Endangered California condors turning up with lead poisoning

[spectr17]

Can we get some outside observers in to verify what our goobermint employees (USFWS) are telling us? For some reason I keep thinking back to that USFWS biologist in CO who faked the lynx existence in CO to further their agenda there.

Can reporters come document what is happening or this all secret squirrel stuff us unwashed masses cannot view?

Also, I was asked through a friend from a friend at Tejon today to pull my YouTube video of us shooting ground squirrels there with non lead ammo on May 24, 2008. The video had Tejon on the title as a location. Anybody wanna climb out on that limb and venture a guess why?

We may have just had our last pig hunt there with guns.

 

[hifi55]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (socalkid @ Jun 5 2008, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

This lead ban was not too much for me, just a change in ammuniton. But to loose my privelage of hunting with a firearm for a membership that was not at all cheap, that is just too much.

BTW, any Tejon pig hunting tips with a bow would be greatly appreciated.

[/b]

Man, that bites... Maybe the ranch will help you out and let you carry over your pig to another membership period?

If you're going to switch to bow hunting for now, the biggest thing is to be sure to practice a lot and make sure your accuracy is where it needs to be, somewhere around solid 4" groups or better out to your max range (hopefully 40 yards or more). Of course, the wind is your worst enemy or your best friend when you try and get close...

 

[Common Sense]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Rancho Loco @ Jun 4 2008, 09:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE

I don't understand all of this. Are you guys saying lead bullets are a no-no for condors, but if you have copper bullets it is okay to shoot them???????[/b]

I thought we were having a serious discussion?
[/b][/quote]


Sorry if I fornicated the thread.

 

[PORCH]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spectr17 @ Jun 5 2008, 08:03 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Can we get some outside observers in to verify what out goobermint employees (USFSW) are telling us? For some reason I keep thinking back to that USFS biologist in CO who faked the lynx existence in CO to further their agenda there.

Can reporters come document what is happening or this all secret squirrel stuff us unwashed masses cannot view?

Also, I was asked through a friend from a friend at Tejon today to pull my YouTube video of us shooting ground squirrels there with non lead ammo on May 24, 2008. The video had Tejon on the title as a location. Anybody wanna climb out on that limb and venture a guess why?

We may have just had our last pig hunt there with guns.[/b]

Please tell me you aren't/didn't pull it.

 

[spectr17]

Condor dies from lead poisoning, and the USFWS has no clue on source of the lead

By JIM MATTHEWS, Outdoor News Service

June 4 2008

Over the past 3 1/2 weeks, seven endangered California condors have been found to have dangerously high blood lead levels, and one of the birds died after three days of intensive treatment at the Los Angeles Zoo, according to Jesse Grantham with the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service in Santa Barbara.

Grantham said the current crisis with lead-poisoned condors comes after a relatively long period without significant lead incidents in California. It also comes on the eve of a lead ammunition ban for big game and varmint hunting set to take affect July 1 this year in the range of condors.

The current lead poisoning incidents have baffled condor scientists. There are no major hunting seasons open on public lands where the condors might have been feeding, and the Tejon Ranch which is where the birds poisoned are suspected to have been feeding banned lead hunting ammunition in January this year, so it is highly unlikely they were getting lead bullet fragments there.

"The Tejon Ranch has gone out of their way to work with us on this, but it's a mystery right now," said Grantham.

While some of the environmental groups who have pushed for the lead ban were quick to jump on the issue and say even more restrictive lead regulations are needed, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service staff are scratching their heads and trying to figure out where the birds are getting the lead.

The Tejon Ranch has even agreed to a 30-day moratorium on hunting on the ranch beginning Monday to allow the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to investigate further.

The incident began nearly four weeks ago when the USFWS biologists were doing some routine trapping to refit birds with new radio telemetry equipment. During this trapping, the birds' blood levels are checked for lead poisoning. Two of the birds had very high lead levels and were taken into captivity for treatment, and one of those birds subsequently died. The metal fragments found in the two birds' intestinal tract were sent to U.C. Santa Cruz for analysis.

