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Hitechhunter
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Affirmative. I snuck in an evening hunt after working on the EB and scored on that bad boy. Had to stalk him without camo!
bigworm
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My My My what a can of worms. Not knowing the whole story, I would have to say he took advantage of the situation, and you let him. In hunting with dogs, you have no idea what size you will catch. So ethically as a guide he should treat the situation as such. I think you pay for an experience, not just a hog. Part of the thrill is the chase. You endured that. Another part is watching the dogs work the hog. Tough to see on a small hog, but none the less he shorted you by having broke up the fight, and separating them before you arrived. Had I been guiding you, after having seen it was a small hog, I would have made you grab it. Help get the situation under control. This would have given you another element to hunting with dogs. If this had been the only hog you got on, he could have made it more of an experience.
Having agreed that we would turn a small hog loose, should have set the tempo to continue hunting. If the dogs and tore up the hog too bad, this was not your fault. He should have let you put the hog down, it's your hunt. You then should have continued to hunt. He would then have done everything he could to give you a good hunt. You would be sitting there thinking he did what he could to make it a great hunt. Instead he left you feeling like you got shorted.
Like others stated you needed to talk about it at the time. Pretty tough to bring up after the fact. In the guides defense, this is only one side of the story. I have guided, and you can not please everyone. Missed chances in a guides opinion, are not much of an opportunity in the clients. His choice to use dogs was in an attempt to make your hunt successful.
Having agreed that we would turn a small hog loose, should have set the tempo to continue hunting. If the dogs and tore up the hog too bad, this was not your fault. He should have let you put the hog down, it's your hunt. You then should have continued to hunt. He would then have done everything he could to give you a good hunt. You would be sitting there thinking he did what he could to make it a great hunt. Instead he left you feeling like you got shorted.
Like others stated you needed to talk about it at the time. Pretty tough to bring up after the fact. In the guides defense, this is only one side of the story. I have guided, and you can not please everyone. Missed chances in a guides opinion, are not much of an opportunity in the clients. His choice to use dogs was in an attempt to make your hunt successful.
Hitechhunter
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Several folks have suggested potential communication problems between him and the guide, and other folks have criticized his ability to communicate here with his post.
What we have here, is a failure to communicate.
What we have here, is a failure to communicate.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hitechhunter @ Dec 23 2008, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>
Thats down right funny. I am staying out of this one for fear of Detention cuz I cant spell for beanz, and aint gonna get in trubble.
Thats down right funny. I am staying out of this one for fear of Detention cuz I cant spell for beanz, and aint gonna get in trubble.
Speckmisser
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Enough with the grammar-cops. It was out of line when it started, and all the foolishness hasn't made it any better. Yes, a Moderator should have stepped in, but we have enough long-time members here that you ought to be able to police yourselves better than that.
That's a pretty crappy welcome to a new member. Nice work, fellas.
That's a pretty crappy welcome to a new member. Nice work, fellas.
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Hitman, I apologize for the extremely poor welcome some gave you, we're normally a more friendly bunch. Don't be afraid to ask whatever you'd like and you can type it any way you like.
To the Post Nazis, take a break. Your rudeness is not welcome here.
Yes Hronk, we're dealing with it. Can you at least give us a chance to respond before you dogpile and whine about your past problems? I'm in a motel trying to deal with this on a dial up since the Wifi isn't working. I should be getting ready for a duck hunt but what the heck, some knuckleheads here ruined that thought. How about next time you hold your water and let us mods and admin do what we are here for. After a day or two and no action feel free to PM or email one of us for an answer instead of just pouring gas on the fire. There is also a "Report This Post" button you can use to alert admins and mods about a problem and you can stay anonymous if you want.
Thank you.
Back to the topic. Did the guide do him wrong over the pig he ended up shooting?
To the Post Nazis, take a break. Your rudeness is not welcome here.
Yes Hronk, we're dealing with it. Can you at least give us a chance to respond before you dogpile and whine about your past problems? I'm in a motel trying to deal with this on a dial up since the Wifi isn't working. I should be getting ready for a duck hunt but what the heck, some knuckleheads here ruined that thought. How about next time you hold your water and let us mods and admin do what we are here for. After a day or two and no action feel free to PM or email one of us for an answer instead of just pouring gas on the fire. There is also a "Report This Post" button you can use to alert admins and mods about a problem and you can stay anonymous if you want.
Thank you.
Back to the topic. Did the guide do him wrong over the pig he ended up shooting?
