whats cailber

[putawayman]

hello im a big time handgun hunter i have question what caliber handgun
would i use to hunt elk? i have a 44mag with a 8 3/8 length barrel would
that work or do i need to go larger like a 480 or 454 thanks

 

[340mag]

I hunt with BOTH a 445 dan wesson and a 44 S&W 10" revolvers,and HAVE HAD EXCELLENT RESULTS FOR MANY YEARS, I was looking into getting a 500 S&W but after carefully thinking it thru and thinking over the results Ive gotten I decided to stay with my current revolvers for MY up coming ELK HUNT

BECAUSE

your ability to place the shot correctly and the bullet construction will have a far greater effect on your results than a slight increase in power or bullet energy,
the archery guys ( my self included here) comonly take ELK with projectiles with under 80 ft lbs of energy!
ITS NOT ENERGY BUT SHOT PLACEMENT AND PENETRATION THAT GETS THE JOB DONE!
you potential problem will be more one of getting into range (under about a 100 yards for most guys)and precisely placing your shot than one of delivered energy.
ID take the 44mag loaded with 265-300grain slugs and take a hint from the archery guys in that a lung/heart shot is the main goal!
I plan to hunt ELK next year with a S&W 44 or my DAN WESSON 445 loaded with a stiff charge of H-110 powder,and after testing several bullets I plan to use a HARD CAST GAS CHECK 300 grain bullet and limit the shot to the range I can keep in a 5" paper plate
IVE USED THAT LOAD ON DEER AND SHOT THRU THEM END TO END!
so the powers there!

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html
BTW GOOD LUCK AND LET US KNOW HOW YOU DO!

btw some stuff to read
http://www.handgunhunt.com/columns/gcs_jun03.html

http://www.handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.pe...ation.tests.asp

notice the penetration numbers are more than acceptable for a 44 with hard cast 300 grain bullets

 

[morebullits]

unless you are planning on shooting one in a can save your handguns for the target range. an elk is a huge animal that can take a serious hit from any of todays magnum rifle cartridges and keep on going. yes, bullit placement is everything, comparing handguns to arrows is like apples to oranges. a friend once decided he was going to kill an elk with his 44. at 40yds he put one in the lungs. as the 4 point bull was headed for the next county Bob got off two more shots. (a bull running full throtle through the timber makes precise bullit placement rather difficult) three days later Bob and I found his bull and he finished it with a 7mag. the bull had been hit twice with the 44, one in the lung(1 lung that is)and one in the gut. not a pretty sight. an arrow that misses ribs will take both lungs at 30yds. i guarantee your 44 wont. please, put your ego in your pocket, if you are going to shoot at elk get the right tool for the job, respect your prey and do your absolute best to achieve a clean and swift kill. (there is a reason why handguns are not allowed in many states)

 

[JOE MACK]

Originally posted by morebullits@Aug 27 2004, 08:48 PM
unless you are planning on shooting one in a can save your handguns for the target range. an elk is a huge animal that can take a serious hit from any of todays magnum rifle cartridges and keep on going. yes, bullit placement is everything, comparing handguns to arrows is like apples to oranges. a friend once decided he was going to kill an elk with his 44. at 40yds he put one in the lungs. as the 4 point bull was headed for the next county Bob got off two more shots. (a bull running full throtle through the timber makes precise bullit placement rather difficult) three days later Bob and I found his bull and he finished it with a 7mag. the bull had been hit twice with the 44, one in the lung(1 lung that is)and one in the gut. not a pretty sight. an arrow that misses ribs will take both lungs at 30yds. i guarantee your 44 wont. please, put your ego in your pocket, if you are going to shoot at elk get the right tool for the job, respect your prey and do your absolute best to achieve a clean and swift kill. (there is a reason why handguns are not allowed in many states)

I've got to vehemently disagree with your assessment of handgun hunting. I've taken three large elk with a .41Magnum handgun. I used a 250grWFNGC cast from a NEI mould. All three were one shot kills. The longest shot was a shade over sixty yards. I have taken several more with a .45 Colt, a few with a .454Casull, and some with a .475 Linebaugh. These are just the kills by revolvers. I've taken several more with single-shot handguns.


