Ethics question

[grtwythunter]

Thank you Bishop.

Scott

 

[RIFLEMAN]

Bishop,
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So how does a rancher get rid of the pigs that are destroying his family business, is you leave the wet sows and their litters?  Dosen't seem to make much sense. Shoot a few adult pigs and leave a sow and a litter of 8-12 piglets. The way pigs multiply you'll never get a handle on the problem.[/b]

If you get a handle on the rest of the breeding adults, leaving a litter of piglets to die of starvation (or mercifully, to a predator) is not necessary. Granted, the dynamics of depredation work differ between rifle/bow and dog, but I don't think that the success of Hogskin's efforts to minimize hog depredation hinges on taking this wet sow.
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The purpose of the depredation hunt here is to remove a destructive, invasive, non-native pest animal from the property.[/b]

Yes, but at what cost? Clearly Hogskin is not too comfortable with the practice, otherwise he would not have brought it up. Should he put aside his own personal ethics to please the landowner?

When someone begins to concede their personal principles to something pragmatic like the opportunity to hunt hogs on a property, they are lost. That my friend, is the definition of corruption.

 

[Bishop]

Originally posted by RIFLEMAN@Dec 23 2005, 05:09 PM
Yes, but at what cost? Clearly Hogskin is not too comfortable with the practice, otherwise he would not have brought it up. Should he put aside his own personal ethics to please the landowner?

When someone begins to concede their personal principles to something pragmatic like the opportunity to hunt hogs on a property, they are lost. That my friend, is the definition of corruption.

Well it's obvious that Paul's a little torn between his desire to be a hunter, and the property owners desire to have him be an exterminator.
But the truth of the matter is the property owner has allowed him to hunt the pigs as a depreditation tool. That means all pigs, or at least the majority of pigs have to be removed from the property. If he feels that he can't do that, then he needs to tell the property owner, and see if the owner is OK with that, or wants to bring in someone who will do the job.
This is not a sport hunt. The purpose is the extermination of the pigs on the owners private land.

 

[RIFLEMAN]

Bishop,
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But the truth of the matter is the property owner has allowed him to hunt the pigs as a depreditation tool...This is not a sport hunt. The purpose is the extermination of the pigs on the owners private land[/b]

True, which means that he must emphasize the quality of the result above the quality of the experience. He can still do so without subverting his principles or dishonoring the agreement with the owner.
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If he feels that he can't do that, then he needs to tell the property owner, and see if the owner is OK with that, or wants to bring in someone who will do the job.[/b]

Exactly what I suggested; inform the landowner of his concerns to be fair to them. If they deem Hogskin to be an asset, they will either tolerate his reservations or accept methods that would allow him to humanely dispatch or catch the piglets.

I am up front with ranchers about my reservations, and I have not encountered any issues with it yet. If you get results for them by other means, they are likely to "forgive" this minor stipulation.

 

[hatchet]

DUDE!!!COME ON!!THOSE HOGS DONT KNOW ITS X-MAS,
STACK UM UP!!

:xmas-hat:

 

[rusman66]

When someone begins to concede their personal principles to something pragmatic like the opportunity to hunt hogs on a property, they are lost. That my friend, is the definition of corruption.

Thats true enough. Thats why you shouldn't base your principles on emotions.

Rolling up your sleeves and doing a job no matter how ugly, we call that gettin er dunn!!! :xmas-hat:

 

[Common Sense]

Unless I was starving to death, I would never shoot a wet doe. That would be wrong(in my opinion).

Yet if I killed a wet gopher, I would be happy with the reults.

Is that pig a pest or game animal?

There is no right answer, it is a personal choice. The answer for Bishop may be different than the answer for Rifleman; and it does not make either of them wrong.

 

[larrysogla]

Those piglets are very tasty on the charcoal..............wild animals are injured and starve to death all the time. It is extermination of a pest. Just like draining of a pond full of invasive, harmful fish species...........heck it is elimination and not hunting. Those sentiments about ethics are noble but it is not applicable on a depredation, extermination shoot. 'Nuff said.