Back to your post Hitman,how did they clear the dogs for you to shoot.I am sorry Hitman you paid to train someones dogs for something they don't have a right to sell.Don't get me wrong I don't think pigs should be a game animal but this hunt as you put it was wrong!Your 500.00 dollars should be refunded,not another hunt.period.They Raped you,don't put up with it.Screw the next time get this time RIGHT first. Upper PS thanks for opening up this thread hope I didnnnnnnnnnnnn't shut it back down Upper
Use_Enough_Gun
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Two points:
1) You've got a basic sense of hunting ethics it seems-because the whole thing stuck you as wrong. The guide obviously doesn't share them.
2) Take the time to talk to your guide/outfitter (as mentioned above) and get it all out on the table. Some of these guys have hunted THOUSANDS of pigs and they just see it as business. TELL him (or her...sorry Deedy!) exactly what you'd like to find/method of take, etc. Set a bottom line. You may go away without a pig--but it's YOUR hunt, not theirs.
Another note...and this goes both ways in terms of "take". Some guides have "trophy boar" fees that are sometimes DOUBLE the "standard" fee. It's a matter of judgement--and you need to know exactly what those standards are before you go. It's the outfitters choice to do so, but again you need to know the rules. I can see it from both sides.
I understand the extra fee IF you are passing on pig after pig because it's not big enough. Much more work for the outfitter.
But...It may be the only pig you see during the hunt--it's there and suddenly the outfitter tells you--"nice TROPHY boar". Cha-ching $$$!
1) You've got a basic sense of hunting ethics it seems-because the whole thing stuck you as wrong. The guide obviously doesn't share them.
2) Take the time to talk to your guide/outfitter (as mentioned above) and get it all out on the table. Some of these guys have hunted THOUSANDS of pigs and they just see it as business. TELL him (or her...sorry Deedy!) exactly what you'd like to find/method of take, etc. Set a bottom line. You may go away without a pig--but it's YOUR hunt, not theirs.
Another note...and this goes both ways in terms of "take". Some guides have "trophy boar" fees that are sometimes DOUBLE the "standard" fee. It's a matter of judgement--and you need to know exactly what those standards are before you go. It's the outfitters choice to do so, but again you need to know the rules. I can see it from both sides.
I understand the extra fee IF you are passing on pig after pig because it's not big enough. Much more work for the outfitter.
But...It may be the only pig you see during the hunt--it's there and suddenly the outfitter tells you--"nice TROPHY boar". Cha-ching $$$!
So who was the guide?
I think everyone has gone overboard to remain fair and not blast the guide as we have not heard his/her story. The communication problem may have been on one side of the parties or both, we don't really know and it really doesn't matter at this point. I believe the original poster has gotten the message of communicating better prior to going in the field with another guide. I think we can all agree that dogs are dogs and if a hog gets tore up prior to the guide or hunter getting to it that the dogs may just do what they did in this instance.
With that being said, I think this thread is basically dead except for, "Who was the guide?".
I think everyone has gone overboard to remain fair and not blast the guide as we have not heard his/her story. The communication problem may have been on one side of the parties or both, we don't really know and it really doesn't matter at this point. I believe the original poster has gotten the message of communicating better prior to going in the field with another guide. I think we can all agree that dogs are dogs and if a hog gets tore up prior to the guide or hunter getting to it that the dogs may just do what they did in this instance.
With that being said, I think this thread is basically dead except for, "Who was the guide?".
wood pusher
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wow! i wouldnt be suprised if hitman doesnt come back. after all he was called a ''poacher'' by upper. that in my book is the worst thing you could call a fellow hunter. again i imagine it came from some1 who doesnt hunt hogs very much and has no clue of the regs. here.
I am not coming to Upper's defense here, but I also thought that the method used to take the pig may have been on the wrong side of legal. Shooting a pig with an authorized firearm (handgun, rifle, ect) is not the problem and neither is using dogs to pursue pigs. Jumping on top of a live pig and pysically restaining it with your hands is the problem.
Section 353 in the hunting handbook does not list "hands" as an authorized method of take. Take is defined as hunt, pursue, catch, capture, or kill, or attempts to hunt, pursue, catch, capture, or kill.
The way I read it, running up and "legging" a pig while the dogs have it bayed up is NOT legal, but running up and shooting a pig with your trusty .44 is.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Section 353 in the hunting handbook does not list "hands" as an authorized method of take. Take is defined as hunt, pursue, catch, capture, or kill, or attempts to hunt, pursue, catch, capture, or kill.
The way I read it, running up and "legging" a pig while the dogs have it bayed up is NOT legal, but running up and shooting a pig with your trusty .44 is.
Just my 2 cents worth.
