Ethics question

[Hogskin]

I’ve got a property in central cal that I’ve been hunting for several months now. It belongs to a client of mine and is a full functioning horse ranch. They have a hog problem – they root in the pastures and on the track - and the owners worry one of their prize horses may become injured as a result. The owners, particularly the wife, are dyed-in-the-wool animal lovers and contribute a good chunk of change to various animal rights organizations. I was surprised when I floated the trial balloon about shooting the hogs for them and they bit on it. Their are a lot of rules that I have to comply with while on the property (some which I think are pretty retarded) but it’s definitely worth it. A couple weeks ago they noticed the hogs coming into the east pasture again so I went up and took two. They called me again on Monday to say, “Arturo saw another pack of them. It looked like a momma with a bunch of little babies. Hopefully you can shoot the momma and get rid of all of them at once.” They know the implication of killing a wet sow. So my ethical dilemma is, do I shoot a wet sow? No question, I wouldn’t do this if I was out in the wild but this is essentially a depredation hunt. I’m heading out this afternoon and probably tomorrow for part of the day for another try. Any advice is appreciated.

p.s., I wonder if the animal rights organizations they contribute money to would advocate orphaning a bunch of babies.

 

[Gyopo]

Take advantage of the situation while you can.
Call me if you need back up or feel bad about orphaning swine.

Killing animals on a greenie's property w/their blessing,...priceless!!!!!!!

 

[BobcatJess]

Good Morning Hogskin,

About how big are the little piggies with the wet sow. The good thing about hogs, if the wet sow gets killed the piggies will take to another sow in the area.

How large is the horse ranch? Be real careful and keep those hogs out of the water troughs. I have seen some nice horses lost due to them getting sick from the water that the hogs got a hold of.


Jess.

 

[Rancho Loco]

Depredation is just that...It's not fair chase, it's eliminating a pest.

As tough as it is under normal conditions - Momma and the babies get smoked.

.

 

[hatchet]

hit her fast and hit her hard, leave none off the motherless children
behind![they eat fantastic].

 

[Bwana Turtle]

Got an auto rifle ? Shoot the little footballs and put them on a spit. Cook "em up for Christmas. Then shoot Mom.

 

[snoopdogg]

I hear that the little dudes taste pretty frickin' good and are plenty tender. I hope you can shoot fast and dump most of them. Maybe they won't leave momma after you nail her and you can wrap the whole little group.

 

[hunt hard]

Do what you got to do. its there property so if thats what they want i would say do it. As long as it is legal. happy hunting.

 

[Orso]

Under the circumstances you describe, definitely kill the sow and if possible kill as many of the little ones as you can. Yotes will get them if you don't.

 

[Hogskin]

Thanks for the input.

Among the many rules - no rifles or shotguns allowed, strictly archery. I might be able to stick one of the kids after putting one in the mother but certainly not all of them. It's not like I'm afraid it will be the end of the species if I take out the mother. I just don't like the idea of the little fellars starving to death. As a guy who loves to eat, it goes againt my principles.

I didn't know that they'd take up with another sow. Good info. The ranch is several hundred acres in size. An adjoining ranch shoots anything that gets onto it which is why I think they are seeking haven on this place.

 

[bjake21]

I wouldn't worry either about the babies starving to death, they'll get eaten somehow or maybe they will hook up with another sow. Good luck, and like Gyopo said if you need another archer, you know where to find us

 

[rusman66]

This is gonna sound heartless and probably is, but if you stick mom and then quietly watch from cover where she comes to rest in peace. You will more than likely get a few more shots at the little ones as they try to figure out what happened to mamma.

 

[Rancho Loco]

Mebbe this is a good opportunity to change the "archery only" rule..

 

[grtwythunter]

Paul, I have a similar dilemna on a sheep ranch I hunt coyotes on. It is my personal rule not to hunt yotes during the denning season for the same reasons you are reluctant to shoot a wet sow. These folks have a problem though and asked me to take care of it for them. It's something I don't partictularly care to do, but it is necessary to control the problem.

It's not something I'd advocate if you were hunting public land or with a guide,, but as Rancho said.......
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Depredation is just that...It's not fair chase, it's eliminating a pest.[/b]

My

Scott

 

[RIFLEMAN]

Hogskin,

I do some depredation work for some ranchers who pastures are continually under attack by hogs. These ranchers depend on the health of their pastures to maximize the number of cows they can run on it in order to stay in the business and continue to own the land that has been in their families for generations.

Despite this threat to their livelihoods and legacies, they acknowledge and accept my staunch position that I will not knowingly kill a wet sow.

If a bunch of old time ranchers (who depend more on the health of the grass than a horse operation does) can understand my opposition to this practice, then surely an animal rights activist would understand if you could not bring yourself to kill their wet sows.

I would suggest, at least, that you raise your concerns with them and explain your reservations. At the very least, you will have illustrated to the activist that hunters are not bloodthirsty monsters. At most, you can avoid this situation and wait for the pigs to get a little older before you bring them home.

 

[RIFLEMAN]

I disagree with the assertion that depredation work must be "no holds barred" and that you should somehow leave your heart at home.

Depredation work should emphasize the most effective method of taking depredating animals, and minimize a emphasis on fair chase practices and the quality of the experience.

It does not, in my opinion, obligate one to knowingly sentence young animals to a fate of starvation--especially under these less-than-dire circumstances.

 

[pitdog]

Very well said Rifleman

 

[Bishop]

So how does a rancher get rid of the pigs that are destroying his family business, if you leave the wet sows and their litters?
Dosen't seem to make much sense. Shoot a few adult pigs and leave a sow and a litter of 8-12 piglets. The way pigs multiply you'll never get a handle on the problem.
The purpose of the depredation hunt here is to remove a destructive, invasive, non-native pest animal from the property.

 

[spectr17]

My first experience with depredation was this old farmer we deer hunted on his land In MO. When the beavers took over and damned up the river it flooded our hunting area and part of his crop land. One day he told me to hop in the truck as he drove down to the spot with a funny box he had, with a big T handle sticking out the top.

Some of the farm boys we hunted with had created a leak in the beaver's dam and the little whiskered demons were working furiously at repairing the hole. The farmer hooked up two wires to the box, some bets were placed and then he pushed the plunger.

Ka-BOOOOM. Half them beavers cleared the railroad tracks 1/4 away on the fly. The water drained down so we could hunt and he could get his crops in.

They had been shooting the beavers when they saw them but they said they needed a faster and better solution. From what I saw they found it. One beaver we found intact, looked like he had died from fright. He was the length of a tailgate when we laid him across it. 50+ pounds. Looked like a harbor seal he was so fat and furry.

I guess we won't be advocation denning then.

 

[Jagermeister]

You need to do what you are comfortable with. If you are not comfortable killing the sow, don't do it. If the property owners don't understand - fine. I would not force myself to do something that I don't like, no matter what hunting opportunity or whatever else will possibly be lost.

That said, I personally would have no trouble killing that sow. I would hope for some suckling pigs in the process. Likely the piglets will hang around enough for you to go after a few.

Maybe they let you use a small rifle? You can get the sow with the bow and get the rest of them with a .22 or other varmint rifle that you can advertise as "small bore" and "less dangerous".

Glad to see some "animal lovers" converted. The honeymoon is over quick once those cute animals plow the golf course ...

George