 

[EvBouret]

Nail the sow, then load up the 22 with stingers. My friend shot a 60lb hog the other day with stingers, vital shot. Bullet did a perfect mushroom and went all the way through and stopped at the skin on the other side. On anything really small they will work fine. Took out the top of the heart and a lung

 

[Tom Petterson]

Tipical anti hunter cr@p they love all the wild animals untill there is a problem then they flip and say kill them all by whatever means necisary. BUt still shame on you for wanting to hunt for food/sport shame shame, shame. I hear this same thing from many greenies all the time. If you are trying to shoot the pigs to get rid of them then I say shoot the wet sow. Like the guide in Texas we go with say's " Short or tall shoot"em all"

 

[Hogskin]

Well, the deed is done. Friday evening momma, with four little footballs in tow, came trotting into the pasture and I let one fly. Even with my less than stellar archery skills the 15-foot distance made it an easy shot. She made a lot of racket, did a lot of spinning around, and then ran off. Before she split I put an arrow into one of the little guys too. I was aiming for the sweet spot but it went perfectly through his left eye socket and out the other side of his head. The arrow stopped at the fletching. Sweet. The others followed their mother until she conked out in some tall brush. While retrieving her I saw a pair of beady little eyes peering from underneath a fallen tree. I spent about 15 minutes trying to flush the thing out but couldn’t get her to break. Finally, I just laid on top of the log and made a distraction in the front and then grabbed her by the back leg from the back. I dragged her out and she was not a happy camper. Last time I heard that much squealing and grunting it was my wedding night. She wiggled free and was out of there like she was shot out of a cannon. It was getting late and I wanted to get home so I let her go. After complying with the many ranch rules I stopped by to visit with Arturo (the ranch hand that lives on the property) and shared my harvest with him & his family. They acted like I’d given them a million bucks. I sat down and had homemade tamales (out of this world!) with them. Good people. While driving out the main gate the owner & his wife were pulling in. I told them I’d taken care of the sow and they were extremely appreciative. I told them that I did the job with some reservation – I don’t like orphaning animals but I could see why it was a necessity, I hoped they didn’t have any more problems, etc. The wife, who is the real AR nut of the two, said, “It’s so great that you have an attitude like that. I just know that your positive vibe does so much for the souls of those pigs. I’m sure Mother Earth is proud of you.” I sat there and stared at her blankly. “Yeah. Okay. You guys have a merry Christmas.” And I put it in gear and hit the road.

 

[Bishop]

Well it sounds like Arturo and his family got some very appriciated meat, the owners are happy, and you got a good place to pig hunt in the future. Sounds like a "win win" situation.

 

[Franklin3]

I can't emphasize this enough, but I try.
Go to a Luau and your eating baby pig.
Order veal in a restaurant and your eating baby cow.
My family used to get a 25-30 lb. baby wild pig for Xmas dinners. we dug a pit heated some coals and wood tossed in the little bugger whole cleaned but not skinnned covered with fern proms a wet blanket and buried with dirt. Since then
I have taken every opportunity to kill baby wild pigs every chance I get and I shall endeavor to do so in the future. I don't feel bad. nor guilty, nor bothered by it. i got pictures bvut in case this all strikes your sensibilities as evil let me ....plead

INSANITY!

THEM LITTLE STRIPED WEINER PIGS ARE THE BEST EATING PORK YOUR EVER GONNA HAVE.

i'M CRAZY ABOUT THAT STUFF.

yum yum eat em up!

 

[sportyg]

Hogskin; You did what you had to do and you did it right..

 

[snoopdogg]

This thread has made me laugh like hell; little footballs and everyone elses comments. hahahahaha

Anywho, I think you handled it well and represented yourself as a caring hunter who has been blessed by Mother Earth and all that other crap; more so, you stuck momma and a little stinker and you even shared it with the farm hand, dude-well done!

