FHL Window

[hubbabubba]

Jesse,

Why is that you never want to write positive letters about the opportunity to just be hunting on the base? or anything else for that matter? It's a HECK of a lot easier to NOT have hunting then to have it. You don't like this, You don't like that, this is wrong, that's wrong, etc etc etc...

For the sake of others, keep your personal beef on a personal level.

We (hunters) should be doing everything possible to keep places like FHL open. Even if it means sucking up a little pride to be a better man and not letting little personal annoyances create such a bitter attitude affecting the greater masses.

 

[spectr17]

Hello hubba, or is it Cindy or the other window worker at FHL?

Well, let's see. I witnessed no less than 4 other hunters seperate from my group get the same treatment as we did so I was relieved it wasn't just something I said or did. At first I felt bad that it was something I said but it was soon obvious who had the problem.

The buddy I met there also mentioned the poor atitude at the check in window before I got there. It was his first visit and not a good one according to him when checking in.

You can also read the other comments about the window in the FHL thread. I'll let them speak for themselves. Sdbowyer posted one about his rude treatment and never going back I remember. Here is sdbowyer's post in case you missed it.

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Wow, I thought I was the only one. To tell you the truth this is why I've only been to FHL one time. I don't know if we're talking about the same lady but I went a few years back by myself for the first time. I didn't know anything about the routine and they made it as painful as possible to figure it out with her whole attitude. Another gal was a bit more helpful but the dark-haired one? - NASTY!

I like the "idea" of FHL but I don't take bad counter people very well and this was definitely among the top 3 of worst experiences for me in my life with rude help. Hence I've never been back.[/b]

Back to your quotes.

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Why is that you never want to write positive letters about the opportunity to just be hunting on the base? or anything else for that matter? It's a HECK of a lot easier to NOT have hunting then to have it. You don't like this, You don't like that, this is wrong, that's wrong, etc etc etc...[/b]

This is the first time I've spoken or written about the hunter check in window service. If you'll refer to my post on my other thread you see I'll plainly state I've never had a problem before with ANYONE there. You'll also notice I wrote that I want hunting to continue on the fort and not have it closed due to poor service or hunters being run off. It's a great place to hunt.

Have you even read my other posts or are you here to just push your agenda?

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We (hunters) should be doing everything possible to keep places like FHL open. Even if it means sucking up a little pride to be a better man and not letting little personal annoyances create such a bitter attitude affecting the greater masses.[/b]

You can ask my buddy who was standing next to me at the window, I was in the middle of apologizing to Cindy when she stomped off. Pride? It's obvious you don't have a clue about me. I was aplogizing just to keep the peace since I wasn't sure what I/we had done. Later it was obvious it wasn't just me who had trouble there.

How many people have to post the VERY same complaint until you admit there is something wrong? 10? 20? 50? Give me a number I can work with.

 

[EVAN III]

Well I for one will admit I've never hunted FHL, but I have been planning to. I wasn't there either, so I can't comment on what happened to the hunters at the window. I have hunted with Jesse on several occasions and I don't believe I have ever heard him say or call anyone names. But like I said I wasn't there. With that being said, I have to say I'm not the least bit impressed with what I've heard from hubba bubba along with other members of this board. For one, hubba bubba said something along the lines of

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"The hunting program is a priveledge not a right."[/b]

Well that's a load of crap if you ask me. I guess it's kind of like, if you want to hunt here you have to put up with my crap and kiss my backside, or else you can't hunt here. Well if FHL were privately owned I might buy that, but as far as I know FHL is government property. Now I know the base comander can close down the hunting program at will, But how petty would that be.

Shutting down the program just because some or a bunch of hunters complained about the HELP, in this case the window attendents. Well I for one say complain tell something is done about the problem, if in the process we lose our hunting rights to FHL, then so be it. It also seems to me that if the hunting program is shut down, then the people working the window are affected also. They may not lose there job, but without hunters, there is no hunter check-in, and therefor no need to have Cindy or the other window worker. Sounds like a pretty cake job to me, I personally would not like to be moved some where else. I'm in for sending a letter, and explaining that because of the reputation of the people at FHL, I will not hunt or even consider hunting at FHL. I'm not sure how much income actully comes into FHL from the fees paid by hunters, but I sure won't be paying for bad treatment. Now if Jesse was the only person I have heard complaints from, I would probly have to take my chances and pay to hunt the fort, but thats not the case. I have heard from many other people about the bad treatment. There seems to be a problem, and something needs to be done.

