Big problems at Lake Sonoma.

[tradbowhunter]

Hi Joel,

I live less than 20 minutes from Liberty Glenn and bowhunt at the lake as much as anybody. I grealty value the opportunity the the Army corps has provided with these hunts and don't want to see this taken away.

I have a hard time believing that local ranchers are "planting evidence" such as arrows and hog hides. This is low end consipiracy theory. Buck pasture and the surrounding private land is well-torn by a large group of pigs. This is evident accross the lake glassing from Liberty Glenn camp ground. It is highly likley that bowhunters are tresspassing on private land to poach hogs. We can all agree that this is a persistent problem that needs to be addressed.

So what can we do? Let's not let a few bad seeds take away our hunting area. Lets get organized. I'm sure I'm not the only one willing to volunteer on the local ranches fix cut fences, posting no tresspassing signs, and help ease tensions among the landowners, the Army Corps, and bowhunters.

Maybe the Army Corps would be willing to put a group of volunteers in contact with the local land owners?

 

[GetDown]

As maney of you remember, earlier this season I talked about posting so much info. on this hunt,that soon someone would wreck it for all of us.I took crap from everyone on here and no one stood up for me.I am not here to say I am right or wrong,but to give my two cents.Two weeks ago,I was hunting the dry creek arm and at day break two dogs come running up to me.Soon afterwards two hunters with guns come right up on me.I asked them if they new they were on lake sonoma land and they told me yes.They also told me they been hunting this land all of there lives,and this archery hunt is not going to stop them.I said fine,grabed my bow and left.You can believe what ever you guys want,but in the end the land owners will win this battel. All it will take is one land owner saying one of his cows was shot with and arrow,or cattel got out form a cut fence,then its over.I love this hunt, as you guys do,and I dont want to loose it eithier.So love me,or hate me,but this is my two cents.1-Dont tell people you dont know.2-Quit talking about it on the internet.3-Follow all rules,and make sure you tell the people who are not,what they are doing wrong.4-Go out of your way to be nice to every person you see.5-Pick up trash,even if its not yours.6-Carry A camera and take A picture of the person you see breaking the rules.and his car licences plate if you can,then give it to joel.Hope to see you all up there for maney years to come,good luck

 

[BDB]

Did you send pics of these gun hunters and thier dogs to ranger Joel?

 

[PIGIG]

LD

 

[Lurediver]

Again who's enforcing the law?

So I am supposed to run around and take pictures of guys trespassing (who's to say they have permission to hunt the private property), mend fences that have fallin down from years of neglect(remind you these are million dollar estates), outfitters running around with guns and dogs(yeah I'll pass on confronting and telling them where they should be hunting). It's my word against there's, unless an officer of the law catches them in the wrong doing.

I don't get to hunt Lake Sonoma as much as I wish I could so I am there to HUNT when I do, I can't be worrying about guys breaking rules(someone will always be tresspassing-fact of life).

Like I've said before I've heard more gun shots this year than all previous years combined, all coming from the private property and sometimes way after shooting light. Should I call DFG?

Who stopping the trail hikers when they cross a fence? Are they going to close the lake when a hiker get's busted for trespassing(NO)?

Idiots will be idiots, no matter where in life!

When's the last time DFG was up there?

 

[Fishspanker]

awwwww-damn it!!!!

 

[bayedsolid]

Damn archery hunters....always screwing things up for everyone else.

 

[500+grns]

Joel,
Have the property owners contacted the DFG,Sonoma Co. Sheriff?
If in fact,the accusations are true,they need to be pointed in this direction by the ACOE.,as do the accusations by the hunters.
I recall in a post last month,I read a reponse from you that it was the first time you heard of such an incident that hunters from Cooley Ranch and other surounding properties are infiltrating Lake Sonoma property.
For the last three years I've left comments on my slip on the way out about such activities:fresh quad tracks,dog tracks,spent rifle and shot gun rounds,game feeders ect.,and their location.
The hunters that are trespassing on the properties are poachers,and are using the lake as access and the bowhunt as a cover.They are criminals and opportunists.
The local authorities need to be notified and pursue their job to protect peoples property and the 99.9% innocent tax paying,law abiding,hunting lic.and wild pig tag purchasing hunters.
The convincing argument to your manager would be1)How productive the hunts have been in saving the land surrounding Lake Sonoma from the destructive nature of wild pigs.(2)The revenue increase during the fall and winter seasons from launch fees,and camping.(3)The expressed gratitude by the hunters to the ACOE for providing us with the privilege to access and be involved in the deperdation of the wild pigs.(4)The Recreation and Sport that has drawn hunters from all over the state of CA.(and out of state)to visit Lake Sonoma to test their bowhunting skills on such elusive animals.
I can't thank you or the ACOE enough for the experiences I've had the past three hunting seasons at Lake Sonoma.I've done my share of eradicating wild pigs,fishing,hiking,but the greatest reward for me has been introducing bowhunting to others and seeing them take their first boar,take their first shot,or simply the look on their face when we're 20 yards away from wild pigs with the wind in our faces.
I find no justification what so ever to take this privilege from myself and others because of the actions of criminal poachers that will exist before,during,and after the pig hunt ends.It is simply not the answer to the problem.
We can only do our best to inform authorities of criminal activity and it's up to them to enforce the law and protect us all.Being the sorce of such information can be dangerous.Criminals become desperate when the threat of being caught approaches so do take this into consideration when taking pictures or letting your presence be known.
I can assure you that we will do our best to protect this privilege and sorce of public recreation to best of our ability.

