Endangered California condors turning up with lead poisoning

[Common Sense]

I don't understand all of this. Are you guys saying lead bullets are a no-no for condors, but if you have copper bullets it is okay to shoot them???????

 

[barel74]

between the fires and the condors, you socal guys better just give up hunting all together

 

[Rancho Loco]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

I don't understand all of this. Are you guys saying lead bullets are a no-no for condors, but if you have copper bullets it is okay to shoot them???????[/b]

I thought we were having a serious discussion?

 

[WildlifeBranch]

We're of course very interested in finding out the source of the poisonings of these birds and hope it can be determined and eliminated.


This may be the timing of when they normally capture the birds to test them as I think last May similarly had several birds with high levels of lead.

Does Tejon require gutpiles to be buried? that isn't a state regulation.

Eric

 

[Speckmisser]

Rancho, time will tell and the facts will out. Personally, I have serious doubts and I think the article was extremely and unfairly biased. Based on the poorly researched material elsewhere in the article, it could be simply a matter of the writer jumping to their own conclusions. Or maybe there's something serious going on at Tejon. I just can't see it.

IF the lead did come from ammunition, my money says it's from carcasses outside the Ranch from dep shooters killing coyotes and pigs in the adjacent farmland. Maybe the FWS can provide the real answer, but I won't hold my breath.

WildlifeBranch, Tejon just started asking hunters to bury gutpiles and remains (hides and heads). However, later in the weekend during our last hunt (Memorial Day), they told us we could dump them in the "boneyard", which is an open-air dump. This leads me to think the requirement is more about aesthetics for the sake of potential buyers/developers than about condors. They don't want carcasses left along the road sides.

 

[grtwythunter]

Yes Tejon now requires hunters to bury gutpiles and hides/heads. I won't name names but when I asked why since we're all shooting copper the person acknowledged that it was more to keep it out of sight of the real estate/developer types that are now frequenting the ranch.

I personally think the lead is coming from biologists that want to keep the gravy train rolling.

Scott

 

[PORCH]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Live2hunt @ Jun 4 2008, 08:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

The birds started turning up sick about a month ago during random trappings at Bitter Creek National Wildlife Refuge in the southwestern San Joaquin Valley foothills of Kern County.[/b]

That right there sounds very suspicious to me. Sounds like birds were healthy up til the time they were trapped. Heck if they gobbled up lead toxic in the wild, then they would have been sick or dead before they were trapped, instead they started turning up sick after they were trapped? Sounds to me like someone is physically shoving lead down the birds' throats after being captured.




L2H
[/b][/quote]


I also thought the same exact thing.

 

[Marty]

The problem with such biased reporting is that it has now been picked up by the local television broadcasts.

"Condors, lead, hunting... bad."

Utterly pathetic.

 

[ooja]

These birds have lived off the carcasses provided by predator kills and human kills for a long time. Maybe a lot of people are killing animals all over the area and leaving them, and maybe that is the source of the lead, but this seems unlikely to me given the amount of time they have been surviving.

However, if that is the case, then this legislation is a complete failure.

If people are still using enough lead to perpetuate the extermination of this species (if that is indeed the source of the lead) in spite of it all, then they can continue to do so on their own private property and deep in the forests, this law cannot be enforced.

I propose a positive situation, a positive answer. Lets bring in some biologists and find out what it takes to get a lot more game in these areas, so there are lots more carcasses to feed the big flying uglies. Let's fix this land so the birds are happy again, and that means lots of animals for them to eat. Alright, if it must be a lead ban, so be it, but we need to give these birds some good quality food supplies so their population can bounce back.

For this reason, I humbly submit, that we must (sadly) bring an end to the ban on mountain lion hunting in condor range. We will increase populations of everything that the birds eat, and this, in conjunction with the lead ban will hopefully provide enough wholesome carcasses for the condors to survive. We have to do it for the condors everyone!

 

[MJB]

This Friday is a POR on the southside??????

 

[MJB]

Just talked to the ranch.

It will close from 6/9-7/9 looks like I'm going this weekend. Northside!!!! Tejon Canyon here I come with bow in hand.

 

[Huntr Pat]

Someone may have few xtra 000' in there account hmmm smells kinda fishy. Why would they go that far. DARN Anti's. Up to their tricks.

