spectr17

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Is it time to start dealing with mountain lion threat?

Joel Hood -- Modesto Bee

December 18, 2002

They are the ghosts of California's wilderness. Mountain lions seemingly come and go without recognition, moving silently through the brush in search of food. Most casual hunters and day hikers go years between sightings, and even then it may be for only a moment.

But as humans continue to encroach on the mountain lion's habitat, the threat of confrontation increases.

A Turlock resident found that out in November while hunting in the Diablo Range foothills in Stanislaus County.

Russell Souza, 35, sustained a claw wound on his left elbow and scratches on his chest and shoulder before freeing himself. Souza then shot and killed the animal before turning it over to Department of Fish and Game officials.

Because Souza was acting in self-defense, the DFG did not charge him with poaching. But it's illegal to kill a mountain lion in almost every other circumstance in California, a law that makes some uneasy and others frustrated.

Attacks on humans are rare, but DFG research suggests they are on the rise, prompting some to question whether California should continue its blanket protection of the state's top predator.

"Like any resource, you have to manage it," Modesto hunting outfitter Craig Hueter said. "The way it's going is a bad deal. And it's only going to get worse unless something is done about it."

There always has been a romanticism associated with the mountain lion, largely because of its stealth.

But it hasn't always been protected. Between 1900 and 1969, a period when mountain lions were actively hunted for bounty, records indicate there were fewer than 3,000 living in the wild.

In 1972, a statewide moratorium was placed on sport hunting of mountain lions to increase their numbers. It worked, and by 1988 there were an estimated 4,000 to 6,000 roaming California's foothills.

The increase, experts say, was directly related to the mountain lion's protected status. But in 1990, California voters took it a step further and passed Proposition 117, a law that designated the mountain lion as a "specially protected mammal," the only species in the state to receive that label.

Lynn Sadler -- the executive director of the Mountain Lion Foundation, an offshoot of the organization that drafted Prop. 117 -- said the initiative was designed to protect the mountain lion's status as the top predator in the wild.

"It's the keystone of the ecosystem," Sadler said. "Mountain lions do a good job of regulating their own population levels. But because (the DFG) has never really known what the levels are, combined with the fact that 100 percent of mountain lion hunting was for sport, there was a belief among voters that it needed protection."

But Prop. 117 meant that mountain lions were afforded the same protection given to threatened or endangered species. And in addition to prohibiting lion killing unless they threatened livestock, pets or humans, the law removed the DFG's power to control the population.

Previously, the DFG could kill mountain lions to reduce the threat to sheep or deer, to keep resources plentiful or to limit contact with humans.

"The mountain lion can no longer be managed," wildlife biologist Holman King said. "All we can do is abide by the proposition, which is completely reactionary. We cannot take preventative measures when it comes to mountain lions.

"It's strictly about politics. It's no longer under the constraints of biological law."

According to the DFG, there have been seven mountain lion attacks since 1992, not including Souza's incident in November.

Pam Swift, the DFG veterinarian who examined the lion that attacked Souza, determined the animal was significantly underweight and probably attacked out of starvation. The absence of fat deposits, Swift said, indicated the lion failed at getting food for months.

Swift's findings speak to the larger question of whether mountain lions in some regions have exhausted their resources and what effect that might have on the unfortunate person who wanders past them.

Most western states -- including Montana, Nevada and Colorado -- allow mountain lion hunting. Their respective fish and game departments regulate the hunts as they would deer, waterfowl or big game. That is why those states have been able to maintain their lion populations, said Chris Healy, public information officer with the Nevada Division of Wildlife.

"We estimate there are about 4,000 mountain lions (in Nevada), and that number has stayed about the same even though we've always been allowed to hunt them," Healy said. "What we have discovered is that during the fall when yearlings are born, there is a substantial increase in lions in that area. What happens then is that they will take each other on.

"If not for the harvest program we have, there is no question they would be more aggressive and more dangerous."

Hueter said it's time to do what's best for hunters and mountain lions.

"The problem is that in California their habitat is slowly disappearing," Hueter said. "The number of lions is going up while their acres are going down. Something has to be done to protect them and us. So many of those who voted (for Prop. 117) live in the city and never see mountains lions.