 

[PIGIG]

VERRY WELL SAID 500+

 

[slickhntr]

Bravo 500+ well said

 

[7magHunter]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (500+grns @ Jan 29 2007, 08:52 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

It's already a rich mans sport.
The magority of California's prime pig hunting is private property that outfitters have locked up and staked claim w/lease.We have to pay alot of money these days to hunt for pigs and it' a damn shame.You have to pay whether you take one or not.The outfitters get rich and the poor man pays.We can only hunt when we can afford it.
The price of a California pig hunt.New bow.New rifile.It's about the same price.[/b]

Sad but truth!
You're 100% right, Ca hunting is no longer a sport, only business, with a huge profit.
The State of Ca should do something about it, besides raising the pig tag fees, they know well that many hunters buy a yearly license and could never use it cuz there's no where you can hunt, public land is a joke
you get a ratio of 100 hunters per 1 pig, the only areas public that we can still hunting are the military bases which are federal land not state, so what's the Ca DFG is doing for me or every hunter in Ca besides taking your money in license and tags?

 

[Kentuck]

Sad state of affairs here. You've got land owners hunting public property with dogs and firearms and public land hunters crossing fences hunting private. One common theme here is enforcment. Doesn't seem anyone is patroling any of the above mentioned groups. The public land hunter, myself included, needs to, and should, police our bretheren on obeying the rules. But, when it comes to the private land hunters venturing onto public land what recourse do we have? We can call CALTIP, the ACOE or the sheriff but most of the areas I've hunted at LS I don't get a cell signal so that's out of the question. It's a tough situation.
I would like to see either better maps of the actual property lines and better boundary markings in some areas. I'd give a weekend up to help in a work party to do this. It's probably true that some are crossing fences regardless of the posting signs and unfortunately there area few out there that disregard many laws we have. Some are just willing to take the chance. Too bad though, because they are about to ruin it all and for those of that are legit, it would be a tremendous loss.
I for one think this is a great opportunity and appreciate the work and effort of Ranger Joel to provide this to us.

 

[tradbowhunter]

Take Action:

Here is something we can do to ensure that hog hunting at Lake Sonoma continues. Right now the only people speaking up at the angry land woners who would like to see the hunts come to an end. Lets not let the squeaky wheel get the grease.

Write the US Army Corps and let then know that you appericate the opportunity to hunt at Lake Sonoma. Here is contact info the people in charge.

Joel Miller, Park Ranger
Perry Crowley, Park manager
Mike Dilabough, Cheif of Operations
3333 Skaggs Springs Road
Geyserville, Ca 95441
(707) 433-9483

Here is the content of the letters I wrote. Please use it it you like.

I am writing this letter in appreciation and support for the US Army Corps archery only hog hunt program at Lake Sonoma.

In Sonoma County there are very few opportunities to hunt on public lands. Most of Sonoma County is privately owned and there are very few places that allow hunting on public lands. Hunting is quickly becoming a rich man’s sport conducted on private ranches, behind locked gates, and costing hundreds of dollars (per hunt). Lake Sonoma provides a unique opportunity for the public to hunt on public lands.


The archery hunt program at Lake Sonoma provides a valuable service to the public. Every year several hundred ethical bowhunters have taken advantage of this unique opportunity. Lake Sonoma is a wonderful place to spend the day hiking, hunting, and enjoying the outdoors. Thank you for offering this valuable and unique opportunity to hunt on our public lands.

 

[500+grns]

An e-mail address would be better,documentation is very important.

