Where NOT to hunt.

[Hogskin]

Darn good posts, Evan. It may not be my bag but if it's legal I don't really care what somebody does. And I'm totally in agreement with you on the guide thing. I've been out with Willoughby before and we've driven the ranch, spotted pigs, got out and walked a little while, and then there's a dead pig on the ground.... all before 8:00 in the morning. To me, that wasn't really hunting. It was a blast, but I didn't hunt. So I don't put that on any higher of a plane than going to Big Horn or one of its equivalents.

Hope you'll be at Tejon for the ham slam, just keep those snakes to yourself.

 

[Bishop]

In referance to "Bighorn Canyon Ranch", there are two kinds of hunting there. When Evan III said he hunted there, he failed to mention that he hunted exotics there. Three of us went there one time to check it out. And yes, after walking around a while it was evident that the pigs they had stocked there at that time, were plain old farm yard pigs. So we passed on those.
The ranch is basically set up for bow hunters and handgunners, but rifles are allowed. The topography is very much like Tejon and Catalina, very steep canyons and draws.
If you want to hunt exotics in California, your going to have to hunt a fenced ranch. The owners told us to shoot every coyote we saw, because they are constantly taking down the exotics. Well, the exotics that survive there are very spooky. And many of them are wild transplants from Catalina and Santa Cruz islands. Anyone who has hunted Catalina in the old days knows that the goats can run straight up and across hills that a man would need a rope and rock climbing gear to go up. With a rifle the hunts would not be much of a challenge, since a good rifleman can reach out 300-400 yards. But the challenge is much more intensified when you carry a bow or handgun.
Anyway, nobody walked up to a ram and shot it. Evan III got a Merino sheep with a iron sighted Redhawk on the run at 50 yards, and his brother got a Corsican Ram with a scoped Super Redhawk at 101 yards.
Like Evan said, we won't be going back, but the chance to hunt exotics for the first time was very enjoyable. And it was much more challenging than the "once of a lifetime hunt" we had when we got drawn for the tule elk hunt in Big Pine (Tenamaha). Go to the alfala fields where the elk are always eating, move into range, or wait for them to feed into range. And shoot one. Great meat, not much of a hunt.

 

[pitdog]

I prefer fair chase. I hunted an area of San Berdu for months, sometimes 4 days a week for about 50 days of hog hunting. Stalking, crawling through scrub oak, walking through mud and water only to get skunked. I loved every minute of it. But I wanted to kill a pig with my new bow so bad (and my wife and family were teasing me a bit) I finally broke down and went to Big Horn. It wasn’t my cup of tea (kinda like riding a moped or hooking up with a fat girl) but I got a pig with my new bow. He was on the move and I whacked him at 30 yards. It actually charged me for about 20 yards and went down.

I hunted over a feeder in Arkansas that was MUCH LESS challenging than Big Horn… I’ve coon hunted with Bluetick Hounds, which was very cool, but not real sporting. I stalked and arrowed a Ram in PaulC’s brothers back yard (don’t laugh, those suckers can run like a Scaulded Airdale!… I love it all.

I’ve always considered myself a “true hunter” and I don’t think this disqualifies me. As soon as my son gets his license, were going back to Big Horn.

 

[F350]

Bishop,
I've heard that the exotics there are a bit more of a challenge and believe me,
I'll be the first to say even more so with bows or pistols but, I was referring to hunting wild pigs and really didn't mean to offend anyone.

Maybe I should've been more clear in the title like:

"Where Not to Hunt Wild Pigs unless you want someone to tell you they're not wild"

Or

"Where not to go if you still want to feel like you hunted real wild Pigs"

I just thought that since we were in the "Hog & Javelina Hunting" forum, folks would know what I meant.

Sorry for the confusion guys

Gee, now I guess the guys who don't like my posts, won't read them.

 

[Bishop]

No Big Deal F350. The one thing we pride ourselves on here at JHO is "friendly debate". And yes this thread is about pig hunting. I just wanted to clear up any misgivings about John's (Evan III) experience at Big Horn.
For the most part we agree with you, it's always more satisfing and rewarding when you get your animal the "hard way". But someplace like Big Horn is a good place to break in a novice bowhunter or handgunner. Most of us know that no matter how well you shoot on paper, it's a whole differant subject when your in the field and have a animal in your sights. Big Horn knows that their set up isn't for everyone, that's why they only charge you $25.00 if you don't shoot a animal.