As to the other members on this site, I personally don't care if FHL is the best place on earth to hunt, nobody is gonna treat me like a scrub. If that means I lose the right to hunt there, well I'll hunt somewhere else. I don't know about you guys, but I don't bow down and take anyones crap, just so they will LET me hunt. They aren't that special, and they can't make me quit hunting. They can only make me hunt somewhere else. Anyway, happy hunting to all, wherever that may be. I'll be doing it with pride!

 

[Kickaha]

This reminds me of the Seinfeld episode, The Soup Nazi. Know what you want before you get there. Walk up to the counter. Place your order. Move to the left. Pay. Leave. Anything else and it's "No soup for you!". In this case, it's "No hunting for you!".

I have personally never had a problem with Cindy, but have seen others who were treated less than kindly. The one guy I can think of was taking forever trying to decide where to hunt. He was right in front of me. Cindy finally got kind of short with him. Didn't really bother me at the time. In fact, I probably smiled.

My brother got a hunting license and FHL annual permit last May (he didn't listen to me). He never used it. Cindy called towards the end of June and offered to send his money order back if he didn't come up. She did. I thought that was kind of nice (although it might be FHL or DFG policy).

I've worked serving the public, both in private and public sector jobs. When you do it day after day for years, you're bound to have a few off days. As Jesse has said he has never had a problem before, I'd personally give Cindy the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to just one of those days. It seems to have escalated a bit with no one wanting to admit the least bit of responsibility. Human nature. The threats will probably be enough to change her attitude for a little while.

Now that I think of it, all of my longer and kinder conversations with her have been later in the day when it wasn't crowded. And all of the "rude" incidents have been in the early morning when there's a line of hunters. Seems like that might be a part of the problem - the pressure from knowing that there are two dozen hunters waiting for help while trying to babysit a newbie through the process. No matter what one does in that situation, someone is going to get upset.

I'm not trying to make excuses for her and there are probably 100 better ways to handle it - all of which don't involve being rude to anyone. I'm just not sure the situation is all that bad. To me it sounds as if these are isolated incidents surrounding a specific period of time. People are human. Cindy's probably human too.

Humans make mistakes.

Then again, I wasn't there and didn't have a window slammed in my face. That's bound to leave a bad impression.

Hubbabubba, take a breath, don't respond for a while, think on these things, and come back in the spirit of trying to find solutions. Maybe we can all pitch in and make a big instruction board for the newbies so they won't take up everyone's time.

 

[spectr17]

Hello kickaha,

The reason I've never had any trouble with Cindy is I was told on my first visit to FHL many years ago to watch my step with her. So it's always been short & sweet & thank you at the window. I've even waited for the other window just to avoid her after watching her rip guys for no reason. When the other lady was there I tried to get her instead. Why do we have to walk on egg shells because of her? She can be queen bee if she wants, all we ask is to be half way civil to us, the CUSTOMERS.

As far as timing, no, that's not it. At first I chalked it up to her having a bad day. We all have them. After 3 days of being lied to and badgered and then being blamed for my problem with my money refund both of us knew she was out of line. As I pointed out, I talked to her in the morning, evening and several times in the afternoon when it wasn't crowded. The same for the other hunters I saw her giving the rude and obnoxious treatment to.

hubba is here because some of us have had enough and are finally speaking up about the problem. Woe be it that Cindy have to attend a customer relations or anger management class so we can just ask a simple question without worrying if she is going to go postal on us at the window.

Soup Nazi? Yeah, unfortunately that's a pretty close description.

 

[MrMullen]

FHL is Government property. I pay taxes to the Republic of California and to the Federal Government of the United States of America. Cindy is a either a State employee or a Federal employee, so she works for you and me, and thus there is no excuse for poor behavior for any reasons. We're not paying her to be mean to people so we can keep her off welfare; she is there to serve us, and if she treats people like garbage, then something has to be done about it. If I treated people like garbage in my civilian job, they would fire me faster than Barbara Boxer would like to confiscate my guns (Zing!).


The Federal Government and the State Government does not dictate to you or me, we tell it what to do. Yes, for now, we still live in a free democrate country were elected offical are voted for not picked by the High Commander of the Universe (A little "Third Rock from the Sun" comment there.)