I've gone as far as contacting the DFG in Yountville.I received a call from the local warden being that the activities of both poachers trespassing private property and land owners or ones that lease such properties poaching lake property are 100% the responsibility of the CADFG.My motive is to assist them in any means possible.
I've been informed that DFG has not received any complaints from such persons and they have contacted Ranger Joel about the situation.He also informed me that they do patrol the lake.(?)
I had some interesting conversation with the DFG that some of us won't be too surprised to hear...
The property owners or should I say neighbors have been trying to put an end to the hunts at Lake Sonoma for a long time.For years there has been illegal activity around the lake besides poaching and I assume they don't want hunters stumbling accross it.The information I gave him was to no surprise to him about the neighbors poaching lake property,and that this goes on year round.He thanked me for calling and instructed me to take boat cf #s and lic.plate #s and report poachers to CALTIP,not the ACOE.
The warden doesn't believe a closure to the bowhunt will happen.

 

[Lurediver]

Good job Tradbowhunter and 500+grns.

Doesn't US Army Corps have final say about closing bowhunting on the lake and not DFG?

 

[bodega]

Tradbowhunter:

That's an excellent idea. I'm writing a letter and I hope everybody else who appreciates hunting LS does also.

Let's flood Joel's mailbox with positive messages. He deserves it.

And if somebody has the time to organize a volunteer work party to improve signage and repair fences, I'm in. PM me.

Bodega

 

[MikenSoCo]

I saw a picture of the skinned out hog/head in our local archery shop here in Sonoma Co. today, along with an announcement on reporting violations. Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have to sign in at Liberty Glen and provide your vehicle lic. #? It should be on record who was staying there at the time. Any input Joel?

 

[Rangerjoel]

A group of volunteers who would be willing to patrol the land could be worked out. I will have to check with the park manager to see if that would be OK.
If it were OK’ed, it would have to be passive in nature (no vigilante type stuff) strictly reconnaissance and information gathering. Most people do not realize that under our citation authority, a ranger has the discretion to issue a citation based on information provided from a reliable source. So, a photo of a hunter entering a boat with a legible CF number coming from an area that is closed to hunting is more than enough to issue a citation.
The catch comes on court day. The witness must be willing to appear in court (San Francisco) if the citation is challenged. Good photos showing a clear chain of events like a good shot of hunter with bow crossing a fence line and a second shot showing same hunter entering boat with cf# or hunter entering vehicle w/ license plate would work on its own.
Finally, if hunters know that other hunters are in the woods doing this, it should solve the problems. Yes, it’s ratting, but these are the guys that are screwing it up so don’t feel bad about it!!!
Something like this probably would require at least a pair of hunters/ observers for each side of the lake on a regular basis. Weekends for sure but also weekdays at random. Most of the good hunting is during the week anyway.
Will keep you posted.

 

[oneshothunter]

thanks joel .. my buddys and I have really liked coming up and walking around with are bows .. lol we did stop a pair of guys and told them the area that they where heading to was off limits and hey didnt seem to understand we showed them on the map .. and after that it was clear and they left the area its sad that some will mess it up for the rest .. I hope this gets worked out before it get closed to all

 

[chrisout]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rangerjoel @ Jan 27 2007, 02:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I got back from my winter vacation to discover several angry messages on my answering machine form neighbors who have been having problems with hunters coming up the hill from the lake to shoot pigs. There have been some blatant violations in the orchard area above Homestead camp as well as the area above Cherry Creek as well as the area up the hill from buck pasture. I’ve spoken with the land owners and have seen the areas where hunters have been cutting fences and freely traveling onto private land right past “NO HUNTING” signs.
One neighbor has been in to complain in person to my park manager and the management is giving serious consideration to ending the hunts and I can’t raise a convincing argument to prevent this. As you know, our staffing here is minimal and we can’t baby-sit every hunter who goes into the field. I’m relying on you guys to be self policing out there. But when irate neighbors show up at the office with arrows that they have retrieved from there property as well as photos pig skins and heads left on their roads, (we have found the same thing in Liberty Glen Campground) what am I supposed to tell my manager?

Also please remember that I am governed by the Hatch Act (Sec. 734.406 Participation in political activities while on duty, in uniform, in any room or building occupied in the discharge of official duties, or using a Federal vehicle; prohibition.)
and it would be illegal for me to encourage any action of a political nature, so don’t ask me for assistance of any kind.[/b]

That sucks if they are truly tresspassing BUT I would like to add in hunters defense, I know noone that does it. AND last year in dear season there are many land owers that will buy new no hunting and tresspass signs that are on public land becuase there land is near it. We reported the problem but the local officials do nothing about it.