This prompted the USFWS to trap more birds and test for lead. Three more birds were found to have elevated levels of lead and one regurgitated some metallic fragments while being treated for lead poisoning. More trapping was done and two more birds were found with high lead levels. This led the scientists to check the five chicks in nests this year and their parents. One of the chicks had very high lead levels and one of its parents was "off the charts," indicating the chick was getting the lead-taited food from its parents. All of these birds now have declining lead levels and are expected to survive.

The lead-poisoned condors were all known or suspected to be feeding on the Tejon Ranch, the Wildlands Conservancy's Windwolves Preserve, and the Bitterwater National Wildlife Refuge (where carcasses are put out to feed the birds). Biologists immediately focused on the Tejon because of its wild hog hunting program, but with the Tejon aggressively enforcing its lead ammunition ban, it is simply impossible hog gut piles on the Tejon are the source the lead.

With all of the money that has been thrown at California condors over the past two decades, I find it incredible that all of them are not wearing GPS locators that can tell the exact location of the condors continuously. This would allow the agency to pinpoint the exact locations where they had been feeding and find the source of the problems instead of speculating and making recommendations and decisions based on assumptions instead of facts.

Right now, the Tejon Ranch has agreed to shut down its wild hog hunting program for 30-days (at a cost of around $50,000), while the USFWS spins its wheels some more and continues to speculate.

The analysis of the metal fragments at U.S. Santa Cruz next week will undoubtedly come back as "lead bullet fragments," even though the science can't tell if the lead is from a bullet, a wheel weight, or an ancient toothpaste tube picked up at a dump. The analysis won't say "possibly a bullet fragment," which would be more honest.

The USFWS has already made up its mind on the source, and the environmentalists are already staging and will be banging the drum for a complete lead ammunition ban in California even before the current one is tested.

I wouldn't even be surprised if a lead-tainted carcass wasn't put out by these people just to "reinforce" their point. Sadly, that makes as much sense as any explanation the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is offering.

 

[flyarmyguns]

The best thing that could happen here in California, is the inevitable extinction of that nasty disesed bird.
It's going the way of the Dodo anyway and as soon as these fools understand that the sooner we can get back to normal.

 

[Common Sense]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (spectr17 @ Jun 6 2008, 12:32 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

With all of the money that has been thrown at California condors over the past two decades, I find it incredible that all of them are not wearing GPS locators that can tell the exact location of the condors continuously. This would allow the agency to pinpoint the exact locations where they had been feeding and find the source of the problems instead of speculating and making recommendations and decisions based on assumptions instead of facts.[/b]

I read somewhere that all the condors do have GPS devices on their wings. Mr. Matthews seems to thinks they don't. What's the truth?

 

[Mntngoat]

Somethings tells me it's going to start with a 30 day closure then a 90 day closure to hunting, then 6 months before you know it there is be no more hunting on Tejon. Sounds like an inside job since development is worth lots more than hunting.


ML

 

[Speckmisser]

The birds have GPS and radio tracking devices, but they don't keep constant track as the signal is often lost in deep canyons or in the caves where birds sometimes nest.

Even more interesting is Mr Grantham's statement that there hasn't been a significant lead issue in years, despite the fact that in November, the condor folks themselves at the CA Condor Conservation organization found 11 of 22 birds in Baja to have dangerous levels of lead, and had to send them to San Diego for treatment.