 

[hatchet1]

i actually just read the article for the first time and vomited a little ,i know i buried the one gut pile
i left last season, whats the dealio?

by the way, whats with the 30 day closure?is
this tejons way of glad handing the granolas? lord give us all strength

 

[ltdann]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (WildlifeBranch @ Jun 4 2008, 09:54 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

We're of course very interested in finding out the source of the poisonings of these birds and hope it can be determined and eliminated.


This may be the timing of when they normally capture the birds to test them as I think last May similarly had several birds with high levels of lead.

Does Tejon require gutpiles to be buried? that isn't a state regulation.

Eric[/b]

Any idea when when we can expect to the results of the testing and any conclusions?

I'm unclear what the significance of the timing of bird capture has on the problem. Could you explain?

 

[hifi55]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MJB @ Jun 5 2008, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Just talked to the ranch.

It will close from 6/9-7/9 looks like I'm going this weekend. Northside!!!! Tejon Canyon here I come with bow in hand.[/b]

Does this mean all hunting, even the archery POR on June 20-22? I've been unable to get a call back from the Ranch yet...

Thanks!

 

[hifi55]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hifi55 @ Jun 5 2008, 09:44 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MJB @ Jun 5 2008, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just talked to the ranch.

It will close from 6/9-7/9 looks like I'm going this weekend. Northside!!!! Tejon Canyon here I come with bow in hand.[/b]

Does this mean all hunting, even the archery POR on June 20-22? I've been unable to get a call back from the Ranch yet...

Thanks!
[/b][/quote]


Just talked to Barbara... the archery hunts are still on, just no rifle...

 

[Speckmisser]

From some conversations with some people, it looks like the closures came down from outside the wildlife management/hunting office. Not sure exactly where, but initially was going to be a 60 day closure. No one seems to be sure when the results will be available, or if the closures will be extended.

During the closure, from 6/9 - 7/9, no firearms will be allowed on the ranch, either by public hunters or members. Members can come to the ranch for sightsteeing or bowhunting, but are subject to vehicle search.

If you have a firearm hunt scheduled, either a private hunt or guided during the closure, you're out of luck. I'm assuming they'll try to contact as many people as they can to reschedule or refund the hunt, but you may need to take the initiative yourself.

More to come, you can count on that.

 

[easymoney]

"During the closure, from 6/9 - 7/9, no firearms will be allowed on the ranch, either by public hunters or members. Members can come to the ranch for sightsteeing or bowhunting, but are subject to vehicle search."

HMMM, wonder if this is a future scenario for the entire condor zone whether public or private? Weapon and vehicle searches, possible closures at will and continued condor deaths regardless of bullet type?
Seems like this whole condor death thing is taking a seperate life of it's own because of either bad press or innuendo. The "science" behind this closure just does not add up, especially the timing and the supposed crisis mode. It's not as if every hunter in CA is shooting all the game at Tejon with lead bullets and just leaving them lie everywhere on purpose.
But the, "Yes Tejon now requires hunters to bury gutpiles and hides/heads. I won't name names but when I asked why since we're all shooting copper the person acknowledged that it was more to keep it out of sight of the real estate/developer types that are now frequenting the ranch." makes more sense as the pending development is worth a hell of a lot more money, with no hunters or hunting allowed at all than the numbers of hunts taken combined...
I agree with mr misser, "More to come, you can count on that."...
And it will be good to hear what info wildlifebranch has to share in the coming months...

 

[WildlifeBranch]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ltdann @ Jun 5 2008, 09:02 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Any idea when when we can expect to the results of the testing and any conclusions?

I'm unclear what the significance of the timing of bird capture has on the problem. Could you explain?[/b]

Sorry Dan, I don't know about the timing of results as USFWS is lead agency on condor. On the timing of capture -- I think I remember reading the condor recovery group works to capture all the birds 1 or 2 times per year to test them and this just may be the time they did so.

Last year in May, I seem to remember they reported a few that were high in lead as well.

 

[socalkid]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MJB @ Jun 5 2008, 08:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Just talked to the ranch.

It will close from 6/9-7/9[/b]

Thats just great.

I have yet to bag my pig from my membership there and my Barnes bullets for my new hunting rifle will arrive next week.

Looks like I'll have to push myself to get my first DIY big game animal, and without a rifle I may have to schedule a few more outings than expected.

This lead ban was not too much for me, just a change in ammuniton. But to loose my privelage of hunting with a firearm for a membership that was not at all cheap, that is just too much.

BTW, any Tejon pig hunting tips with a bow would be greatly appreciated.