 

[UPER]

Man! just checked in and boy did this topic ever take a turn! I do not see anyone trying to say they are the better hunter here. I hunt public as I mentioned before, just don't have the cash for Tejon or choppers but would love to try someday just to see what its like. I think the thing that is missing here fellas is that no matter where your at public or private, just being out in the great outdoors and taking the gun for a walk is enough for me, even if I do not see or shoot a damn thing!!!!

 

[EVAN III]

Superduty,

I agree with you about campfire stories, the story in itself is what it's all about. I love to hear a great story. And yes I have told a few myself. My arguement wasn't about the hunting stories, it was about the "my method of take is better then yours". or the "it's not really hunting unless you do it my way, thats real hunting" ideas. Thats what bothers me. I have been impressed by many a hunter and the stories they've told. As Hicntry said, he hunts with dogs. It's not my cup of tea, but I'd love to hear some stories. If he were to say that because I don't hunt with dogs I'm not a real hunter, that would be were what I'm talking about come into play.

F-350,

Most of the guys hear that know me would say I love a good debate, if for nothing else but a good debate. It's been fun. Your right this is a hog hunting forum, but it seems to me the topic has gone off on more general terms. I don't think the topic title was were this topic went astray, but for some reason these kind of topics always turn from a search for info to a debate. I'm glad you have strong feeling about your sport and the way you do it, thats what makes you an ethical sportsman. I have strong feelings about it also, in fact it seems, me and you (believe it or not) have alot of the same methods and beliefs. I've probly hunted with 100 or so, of the guys on this board and not one of them have been unethical, unsportsmen like, or in any way shady. All have had different methods or ideas about how to hunt, but none were wrong. I'm sure with this many people there are some that are, but I've not met them. My whole point here was just because it's different, doesn't mean it's not hunting or wrong. On another note, I don't know or remember if you have hunted Tajon or not, but to anwser your original question, if you are looking for a hunt Tajon sounds like it would be right up your alley.

sdbowyer,

It's only a matter of time till they start picking at more and more of the hunting styles. Sure you may believe put and take ranchs give us a bad name, well as Hogskin, said his guided hunt wasn't much more of a challenge then the likes of big horn. I hunted with hogskin and he is a hard working ethical hunter but the anti's will surely attack the guide, and since he hunted with the guide he will be in question also. Next they'll be saying guides are unethical. Then hunting private ranches like tajon is unethical since the animals can only go so far. It will never end, If you hunt within the limits of the law, you have my support. They will break us down just like they have with the saltwater fishermen and the freshwater fisherman. They are learning they have to stick together or all fishing will be in troble. Have you ever seen the bumper sticker "fisherman unite". That because alot of saltwater fishing areas are being shut down or an attempt is being made to shut it down. all fishemen need to stick together to save the sport. In my eyes the same applies hear.


Pitdog,

It's been awahile, how the heck are ya? I heard san tim is closed down now, Have you heard anything? Good luck with your son and bighorn, hope you guys have fun. And it looks like your in on the next pig-o-rama, good luck to you, I won't be making this one.

Hogskin,

Don't think I'll be making the Ham slam this year. Isn't it all filled up already? If not maybe I'll look into it, time permitting. Working on getting a new job right now, mines getting boring. Don't know when I'll be getting some time off in the near future. Anyhow take it easy, looking forward to hunting with you again. good luck!

 

[hicntry]

I have found this thread to really be disallusioning. I was going to start a little business where all you had to do was bring the gun you wanted to be photographed with(no ammo), pay your fee and that entitles you to go into the walkin and pick the carcass of your choice for your pictures. I was even going to have a wide selection of different hunting senarios written out so no one would even have to make up their own story. No muss, no fuss. Of course you wouldn't get to keep the carcass because I could have kept using it as long as I kept it frozen. After reading this thread I am not sure it would be a viable business venture.........the only takers would probably be the fair chase guys after they get tired of being skunked.LOL

PS Fair chase excludes carring a scoped rifle that you can kill a hog at 100 or more yards on the run doesn't it ?

 

[Bishop]

Originally posted by hicntry@Apr 15 2004, 03:30 PM
I have found this thread to really be disallusioning. I was going to start a little business where all you had to do was bring the gun you wanted to be photographed with(no ammo), pay your fee and that entitles you to go into the walkin and pick the carcass of your choice for your pictures. I was even going to have a wide selection of different hunting senarios written out so no one would even have to make up their own story. No muss, no fuss. Of course you wouldn't get to keep the carcass because I could have kept using it as long as I kept it frozen. After reading this thread I am not sure it would be a viable business venture.........the only takers would probably be the fair chase guys after they get tired of being skunked.LOL

PS Fair chase excludes carring a scoped rifle that you can kill a hog at 100 or more yards on the run doesn't it ?

