Guided hunts - are prices to high?

[Shot]

QUOTE (Speckmisser @ Jan 8 2008, 06:11 AM) http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=951097

7mag, I believe I've pointed this out before, but guided hunts and trespass fees aren't selling animals. They're selling hunting access and guide services. That's why you have to have a license to hunt there. The animals still belong to the State. If you want to hunt inside a fence for legally planted animals, no license is required.

Speckmisser, I respectively disagree with this statement. Let me explain why. All of the hunting operations I know charge for the number of pigs you take, whether its guided or not. I can't think of any place in Cali that charges a trespass fee and allows you to shoot as many pigs as you can. In fact its exact opposite, they charge you a set fee and tell you how many you can shoot (lets say 1 or 2) and if you shoot more than that you get charged. Now what are they charging you for? Obviously they are charging you for the animal (a non-native animal), because you already paid the trespass fee.

This is plainly the States fault. I can't blame DFG because they practically have no say in anything that involves money. How could the state allow this kind of behavior to continue when the DFG's ultimate goal is to restore California to is natural state (look at whats going on with the condors). In fact some states make it illegal to charge a guide or trespass fee for non-native animals (like pigs in Colorado, thats why they practically don't exist in that state).

Now back to the original questions, Are guides hunt prices to high? hell yes its high, it should be zero. It should be illegal to charge for pig hunts. This state should get back on track with game management.

 

[7magHunter]

Cheaper by the dozen!
Buy one get one free!

Hey Rancho they can have it ship to you UPS ground!
I hope you like tamales!

http://austin.craigslist.org/grd/521418713.html

 

[7magHunter]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shot @ Jan 8 2008, 03:41 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Speckmisser @ Jan 8 2008, 06:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

7mag, I believe I've pointed this out before, but guided hunts and trespass fees aren't selling animals. They're selling hunting access and guide services. That's why you have to have a license to hunt there. The animals still belong to the State. If you want to hunt inside a fence for legally planted animals, no license is required.[/b]

Speckmisser, I respectively disagree with this statement. Let me explain why. All of the hunting operations I know charge for the number of pigs you take, whether its guided or not. I can't think of any place in Cali that charges a trespass fee and allows you to shoot as many pigs as you can. In fact its exact opposite, they charge you a set fee and tell you how many you can shoot (lets say 1 or 2) and if you shoot more than that you get charged. Now what are they charging you for? Obviously they are charging you for the animal (a non-native animal), because you already paid the trespass fee.

This is plainly the States fault. I can't blame DFG because they practically have no say in anything that involves money. How could the state allow this kind of behavior to continue when the DFG's ultimate goal is to restore California to is natural state (look at whats going on with the condors). In fact some states make it illegal to charge a guide or trespass fee for non-native animals (like pigs in Colorado, thats why they practically don't exist in that state).

Now back to the original questions, Are guides hunt prices to high? hell yes its high, it should be zero. It should be illegal to charge for pig hunts. This state should get back on track with game management.
[/b][/quote]

 

[upper]

You Sillies,your trespass fee has an expiration time.It stops when the landowner says it does.If he says it stops at two pigs then it does.And also to those who think that there would be more access with no fees your wrong.You got to pay them to put up with your A$$.If they did not get paid,they would just trap them or shoot at night to get rid of them.So you see, my take is if there is no money there is less access.Landowners don't need hunters to save them,Jeeeeessseeeeez! Upper

 

[Shot]

QUOTE (upper @ Jan 8 2008, 04:51 PM)

You Sillies,your trespass fee has an expiration time.It stops when the landowner says it does.If he says it stops at two pigs then it does.And also to those who think that there would be more access with no fees your wrong.You got to pay them to put up with your A$$.If they did not get paid,they would just trap them or shoot at night to get rid of them.So you see, my take is if there is no money there is less access.Landowners don't need hunters to save them,Jeeeeessseeeeez! Upper

Upper, please example Tejon's pig hunts to me. You pay a fee to hunt for a weekend and one pig. If you shoot a pig the first day you can remain on the property (trespass fee), but during your stay if you shot another pig you get charged. Maybe there is some legal loop hole here but everyone can clearly see whats being charged here.

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with people charging what they want for a hunt. Its a free market and I love it. I wouldn't want it any other way.

What bothers me is how pigs are managed like game animals in this state. This State might not have an official management plan for pigs but they have set it up where private property owners and guides are managing them on their land. A great example is what Chopper posted, about how he doesn't have more than 8 hunters at a time because in less than a month there will be no pigs on is property, that my friends is pig management. I don't blame Chopper for this, he makes an income off of it, and he is thinking business. You see what I'm saying, almost every property owner or guide thinks this way now, when they see pigs on their property running, they see big dollars signs. This is why I blame the State, they have made it into a business.