In addition, I've taken elk-sized African game with a .41Magnum along with a large old range cow that wanted to hook me in the guts. The .44 magnum will do the job with the right bullet placement, reasonable yardage, and proper bullet for the game.

 

[340mag]

I had not checked this thread in awhile.
THANKS
JOE MACK
IVE shot completely thru large HOGS and SEVERAL deer end to end, any bullet/revolver cartridge combo that can do that can push a bullet deep enought to KILL ELK, now it may not knock them into next week on impact but a single well placed shot will surely be fatal, the mistake I see sometimes is guys just blasting away and expecting results! if yu don,t place a bullet correctly the results will not be very impressive, I PREFER HARD CAST bullets of good weight as they penetrate DEEPLY, MINIMAL expansion is necessary with 41 -45cal. plus bullets weighting over 260 grain from what IVE SEEN!
IVE killed several large cattle for one of my rancher buddys with a 44 mag and a single shots all thats required and they are far larger in body size than ELK!
true range was in inches but the bullets still exited and were 100% fatal as a freezer full of steaks will prove
BULLER CONSTRUCTION,LOAD, and shot placement will determine the results far more than energy alone!
ID be very hesitant to use a 44 mag over about 100 yards and would prefer under 50 as a goal to insure bullet placement but I don,t think ELK are BULLET PROOF as Ive killed more than my share with rifles like a 45/70 and 340 mag

 

[morebullits]

ok, the fact is that I dont know what load Bob was shooting, what i do know is that it wasnt very imprssive.ya the bull was near dead when he finnaly finished him,like i said "not a pretty sight"

i have no doubt that a 44 will do in a cow when you are inches away

.... hogs and deer are not elk, again apples to oranges. i have spent 35 years hunting elk on public land, killed my share,missed a couple and passed on elk that didnt offer the right shot. unfortunately it is not a perfect world.

? for Joe Mack, i know that big bulls on public land dont come along as often as you make it seem. I also know that most western states do not have handgun seasons for elk. how many of these elk went down on the spot, or went less than 100yds. how far did these 1 shot kills travel? where these canned elk, private land elk, or public land elk?

maybe you guys "are" proficient with your hanguns, but i am guessing that putawayman is inexperienced as he is asking for advice. 340...yes far to many people blaze away, bull fever i guess. putawayman, if you are determined to do this, know your limmits and stick to them. resist bull fever. to all three of you, i am curious, why a hangun over a rifle or arrow.

 

[340mag]

" i am curious, why a hangun over a rifle or arrow"

for me its just the CHALLANGE, aand not needing to carry a rifle into and out of those steep canyons,IVE killed a TOTAL of just under twenty ELK with rifles and black powder rifles and ARROWS in the last 36 years, (no great heads but still any legal ELK on public land is good)(and many years we hunted MORE than one state per season) and helped others in my ELK hunting group (most years its 5 or 6 guys in my camp)KILL almost 100 in that time, while the area I normally hunt has no huge bulls getting an ELK of some discription is about a 30% deal for most of the guys and some of us pass on at least one almost every year looking for a big one.
Ive got to the point I enjoy helping the younger guys get thiers as much as getting one myself and getting one with a hand gun will be something new

Ive found these (lee 300 grain bullets below) to be good choices, keep in mind shot placement and deep penetration are the keys to success and your NOT going to get alot of EXPANSION from a correctly cast bullet but you will get a very deadly load

http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/br...g/bullmol2.html

BUT I PREFER THESE from NEI (the smaller nose alows them to penetrate deeper, in the testing IVE done in water soaked phone books))
neither bullet expands a great deal if the exit wounds on deer and hogs are a gauge but they kill well, (Ive yet to find one in game)

http://www.neihandtools.com/catalog/index.html

seat them out as long as the cylinder can handle and CRIMP THEM FIRMLY and load over a stiff load of H110 powder start with about 21 grains IN a 44 mag)( start at about 28 grains with the 445 super mag)and work up VERY carefully!