 

[Kickaha]

I was putting this in the context of a bad weekend more than a bad day. Everyone has them. Even State and Federal workers.

But if this has been happening for years and it is indeed like walking on eggshells around her, hoping she's in a decent mood but finding she's often not, then there is no excuse. Time for her to get another job.

I'll make an effort to get her window whenever I'm up there just to test this. I won't be videotaping the encounters, but will document them.

 

[hubbabubba]

Kickaha, Point well taken. I agree with you. I truly believe that her incidences are a small minority. Again, I have been going there for the last 15yrs and have NEVER had a problem. But I don't allow for there to be any problems. Most of the hunters in line are twice as knowledgeable about the base then her or her sidekick. Everyone that has been there knows that.

My point is that FHL as no obligation to keep the hunting program alive. If the Commander keeps hearing all this petty nonsense, he only has to blink to shut everything down. 99% of the time when something is gone, it's gone for good!

Take your beef up with Cindy, write her letters, why not give her a chance to respond. Your conflict is with her and that's where it should stay FIRST. Give her an opportunity to look in the mirror, listen to your concerns, and see if her behavior changes. Isn't that fair?

 

[spectr17]

hello hubba,

at least you stuck around to hear our complaints. Not MY complaints, OUR complaints as in plural.

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If the Commander keeps hearing all this petty nonsense,[/b]

One more time, it's not petty if people on their first visit never go back because of their encounter with Cindy at the check in window. I thought it was odd on my first visit many years ago that evey hunter I met there warned me of Cindy. I had this vision of her riding a broom from all the hunters I met. We talked with several other groups of hutners on our last visit and they all agreed it was a problem and cringed about their window experiences. This was when I finally decided it was high time for a change and to speak up. I psoted on here to see what the response was from people and it backs up what i have seen first hand and been told by other hunters. Her goal to see how many hunters she can piss off by lunch time is no longer acceptable.

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But I don't allow for there to be any problems.[/b]

Please explain how you do that? How do you prevent someone from being rude and condescending? Face it, there are few people out there who have nothing better to do than be a problem. I never had a problem with her because I heeded the advice of the old timers and avoided her. I guess it was finally my turn in the barrel.


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Take your beef up with Cindy, write her letters, why not give her a chance to respond. Your conflict is with her and that's where it should stay FIRST. Give her an opportunity to look in the mirror, listen to your concerns, and see if her behavior changes. Isn't that fair?[/b]

Once again, it's not just me with a beef with Cindy. How many times do you have to hear it to finally admit there is a problem? I tried to express my side to here and was cut off mid sentence with her "Sir" routine, just as other hunters were. She is irrational and not someone you can reason with from what I've seen and heard.

So why not end your charade hubba, are you John at the window or Cindy? You claimed to have been there firsthand so I know your not my buddy and can only be one of the two window workers. We're all adults here trying to work out a solution or is this more of your deception.

 

[hubbabubba]

i think you are now making absolutely rediculous statements.

there are thousands of annuals sold each year. i have heard 8 complaints. so i guess it's worth it because less than 1% have a problem?

your forum members do not make up the majority of opinion about our base. for every one you find that has an annoyance i can offer fifty that have never had a problem.

 

[spectr17]

hubba,

we're still working on gathering the complaints. As they say, there's 3 sides to every story.

How about the pending question? Care to end your charade? Cindy or John?

 

[hubbabubba]

i forgot that Cindy also pay taxes, so she has a right to tell the base commander what to do. why should she have to put up with rude people? i think a new policy should be written regarding the outside looking in. if you are rude or annoying you get banned from the base. problem solved. Cindy gets in trouble for a few bumps, I guess you should get in trouble for the same lack of consideration. you only have to put up with it from one person. Cindy has to put up with it every open day by a much bigger number. draw the line somewhere, it's not just your world. you represent the smallest minority. and there are not too many people that want that job for this very reason.

 

[spectr17]

How about the pending question? Care to end your charade? Cindy or John?

I'm going with John. Just a hunch

You'r e too much, so now us hutners are the problem. Shake yourself, your posts are making you look like a fool now.

 

[hubbabubba]

Cindy or John? hmmmmm.... I guess that's my little secret. Does it matter?

My final word is: You do not represent the majority of hunters or their views, PLEASE stop pretending this is the case.

I will C U Later.

