former ferts when we had a water leak. He wanted money for booze or drugs and figured I'd pay up rather than loose my pets.
There is a group here in Sacramento that captures feral cats, fixes them and returns them to their feral status. Seems cruel to me, they should have a law against it like relocating wildlife without a permit. Did you know I can't release a captured a native snake, skunk, raccoon etc into the wild without a permit. Most mammals are euthenised but not cat's. I need to add there are a ton of Coyotes in my neighborhood and an increasing number of missing cat signs.
Thanks for caring enough to consider the issue. I know there are many more pressing issue's but to me this is more a Liberty issue. I am by no means anti Fish and Game, those poor bastards have it tough.
Here is a report from the California Research Bureau a state agency.
http://www.library.ca.gov/CRB/97/notes/v4n3.pdf
http://www.library.ca.gov/CRB/97/notes/v4n3.pdf