But the most interesting thing I found in reading about the situation in Baja is that the researchers concluded that the lead the birds had been ingesting came FROM THE CARCASSES THEY PROVIDED AT THE FEEDING STATION!
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Since both free flying and pre-release captive birds were affected during the recent episode, it is likely that the lead was in food that we fed to both the captive and free flying groups. We buy live and dead large domestic animals from local ranchers and have to rely on the owners, when possible, for their health history and our site manager Juan’s inspection of the carcass. After the lead poisoning case in Baja of captive bird 319 in 2005, we have been scanning with a metal detector each carcass (horse, cow, or goat) for lead from potential gunshot wounds acquired earlier in the animal’s life. This technique works, but unfortunately it is only effective to a few inches in depth, which apparently still leaves sufficient risk that lead shot deeper in the tissue can go undetected.[/b]

You can read the whole article at their website/blog: http://cacondorconservation.org/content/bl...soning-in-baja/

It's also worth checking out more of their articles. I found the site to actually be very even-handed when it came to who's to blame for lead poisoning. They don't let hunters off the hook, of course, but they don't make it sound like hunters are single-handedly destroying the population either.

 

[MJB]

I have a feeling this tread will be a long one.........

Where is SCI and the other groups to monitor the findings?

 

[Speckmisser]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MJB @ Jun 6 2008, 07:50 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Where is SCI and the other groups to monitor the findings?[/b]

Well, here's one group that's not interested in the findings... they wanna act now!

Humane Society Calls For Ban on Lead Ammo After Condor Crisis

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

The Humane Society of the United States today urged a nationwide ban on lead-shot ammunition after the lead poisoning of critically endangered California condors. One of the birds has died, "evidence that this ammo keeps on killing long after it leaves the gun barrel," the society said.[/b]

 

[hatchet1]

IMAGINE THAT!!!

 

[Marty]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

I wouldn't even be surprised if a lead-tainted carcass wasn't put out by these people just to "reinforce" their point. Sadly, that makes as much sense as any explanation the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service is offering.[/b]

Actually, it makes more sense and has more factual evidence to establish the claim than the position adopted by the USFWS.

 

[Kentuck]

Willing to bet some of it has come from eating dead ground squirrels, especially since a chick was found to have high levels. Has anyone come out with non-toxic 22 ammo yet?

 

[barel74]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Speckmisser @ Jun 6 2008, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

But the most interesting thing I found in reading about the situation in Baja is that the researchers concluded that the lead the birds had been ingesting came FROM THE CARCASSES THEY PROVIDED AT THE FEEDING STATION![/b]

That seems to sum it up pretty good right there.

 

[Marty]

Are you ascerting that a high percentage of 22LR bullets stay in the carcass of a squirrel?

I know one person that has tried all (>98%) copper 22 bullet ammo, and he said the accuracy was terrible.

 

[robbor]

Its a proven fact that the condor cannot sustain or increase its population on its own in the wild.
They have halted legal hunting but have not done anything about landowners shooting animals off the back porch nor do they have this control. Wait until the condors dwindle again, and they release another batch and halt hunting all togather. You will see the fire danger excuse used more and more since los padres adopted it last year.

 

[Kentuck]

Nope, just traces. This theory has huge holes in it though. How many raptures are found dead of lead poisoining in NE CA where it is very popular to shoot ground squirrels? Never hear of any. This is just a very messed up deal all the way around.

 

[Common Sense]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kentuck @ Jun 6 2008, 03:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Willing to bet some of it has come from eating dead ground squirrels, especially since a chick was found to have high levels. Has anyone come out with non-toxic 22 ammo yet?[/b]

Condors scavange large animals. Experts all say they rarely, if ever, consume ground squirrels.

 

[Live2hunt]

What I'm really curious about is they kept finding birds with high blood level of lead poisioning, but how do they know they birds will die with the high blood level of lead? No report of them finding dead birds, which it would be easy for them to find if birds have GPS tracking system on them. And if they did, how did they conclude the caused of death was lead? Seemed like birds were fine in the wild whether with lead in blood or not. Their articles kept saying birds were taken into treatment and died. Sound like if the birds were not taken into treatment, they would have survived. Maybe overdose of treatment is the cause of death or plainly someone effed up in the treatment process, not the blood level of lead to be blamed for death.



L2H