Black Russian Boars in D13???

[Speckmisser]

Just a note for anyone who still cares... the "Russian" monicker is just a colloquial term for the Eurasian boar.

As far as "pure russian" vs. ferals, the biggest, and only telling, difference is the additional two chromosomes in the euro's DNA... 38 vs 36 (unless I got that backwards again, as I'm apt to do). There are some basic physical differences, but they can be hard to pick out in the field, especially on the hoof. Even the experts have a tough time with it.

Unless you're inside a fence, or very near a broken fence, odds are slim to nil that you'll take a pure eurasian boar anywhere in this state.

 

[Surfswest]

Why hold out for a "Russian" boar (if they exist) here in Cali. There is no limit, as long as you have a tag for each one. Stock up on tags, blast away, and pile up the carcases later to compare the coloring patterns on them!!!!

 

[Bigisle87]

Random question on the topic, but has anyone seen black russians in Hawaii? The scariest black razor back I've seen was on Kauai. I was on an ATV and it scared the hell out of me.

Everything in California on public land has been regular feral pigs.

this is my first post in almost a year, but i can definitely answer your question.

there are NO black russian pigs in hawaii. yes, most of *=(90%) them are pure black, but we have no russian blood here. the first pigs in the islands were brought by traveling polynesians on canoe hundreds of years ago, and later became feral.
lately here on the big island *past 4 or 5 years* i've been seeing much more color phased pigs than before.. spotted, red, red/black/white spotted etc..our island's pig population is definintely going through both a populasion explosion, as well as genetically changing.
i took a sow last week with my bow that was running in a group of pigs, and in that group, there were some babies of all colors. interesting for sure.

 

[GregVan]

When I was in grad school, I was thinking about doing my thesis on pig behavior (ended up doing bears, instead). So I started doing a lot of research.

1) Russian Boars (?)= Originally came from Bavaria/Black Forest. They were probably mixed bloods and not pure. Called them "Russian" as a marketing ploy (a game ranch in the Smoky Mtns). The manager there later managed Hearst Ranch and brought some of those into Carmel. Closer to Monterey, the more "wild" the appearance. These later mixed with intentional and accidental releases.

2) 36 vs 38 chromosomes= Wild pigs/boars/feral pigs/domestic pigs all have the same number of chromosomes (36). Some individuals (and likely some local populations) appear to have 38. This results from what is called a Robertsonian Translocation. In short, a very long chromosome crosses over itself and breaks off during replication (during the the process of cell division). The broken ends stick together and look like another chromosome. FYI: If this happens in humans, it is usually on chromosome #21 (Trisomy 21) and produces Down's Syndrome (one of the causes).

3) Also, FYI: pigs and bears are not of the same family (another often heard myth!) This comes from the shape of the molars. They are bucodont (means they have 4 cusps). Only 3 mammals do: pigs, bears, & humans. It's an adaptation to a widespread and varied diet.

 

[Speckmisser]

Good stuff, Greg. While I didn't study under academic conditions, what I've got suggests that domestics almost invariably show 38 chromosomes, while Eurasians from the Baltic (Russians) almost invariably show 36 (I got it backward the first time, as usual).

For other parts of the world, the wild boar are all over the charts, including plenty with 37. (There's your Robertsonian changes at work.) But the key point you make is correct, I suppose... you can't rely entirely on diploid chromosome numbers for absolute identification.

For the story on the eurasians in NC and, later, in CA, check this letter from George Gordon Moore (a neighbor of Hearst, but as far as I can tell not an employee).

John Mayer (not the musician) is a good guy to look up for the latest and greatest on wild/feral hog morphology and research.

 

[GregVan]

Moore is who I was referring to. I can only plead old age (almost 60 now).

Regarding the genetics, I thought it was the other way around but again I plead age. Also, haven't thought about hogs since I left SoCal for WA (via NorCal).

Another good source is Reg Barrett of UC. Did his dissertation on pigs at Dye Creek. Real nice guy. I've got a couple of texts at home but I'll need to look them up and the basement is in the middle of a remodeling.

Mea culpa!

 

[Speckmisser]

Greg, I honestly had to look it up again... I've been toting that chromosome data around in my head for years, and I always mix the numbers up.

As to Moore, his place at Hooper's Bald in NC was neighbors with some of my relations, so I took a keen interest in his story. Some great stuff in those old letters. I can tell you the locals were generally NOT happy about his menagerie in NC, and Hearst wasn't real thrilled when Moore's hogs reached San Simeon.

Barrett's work is actually referenced in Mayer's newest book on wild pigs.

 

[DirtyDave]

Bohunter3, I was joking about the pigs. Although I have seen some pig sign in d13, mostly on private land, some on public, it was very few and far between.

Damn, Dain V. You got me excited when you mentioned Johnson Valley! I go riding out there all the time, didnt think it would be very good for holding pigs though. :smiley_doh:

 

[socalgobblerhunter]

Having hunted hogs in Japan, I have come to the conclusion that there are no "Russian boars" but they are really eurasian hogs. My father has hunted Russia and Germany for years and they really look all the same. The one difference I have seen between a hog out of northern europe and that from Japan was the thickness of the coat during winter. Maybe thats where the word "Russian boar" came from. The hogs from northern europe do have a real shaggy, darker look to them.
Thats just my two cents.

 

[dglover]

A strait answer would be hunt as close to the coast as possible to get the purest russian you can. In all actuallity Id forget the bow, get a rifle and hire a guide, Public land hogs are tough. Id say 1 in 5 chance at best of even seeing one during the better winter months. With a bow id say 1 in 150 chance of making a kill. Lots of other guys have may have a better finger on the public land pulse

Couldn't agree more. Hogs on public land are very nomadic and subject to change.

I would drop the bow and use a rifle if possible. When you do find them it would be a waste if you couldn't close the deal.

 

[GregVan]

Re-reading this post reminded me of a story my film professor used to tell me in college (a required Humanities course). WC Fields and Douglas Fairbanks JR were drinking buddies with Hearst. Hearst had some saddle-broke zebras and a private zoo. WC and Doug would get drunk, let loose the semi-tamed zoo, and saddle up the zebras with some lariats.

I know I've seen some really wild looking birds (I swear it was a secretary bird) and sheep/goats on the back side of Hunter-Liggett.

 

[TonyS]

One story I heard was that some guy in the 20's had 'russian blue' pigs he imported then let loose on a ranch up by Carmel Valley.

From my own experience, extensively hiking the area between Carmel Valley and Big Sur, there were black tall hogs with a ridge of bristley black hair on the ridge of their backs 20+ years ago. I stopped and talked with a forest ranger who was unloading a pack horse that had been caught by one in a creek bed and was gutted. He put the horse down after the pig did its thing. He warned me that at that time, there were hogs roaming the woods and not to let one corner me.

I heard several later by myself in the area and climbed a rock after seeing a big boar. I was unarmed at the time.

That being said, its a long walk guys. Definitely not an overnighter and your truck will run out of road more than 7 miles from where I had my adventure.

 

[larrysogla]

If it is that far from the road..............could be dangerous now from the pot fields that are sprouting now in the public forests.
'Nuff said
larrysogla