IT is EXTREMELY important they are seated out to the max, sized to the cylinder throat dia. lubed heavily, and firmly crimped
BTW I use a 6% tin added to the weight alloy and cast them from wheel weights

 

[JOE MACK]

Originally posted by morebullits@Aug 29 2004, 08:57 PM
ok, the fact is that I dont know what load Bob was shooting, what i do know is that it wasnt very imprssive.ya the bull was near dead when he finnaly finished him,like i said "not a pretty sight"

i have no doubt that a 44 will do in a cow when you are inches away

.... hogs and deer are not elk, again apples to oranges. i have spent 35 years hunting elk on public land, killed my share,missed a couple and passed on elk that didnt offer the right shot. unfortunately it is not a perfect world.

? for Joe Mack, i know that big bulls on public land dont come along as often as you make it seem. I also know that most western states do not have handgun seasons for elk. how many of these elk went down on the spot, or went less than 100yds. how far did these 1 shot kills travel? where these canned elk, private land elk, or public land elk?

maybe you guys "are" proficient with your hanguns, but i am guessing that putawayman is inexperienced as he is asking for advice. 340...yes far to many people blaze away, bull fever i guess. putawayman, if you are determined to do this, know your limmits and stick to them. resist bull fever. to all three of you, i am curious, why a hangun over a rifle or arrow.

I've killed elk for more than 35 years. I killed my first one at age 12 with an old '06 Springfield. None of the hunts I go on are "canned." I apply to no less than 5 states for elk yearly. I've taken enough elk to know where the big bulls are hiding. I hunt the more rugged public lands and do so by packing in by horse and mule. Since I was born and raised on a working cattle ranch in the heart of elk country, I helped harvest when we got depredation tags. I also have access to the ranches of friends and neighbors.

Please don't attribute your friend's lack of experience to all the rest of the handgun hunters here. There are many people taking elk-size game and quite a bit larger with handguns. Go to Gary Reeder's website and see what is possible with a handgun. All the elk I've shot have traveled less than 100yards before expiring. I handgun hunt like I used to bowhunt. I was taught to get as close as possible, and then get closer. I like the challenge of hunting with a handgun and treat it as a noisy compound bow. I don't bowhunt anymore due to injury of the right deltoid and shoulder joint so I use the handgun. I put more than 2000 rounds downrange on the average month in practice. I up the count about three months before the season and also increase my exercise regimen.

If putawayman wants to hunt elk with a .44magnum .340 and I have tried to give him a few helpful hints based on our own experience. You experience one elk with a handgun with atypical results. BTW the "handgun hunting season" coincides with the rifle season in all the western states that I'm aware of presently. Good luck and give it a try before you condemn it.

 

[340mag]

http://handloads.com/misc/linebaugh.penetration.tests.asp

you might want to look this over

notice a 44 mag with a CAST bullets has DOUBLE the penetration of several comon deer rifles like a 30/06

things to read

http://sixgunner.com/absolutenm/anmviewer.asp?a=83&z=71

 

[putawayman]

thanks all who posted there comments . ive taken russian boar,texas dull sheep
and 6whitetail buck all with the same 44 mag i just wanted to get some opinions before i venture into an elk hunt thanks again putawayman

 

[scr83jp]

Here's my favorite 265gr gc & 300grgc bullets for my Encore pistol & rifle in 454 casull and 45 long colt and Blackhawks http://www.castperformance.com.I buy my bullets from midwayusa.

 

[Dieselchessy]

putawayman,
I dont hunt with a pistol but I have killed several elk with a muzzleloader. I shoot a 50 cal with 45 cal 310 grn solid lead bullet in a plastic sabot. I dont have a cronograph but I would guess my velocity is around 1600 fps. This should compare to your pistol loads.
Trust me!!!! This will kill elk. Its been doing it for years. I shot an elk at 75 yrds a few years back. I was a little off and the bullet hit the shoulder blade. It went through and penetrated a vertibre stopping in the spinal cord. Luck, maybe but it shows you these things will penetrate. Most all of my rib shots pass through.

Take your 44 load it stout with a good bullet and hunt away. Just keep it within 100 yds and have fun.

Rick