 

[bayedsolid]

This is not a very difficult topic to grasp and I think most of the arguing is over the fact that some want it cheap and don't want to take the time to think about the obvious. In a few situations, someone could make money with cheap hog hunts by charging tresspass fees, if they own the land and it is already a self-sustaining ranching operation where the hog hunts were just an added bonus. Otherwise, you could easily have to spend $20k+ to lease a decent ranch in the hog woods big enough, and set up enough, for a good guide operation. If it was just for personal use you might get it for a little less but for a ranch large enough to guide on there you are. You are going to have to sell 50 hog hunts at $400 each just to pay the lease and guys are saying that's way too much. Now double that number of hunts and you are taking 100 hunters in a year out to make $20k a year for yourself. Now deduct out fuel and all other expenses and you've not made a penny. Even if you owned the land and did all the guiding yourself without hiring any help and without paying the ranch a single cent, 50 hunts is only $20k!!! You've got to admit that AT LEAST half of that would be fuel and expenses, which leaves you less than $10k after 50 paid hunts!!! And you are going complain that it should be cheaper????? Unless you are selling top-end, fancy, 5-star hunting lodge hunts, there is no getting rich guiding. I don't even see a way to make a living at it unless you did it on a very large scale with high numbers of hunters consistantly coming through and even then you would probably just get by. Put yourself in the guide's shoes for two seconds and do the math.....it's not that complicated.

And as far as claiming the hogs are "The people's" so we shouldn't have to pay to hunt them, well let's just look at it like this. You have 8,500 acres full of hogs and wildlife in the beautiful hills near Hollister. Are any of you really going to say that you would just let every yahoo hunter come and go as they please because you don't own the hogs.... they are "the peoples" hogs? Give me a break. All you complainers would be the first one's locking the gate and posting new signs, or cashing the check from a guide who is charging $600 bucks a hog.

 

[Rancho Loco]

QUOTE (7magHunter @ Jan 8 2008, 04:29 PM) http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=951362

Cheaper by the dozen!
Buy one get one free!

Hey Rancho they can have it ship to you UPS ground!
I hope you like tamales!

http://austin.craigslist.org/grd/521418713.html

Uh - you know Austin is in texass, right?

 

[Rancho Loco]

Speck - I know you've done the math...But what chaps me is some person thinks a certain price pulled out of the thin air is fair, and calls bogus on all the rest, without even knowing the first thing about the costs involved in running a ranch and/or hunting operation.

We have a free market here. If 7mag thinks it's too expensive, he doesn't buy. If he thinks he can do it better and cheaper - he can give it a crack and let us know how it works.

I just can't believe some people think they're entitled to hunt pigs for next to free, just because they're plentiful.

 

[Rancho Loco]

7mag - read Bayed's post...Then read it again. Then read Chopper's. Then read it again.

Now do you understand?

 

[upper]

Another Quick picture.Jimmy leases hunting rights from landowner Ernie.Jimmy sells hunts for whatever he can get for them.He does not make bo cooos of money ,but enjoys the whole expierence.State passes law on how much,if any money one can charge to hunt pigs.Streets and bars fill with happy hunters.How can Jimmy take another hunter onto Ernies place?Now mind you there is going to be the lucky few that can now hunt Ernies place.If you are not one of them your S.O.L. on the Pig deal.You loose the State looses.And if the State puts any more regs against the depred deal (hogs only),there will be a suit to stop that.So if you really think about it,you are lucky there is a charge to hunt pigs on private land.Man I am starting to get this typing deal down!!!!Upper,out

 

[Rancho Loco]

I would like to add that I'm all for any legal way for ranchers here to make money.

I'm much happier seeing cattle on the Central California hillsides instead of tract homes.

I think deer and other wildlife would agree with me.

 

[7magHunter]

QUOTE (Shot @ Jan 8 2008, 05:11 PM)

You see what I'm saying, almost every property owner or guide thinks this way now, when they see pigs on their property running, they see big dollars signs. This is why I blame the State, they have made it into a business.

 

[Rancho Loco]

Read my post above.

 

[7magHunter]

QUOTE (Rancho Loco @ Jan 8 2008, 05:29 PM)

QUOTE (7magHunter @ Jan 8 2008, 04:29 PM)

Cheaper by the dozen!
Buy one get one free!