Sounds Good. I'd love to have my picture taken with a California Mountain Lion

 

[sdbowyer]

If I agreed that it was a hunting style then I would support it. If I agreed that the pigs were "on the run" and not tripping over them then I would call it fair chase. I'm not being a purist, I just believe that there are obvious limits to what I'll support or not support, legal or not. I'll support 90% of the forms of hunting, but not 100%. It doesn't help hunting if we don't have reasonable standards. Antis or no antis. Just my opinion guys. I'll compromise and call it a warmup for hunting or a good way to learn how to dress and skin, but I won't call it hunting.

 

[hicntry]

Ya know Bishop, I think I'll have to give that one a pass.LOL I have been called a "smart" a$$

but never a "dumb" a$$.

Lion....what lion....you know what I mean.

 

[tony270]

I say to each his own, as long as it’s within the law, go for it. I’m sure some people just want to see what damage their weapon will do and a put and take operation is just fine for that. And they get the added benefit of food on the table and in the freezer. An animal getting processed at a put and take operation is no different than one being processed at a slaughterhouse, I know I worked at one when I was a young lad.

In my opinion I think we should stick together too, strength is in numbers. Dividing ones enemy is a well-established tactic to occur them. So the cliché of “together we stand and divided we fall” certainly applies to this situation.

Everyone knows that anti’s cruse hunting sites. Anti’s can even join jho’s forum and post topics that the general public might take offence to. In the prospecting world if someone mentions mercury being in a creek the reply they get is “what are you talking about, there is no mercury in that creek and don’t mention that again. In other words common knowledge should tell you that some topics are better discussed in a chat room and not on an open forum. Even over on trapperman they check anyone that post ammunition for the anti’s to use. You better believe they are taking notes and the information we give may end up on some legal documents to stop something relating to our sport.

 

[HOGHUNTER714]

Interesting topic........When I was 17, I was taken to Big Horn to take my first pig. I must admit it was not much of a challenge, but I did get my first animal at the ranch. Would I go back? No, its just not my style. I do think it was a good experience for a 17 year old kid learning the sport. Someone who is disabled, I think places like bighorn are great. As far as the exotics on the ranch, that would be challenging with a bow or pistol. I personally would rather go home empty handed and know I hunted my tail off, then hunt at a "put & take" ranch. We all have different styles and we all have different reasons why we hunt. With that in mind, I wont bash anybodys style of hunting or ranches where they hunt.

 

[chap_dog48]

Ok, I have to chime in on this like all of the others. I have done 90% of all of my hunting on Public Land even out of state trips that seemed to put a crunch on the wallet. I was always happy to work hard to get my game. My Dad and I always seemed to work the hardest on the trips and we always took animals when no one else did. I think, like others have mentioned, that when you work hard to take an animal it is always 10x's more enjoyable knowing YOU did it. I do want to clear the air and give my opinion on a few topics so here they are. My definiion of hunting is as follows:
AND all the while enjoying every things he/she is doing while hunting. [/b]</span></span>

With that said about hunting the other subject everyone is discussing dealing with the ranches where you are taken to easy prey I can sum it up with a a few words of discription: This is called KILLING, not hunting. You are just killing the animal nothing more nothing less. Is it something bad NO, if someone wants to say they Killed a Pig or a Bufflo or anything else and this is something they want to do it is OK but calling it hunting is a little stretch.

With that said I think ranch hunts can offer a challenge. With the few times I have been on ranches to hunt the animals I have taken were not easy. We hiked for 3 days up and down hills, canyons and everything else. I was wishing at times during the hunt it would have been just a little bit easier. In the end I enjoyed the time on the ranches and the new people and land I saw.

All this said it is just my

 

[Shot]

These tread was not on the method of take but rather places NOT to hunt. So its total off topic. And I will voice my opinion about places that give BS services so other people can know about it.

Ok..I don't care what method people use to hunt, but please don't call killing a domestic animal hunting. I have been to Big Horn Ranch, before I did my research, and I regret going. I walked up to two sleeping pigs and grabbed both of them by the tail. Now, that is not hunting. This pigs are domestic. What is really getting old is the wanna be hunter coming back from canned hunts like these and telling some BS story on how they spot and stalked the animals, and what an amazing hunt it was, please give me a break its a freakin canned hunt.