"They don't understand the threat."
 

doghouse95

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What do people know about Mountain Lions? I would say that the people in the cities
know less, but even the folks that live in the smaller towns don't have that much
experience with lions.
I have spent a good part of my life traipsing around Northern California's back country on
a horse accompanied by a heard of dogs. Between the dogs and my horses, they have
always managed to let me know what is around, and have kept me out of most of the
trouble. For many years, this is how I made my living, I rode 5 to 6 days every week.
Having said that, my Lion savvy was not the best.
A few years ago I got hooked up with an old guy in his mid 70's. He had been trapping
for a living for about 60 years. I had the time , and he liked to talk and tell his stories. I
figured out quickly that his stories were true, and he did know lions.
Over the next few weeks, he demonstrated his tricks of the trade to me. We did not kill or
trap any lions in this adventure, but we saw at least one lion every day in an area that I had
seen maybe a dozen in the past 20 years.
The main fantasy that the public has about lions that really upsets me is that we always
hear how the lions kill the weak and the sick and are actually helping the deer heard.
This is B S.
Cats like to eat fresh meat, and bears feed on ripe meat. Certain birds like fresh meat, and
others like ripe meat. So by watching the birds, and where they gather we were able to
find fresh cat kills almost every day. During the rut, what we found surprised the hell out
of me.
The cats were killing the biggest bucks on the mountain. The best genes in the deer heard
was turning into kitty food. We found the proof of this over and over again. At first it
shocked and didn't make sense at all. My old friend explained to me that my logic was
way off, that these huge bucks were killed while at the high point of their rut. At that
time, they would take on and fight anything on the mountain, and that they almost always
lost to the lions.
The second B S point I would like to bring up, Conventional wisdom tells us that each big
cat kills one to two deer a week for food. This is absolutely wrong. After a cat kills, he
feeds and then scrapes up dirt rocks and sticks over the remainder of the deer. After
about 24 hours the meat turns ripe, and starts ringing the dinner bell for bears and
buzzards. Both bears and buzzards scavenge for food, and both are led by their nose.
They will finish off the cat kill in one setting. So 24 hours later the cat has to kill again..
I learned more from this old guy about the bears, fox, coyotes, cats and birds, in a few
days than I had learned in the first 40 years of my life.
The politicians in San Diego have not got the slightest clue as to what Cat Reality is, how
they interact in the wild, or even how many of them that are really out there.
They know nothing, but they do have the votes to support their fantasies.
 

DKScott

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As I recall, that proposition (117) carried in only 2 of California's 58 counties. Guess which ones. It says a lot about where the political power lies in this state.

That stupid law was passed in 1972 - the same year as the Coastal Commission was formed, "Silent Spring" was required reading in just about every high school "The Population Bomb" was a best seller and we were being told that the world would be out of oil by 1992. The eco-hysterics were in full swing. Sadly, I don't think the outcome would be any different if the same vote were held today.

The campaign for the measure manufactured a lot of hysteria that MLs were endangered because nobody ever saw them (a classic bit of false logic). They have never been endangered in this state. I have had several deer seasons where I didn't see a deer because of obvious ML predation. Most of those people have only seen mountain lions in Nat'l Geographic or cartoons. There should be a civics/current events/IQ test before you can vote.

Scott
 

Grizzledbastard

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Doghouse, I got sad when I saw that I reached the end of your post. I want more. More knowledge. More truth. More of your writing.

So, perhaps I should fire a few questions at you:

What type of birds go for FRESH meat vs. ripe? (buzzards, right? - they were watching my buck in 2 seconds last week)

Also -if a buck is crazy enough to fight a lion - would he also be crazy enough to stand up to a human? (talk about being able to get in close!)

Anything else you could tell us about bears, cats - staying SAFE out there among them, would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you, already, for that awesome post.
 

doghouse95

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Grizzled..
Magpies and cats like fresh meat. Buzzards and bears like ripe meat.
Yep, a big dominant buck that is on a fresh doe will give a person a bad time. I watched
one big old buck stand off two hounds for 15 minutes. He backed up into the brush and
stood his ground. When we went in to haul them out, he didn't move, just snorted and
rattled the brush with his horns. It was really kind of spooky.
I thought I would see a lot of coyotes in this area, nope, very few. It seems where there
are lots of big cats you will find very few yotes. When there is a larger cat population it
changes many things.
There won't be Turkeys.
There won't be wild pigs.
The coyotes can't compete and will go elsewhere.
There will be the smaller varmints like bobcats and fox. They live in under the
brush, and hunt different things than the big cats do.
There will be exceptions to these patterns, but these things generally hold true.
We were able to bait the bears and buzzards whenever we wanted to. Two or three rattle snakes, dead, in a gallon glass jar on the cabin roof just kind of melt after two months. I can't even begin to tell you how potent that smell is. Dip in a little hunk of lambs wool, spike it down in the dirt, sift some find dust over it, and it will bring in some critters. A word of caution, don't get any of it on you, it rates right up there with fresh skunk.
All of the old timers had to figure out how to make the things they had around them work for them. They never had much money, and it was a long way to town.
 

snoopdogg

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Doghouse, really liked your input and your sharing of knowledge.
 