Hey Rancho they can have it ship to you UPS ground!
I hope you like tamales!

http://austin.craigslist.org/grd/521418713.html

Uh - you know Austin is in texass, right?
[/quote]

Yeah you're right, shipping fees will be too high.
Never mind.

 

[SacFireJT]

QUOTE (upper @ Jan 8 2008, 04:51 PM)

Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with people charging what they want for a hunt. Its a free market and I love it. I wouldn't want it any other way.

What bothers me is how pigs are managed like game animals in this state.

Um, dude, they are managed like game animals in this state because they are game animals! Pig hunting in California today is reportedly more popular than deer hunting.

I find it ironic that you are complaining about hogs being game animals when you have a motivation to hunt them. And, if you feel OK about people charging anything they want for a hog hunt, then why complain about the cost of a private land hog hunt?

 

[7magHunter]

Rancho ,
Do you own hunting land?
Just curious why do you enjoy and celebrate the high prices, is this in any way good for you?
If you're a land owner that makes a living with pig hunts it would make sense to me, but if you pay to hunt It wouldn't make sense, so why you like to get rip off?
Are you worry that lower prices can bring more hunters and then wouldn't be enough piggies for you next time?
Please explain?

 

[sidepass]

QUOTE (bayedsolid @ Jan 8 2008, 05:25 PM)

This is not a very difficult topic to grasp and I think most of the arguing is over the fact that some want it cheap and don't want to take the time to think about the obvious. In a few situations, someone could make money with cheap hog hunts by charging tresspass fees, if they own the land and it is already a self-sustaining ranching operation where the hog hunts were just an added bonus. Otherwise, you could easily have to spend $20k+ to lease a decent ranch in the hog woods big enough, and set up enough, for a good guide operation. If it was just for personal use you might get it for a little less but for a ranch large enough to guide on there you are. You are going to have to sell 50 hog hunts at $400 each just to pay the lease and guys are saying that's way too much. Now double that number of hunts and you are taking 100 hunters in a year out to make $20k a year for yourself. Now deduct out fuel and all other expenses and you've not made a penny. Even if you owned the land and did all the guiding yourself without hiring any help and without paying the ranch a single cent, 50 hunts is only $20k!!! You've got to admit that AT LEAST half of that would be fuel and expenses, which leaves you less than $10k after 50 paid hunts!!! And you are going complain that it should be cheaper????? Unless you are selling top-end, fancy, 5-star hunting lodge hunts, there is no getting rich guiding. I don't even see a way to make a living at it unless you did it on a very large scale with high numbers of hunters consistantly coming through and even then you would probably just get by. Put yourself in the guide's shoes for two seconds and do the math.....it's not that complicated.

And as far as claiming the hogs are "The people's" so we shouldn't have to pay to hunt them, well let's just look at it like this. You have 8,500 acres full of hogs and wildlife in the beautiful hills near Hollister. Are any of you really going to say that you would just let every yahoo hunter come and go as they please because you don't own the hogs.... they are "the peoples" hogs? Give me a break. All you complainers would be the first one's locking the gate and posting new signs, or cashing the check from a guide who is charging $600 bucks a hog.

Yes and you start putting to much pressure on the pigs because the lease can't support 4 hunts per month and those pigs move next door. That ranchers guide will charge $700 per hog. And so on .

sidepass

 

[oneshothunter]

lots of good points

 

[Rancho Loco]

QUOTE (7magHunter @ Jan 8 2008, 06:40 PM)http://index.php?act=findpost&pid=951413

Rancho ,
Do you own hunting land?
Just curious why do you enjoy and celebrate the high prices, is this in any way good for you?
If you're a land owner that makes a living with pig hunts it would make sense to me, but if you pay to hunt It wouldn't make sense, so why you like to get rip off?
Are you worry that lower prices can bring more hunters and then wouldn't be enough piggies for you next time?
Please explain?

Capitalism and Free Enterprise.

What's your solution?

 

[7magHunter]

QUOTE (Rancho Loco @ Jan 8 2008, 06:54 PM)

QUOTE (7magHunter @ Jan 8 2008, 06:40 PM)

Rancho ,
Do you own hunting land?
Just curious why do you enjoy and celebrate the high prices, is this in any way good for you?
If you're a land owner that makes a living with pig hunts it would make sense to me, but if you pay to hunt It wouldn't make sense, so why you like to get rip off?
Are you worry that lower prices can bring more hunters and then wouldn't be enough piggies for you next time?
Please explain?

Capitalism and Free Enterprise.

What's your solution?
[/quote]
I asked first!