 

[spectr17]

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: You do not represent the majority of hunters or their views, PLEASE stop pretending this is the case.[/b]

This is YOUR opinion. We are still gathering the complaints. If this is all our imagination you have nothing to worry about then. From your posts it appears your trying to do damage control but only shooting yourself in the foot.

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I will C U Later.[/b]

You can count on it. Make sure you smile for the camera. In fact, I've already loaned out my little hidden camcorder setup to some buddies who were up the past couple of weeks. What's really kewl about the setup is the lens is about the size of a pea so you'll never know who has it on. As for the audio, it's a little scratchy but it's intelligable enough to get the gist of the conversations at the check in window.

Have a root beer now on me.

 

[swampfox]

HAHAHA cant deny anything thats on video....EVIDENCE RULES!!!!!

 

[WildBird]

These fools couldn't last a half day at a fast food place.

 

[grtwythunter]

hubba
You seem awful concerned about the base commander getting wind of what's going on at the check-in window. Sounds like you're worried about ol' Cindy losing her job. Could it be because you are Cindy??? Or maybe you're just a bit sweet on her??? Or could you be one of the "regulars" that seem to get a bit of preferential treatment when it's time to get area assignments???

I have hunted the base for about 10 years. For the first 5 or so I was up there about once a month between Oct. and May. There was never a lack of people around the check-in that were willing to help out a newbie. More than one person took the time to draw maps to areas they had seen pigs. Then as the personel changed there was a definite change in the way I saw people treated at FHL. The help at the counter always seemed to be more concerned about their buddies that were always hanging out inside than the guys waiting at the window.

I personally stood in line waiting 10 minutes to change areas while I watched a woman(don't know if it was Cindy or not) BS with a group of guys inside. A few taps on the window got me nothing but dirty looks from them all. Once she opened the window, she took my pass , asked me what area I wanted in, took care of it, then tossed my pass back and quickly shut the window. That was about two years ago....I haven't been back since.

Just this week I was talking to another member of this board about heading back up to FHL. Now that I hear nothing has changed up there, I doubt I will. I'd rather make fewer trips and save my money up, then go to Tejon Ranch where everyone goes out of there way treat the hunters with respect.

As far as attacking Jesse...there's over 3600 members here for a reason. We all like the way Jesse does things and appreciate the work he puts in on this board. Keep up the good work Jesse

Scott

 

[Kernhuntr]

Originally posted by hubbabubba@Dec 4 2002, 05:19 PM
your forum members do not make up the majority of opinion about our base.

Hello Hubbabuba, let me welcome you to JESSE'S forum. In the quote above I place the emphasis on the words"our base". Care to come clean now? It's quite telling, yes?

In Jesse's 9940 posts, I defy you to find all of the negitivity that you purport to be present? What is the precentage of posts?

I am but a lowley moderator, and would love to have you with us, but if you can't answer the questions that Jesse has asked along with others including myself, I would have to say bye, bye to you, for you appear to be nothing more than a troll. Worse than a troll, somebody that has a personal agenda that you are not committed enough to to tell the truth.

Please come clean with the whole story.

 

[jackrabbit]

Since this seems to be the current thread of dialogue on this topic, I thought I would paste my comment from the other thread here also. John/Cindy -- if you are any type of civil service employee please do your public relations job appropriately, otherwise you hurt everyone of your peers out there who is trying to do a decent job and is facing "anti-government-worker" sentiments; doesn't matter to me if your current authorities at the base condone/tolerate your behavior -- seems like your behavior is just awful and not at all tolerable to the public. Either change, or you lose.

Hey John, I haven't been to FHL in about 20 years because it is just far enough from Fresno that I no longer have the time to travel there when I can get to the Sierra National Forest in 45 minutes. But guess what dude?; you lose! You are so dam obvious, it doesn't even take a mental health professional like myself to see it. Also, I represent civilian state civil service workers in my present job; if you and Cindy are federal civilian workers, I would advise you both to try to please your clientele; because if the program you work for is discontinued, look for another job! I'm not even involved in the FHL situation, but I've been at this website since us CA folks were at Hoss' old site linked to the CA DFG page. I enjoy browsing around this site. I'm glad Jesse found you out and exposed you as a muddy mole. Give it up dude, do your job properly -- or I just might be willing to join the rest of the folks on this board and paint up some protest signs with your name on them and picket your place of employment! Peace brother!