Congrats!

 

[Mike C]

Sharing the spoils of your hunt with a ranch hand and his family (who is probably underpaid as most are) was the best think you could do. Merry Christmas :xmas-hat:

 

[larrysogla]

Congratulations........a job well done, for sure............and a win-win situation for everybody, yourself, the owners, the ranch hand and his family and most of all the momma piggie and that little striped piglet...............they contributed to a very good dinner for a lot of good people...........happy hunting and we appreciate your stories. 'Nuff said.

 

[shoungl]

Originally posted by Hogskin@Dec 23 2005, 08:12 AM
I’ve got a property in central cal that I’ve been hunting for several months now. It belongs to a client of mine and is a full functioning horse ranch. They have a hog problem – they root in the pastures and on the track - and the owners worry one of their prize horses may become injured as a result. The owners, particularly the wife, are dyed-in-the-wool animal lovers and contribute a good chunk of change to various animal rights organizations. I was surprised when I floated the trial balloon about shooting the hogs for them and they bit on it.

I feel your pain. Sometimes us hunters are an ironic lot. My wife has no problem killing ants and spiders. I don't. If I see a spider, I figure it's got as much right to live as I do. I take them out of the bathtub or wherever I see 'em and relocate them . Ants are harder to relocate, so I just tolerate them. Freaks out my two girls.
What to do ? I would ask the landowners if they'' allow you to shoot a 22. Tell them they'll never hear the gunfire, and it'll be a much more efficient way to rid their ranch of pests. Load up a Marlin 60 or Ruger 10/22 with CCI Stingers, hollow points and you can easily eliminate the whole herd. Start with the sow first. After she's down the piglets will likely circle around, confused. Then you just blast each one of them. Think barbque, little piglets on a roasting stick. That'll get you past the squeamishness. Myself I wouldn't want the shoot the mom and leave the piggies to starve. I'm sure the landowner would allow the use of a 22.
BTW, why don't you take them out bottle/can shooting w/ a 22, so they can see for themselves how quiet they are. No louder booming to hurt the eardrums. Heck, they might enjoy it so much they might even join you on the depredation hunt !

Boarhuntr
Michael

:xmas-hat:

 

[RIFLEMAN]

Bishop,
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Well it sounds like Arturo and his family got some very appriciated meat, the owners are happy, and you got a good place to pig hunt in the future. Sounds like a "win win" situation.[/b]

Yeah, except for the piglets left to starve.


Franklin,
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

I can't emphasize this enough, but I try. Go to a Luau and your eating baby pig.
Order veal in a restaurant and your eating baby cow. My family used to get a 25-30 lb. baby wild pig for Xmas dinners. Since then I have taken every opportunity to kill baby wild pigs every chance I get and I shall endeavor to do so in the future. I don't feel bad. nor guilty, nor bothered by it. i got pictures bvut in case this all strikes your sensibilities as evil...[/b]

The issue I raised was not about the evils of killing and eating piglets or other young animals. Rather, it was just the opposite. If the mother is to be killed for whatever reason, so too should the piglets. A quick and humane kill by rifle or bow is much better than leaving the piglets to starve.


shoungl,
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My wife has no problem killing ants and spiders. I don't. If I see a spider, I figure it's got as much right to live as I do. I take them out of the bathtub or wherever I see 'em and relocate them[/b]

I am the same way. My wife makes fun of me because I catch spiders by hand and set live traps for mice so that I can relocate them.


Hogskin,
I can sympathize with the challenging situation you faced. Hopefully, you will be able to find the rest of the litter and put them out of their misery.

 

[Predator Magnet]

It's only fair for me to help out another hunter. I shall make the ultimate sacrifice and do the job for you. It's the least I can do. I'll even clean up and haul away all of those pesky animals.

NOTICE: BBQ at Red's this weekend. Baby back ribs, spiral cut BBQ ham and sausage on the grill. Stay for breakfast and enjoy our all-you-can-eat bacon bar.