For my 2 cents here is what hunting means to me, pursuing game in its ENVIROMENT, not pursuing game in your enviroment (i.e. canned hunts, non-free roaming animals). Once you beat the animal in its enivorment with what every method then you call that a hunt.

And my take on some ranches, they do the hunting for you and all you do is the shooting/killing (most but not all). Enough said.

 

[EVAN III]

OK so what I take from this is if you hunt over bait and a bear or hog comes walking into your site to the pile of donuts you planted it's not hunting since it's just so easy, if you hunt from a tree stand and you sit there for two hours before a buck walks under and then you shoot it, it's not hunting because it's to easy, If you go out hunting and the first draw you walk over there are a bunch of pigs laying there sleeping 20 yards from you and you shoot one of them it's not hunting since it was to easy. I know it's just dumb luck if any of this would happen but it would all be easy. someone here said you feel 10X's better after you bust your butt all season to get your animal, that is true it feels great, but if you score on the first day does it make it anything less? I know big horn is not to much of a challenge and the pigs are pretty tame, but anyone ever stop to think about the kids or disabled people who love to hunt but are limited to these types of ranches, when they read threads like this they probly feel a little less proud of there hunting trip, since it's not hunting and they just went and shot a farm pig. Seems to me that hunting is what you make of it. Whether it's a beginning hunter, or a seasoned hunter, trying his hand at bow hunting, or someone who is disabled doing what they can, or maybe it's just a quick trip and to put some meat in the freezer, whatever the reason is seems better to me to step back and say it's not for me then to knock it and tell people thier not real hunters. Happy hunting to all, it's been fun.

 

[hicntry]

I am really shocked at how many of the posters(now real hunters) had some of their first hunts at the Big Horn Ranch. Maybe it is the evolutionary beginning of a hunter. Maybe everyone has the right to try it if they want to. Maybe some like to do it the way it's done on BHR. So what. If it isn't your style don't do it. Maybe some people just don't want to bust their hump day after day for nothing but the "experience". Why should it bother anyone else? At least he is eating pork.

 

[Pa Ridge Runner]

I have hunted thruout NA an harvested some pretty impressive game animals,( elk, MD, Wt, 'lope, caribou, moose brwn & blk bears)if I do say so myself. All free range animals.
I've also HUNTED bison on a 60,000 acre low fence ranch and HUNTED 3 days till I finally made a long shot with my 45-70 on a bull. The hunt was no less rewarding than a 349" P&Y bull elk I arrowed on the first morning of a 8 day hunt on BLM land. I HUNTED a boar on a 200 acre high fence operation in Pa with my bow. He was as wild as a feral barn kitten. It took me all day to make a 40 yds shot on him inside that enclosure...I surely could not creep up on him and pull his tail while he slept like one poster did. And had I not made that 40 yd shot I would have driven home that night without a hog. But to be honest I could have killed him in 10 minutes of walking with a rifle.
MHO is: The hunt is what you make out of it..my father when he was alive would still come to deer camp in Pa with us every year when he was in his 70's,'cuase of health he never left the kitchen but kept his rifle next to the door just in case a buck came through the back orchard. To him that was HUNTING! and I am damm glad he did it as long as he could. I'd give anything to have him along in camp now.
I suggest to some posters here do not judge too harshly! What is enjoyment to one may be toil to another!!!!!

 

[F350]

WOW ! ! !

Looky what I started.

It's NOT I say, NOT about method or where some people like to hunt. It's about where you WOULD NOT Hunt and why. But regardless of all that, I personally don't feel like canned hunts are hunting. Killing? Harvesting? Warming-up? Ballistic Studies? Learning to field dress? YES....But not hunting. I will agree that it's all very educational and I have called all the "Put & Take" ranches out of interest and will say that not one of them has been misleading or dishonest in any way. They call it like it is and I respect them for that. But again, I wouldn't walk up on a caged animal and shoot it. Put & Take is just not for me or most of my friends.

If you Hunt with Knives, spears, Dogs, Bows, Pistols, or Rifles, Yes you are still very much a hunter and Yes Evan, still my equal and someone I can learn from.
But if you really want to be a good teacher...Don't hand me the answers to the final exam.

And at this point I think most of us agree that there really isn't "Fair Chase" when you kill an animal that can't get away.

I think there should be a rule that you have to preface all stories with where the hunt was before you start. And if it starts with; I was up at Big Horn....I'll just shut up and leave.

Nuff Said

 

[sdbowyer]

A pic I found elsewhere. For those that have been- does this look like Bighorn?