RIFLEMAN

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I have been privvy to a few studies in Ca with the use of hounds and can confirm much of doghouse95's assertions. Biologists have never thought that lions kill the young, weak or old. They are not opportunist hunters like wolves; they are much more efficient predators.

Bucks are the primary base for most mountain lion kills. Biologists surmise that it is because:
*Bucks are more likely to be alone. As such, they have only two eyes looking out for predators.
*Bucks are more likely to travel further distances. As such, they put themselves at greater risk of contact with lions.
*Bucks are more likely to live in remote areas. As such, there is no human presence that would deter lions.

The studies indicate that a lion kills approximately every 4.5 days. This average varies according to habitat, climate and other factors such as competitive predation. Lions in the coastal range kill more frequently than do lions in the Sierras.

---RIFLEMAN
 

doghouse95

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I can understand the information on the bucks being alone, and in some remote locations.
The kills we located and watched were while the bucks were in rut, but I have no doubt
that this other data applies as well.
Grizzled,
Bears don't bother me at all, as long as they are not garbage bears. A wild black bear will
be gone as soon as he knows you are on the same mountain. They are really big chickens.
As with any animal, you don't want to push a mother with her young. A garbage bear just
isn't scared of people at all. It is easy to recognize the difference. Park/garbage bears are
much more likely to cause problems that a wild bear. I think of them as two different
animals.
Cats are cats, most of the time you will never know they are there. When they attack they
will attack from behind. NEVER run from a big cat, that triggers an attack signal that is
instinctual.
I have run around the remote areas of the northern Sierra Nevada's, the southern
Cascades, and the west side mountain ranges most of my life. I'm much more comfortable
miles from the nearest road or person than I am in downtown, "any city." I almost always
set things up in my favor. I carry a magnum revolver, and I almost always have extra
eyes, ears and noses with me.
I usually have at least one of my dogs with me when I'm in the mountains, usually a border
collie. I have been training and working dogs all my life, stock dogs, military working
dogs, bomb dogs, tracking dogs, and nark dogs. I'm always watching my dog, and
believing the dog as well. Dogs and horses do not lie. If they show you that something is
there, believe them. You may not see what it is, or smell what's there, but they can.
I have found that the biggest mistake that people make with dogs is that they tend not to
believe them. If you don't go with what your dog tells you, pretty quick, he will stop
showing you anything. It's hard to trust an animal when you can't see what they know is
there. Without an experienced dog and or horse, I'd bet I don't see 25% of what I do with
them.
I guess this is an around about way of saying that watching my dogs and horses keeps me
out of trouble I'm too stupid to see or realize on my own. It?s kept me alive and healthy
this long....
 

Greg

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For the past year or so, we have lost about a 1/2 dozen dogs in the town of Bridgeport, CA. These were all done by Mt. Lions. The cat was taken by a frustrated local and we did'nt here to many complaints about it. Since then I have seen two more cats in my yard on monthly basis. If I'm seeing that many sitings and cats you just know that there's got to be a lot more in the surrounding area. I'm afraid to let my dog out at night, even to go to the bathroom sometimes. If the DFG has any doubts of there being limited amounts of cats, I'd like to invite them up in my neck of the woods.
 

cincoflatspirate

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An anonymus
<
wise old man once told me "Ifn a lion get's gutshot he ill run off and die never to be found". He also told me "If you hunt with a bow carry one different arrow in your quiver in case he does".
 

doghouse95

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There is truth to the last two posts.
I'm ranch raised, and I know both are practiced on a regular basis. The hound hunters
prefer a couple .22 between the ribs into the lounges.
 

MrRee

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Lions

I just found out why lion males are so slim & trim. They let the females do all the work and -->
THEY HAVE SEX ABOUT EVERY 20 MIN!!!!

I think I will try that, I could stand to lose a little weight :))
 

mouthcallinmatt1

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doghouse95, I wish I had half your knowledge of the outdoors. It sounds like you've had quite an exciting/interesting life. Thanks for all the great info and I'm looking forward to your future posts.

If you get to a point in your life where it is too hard for you to get on your horse and get away from it all you should consider writing a book. I'm sure you have lots of interesting stories to pass along.
 

doghouse95

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My dad died at 74, we were riding and hunting the week before he died. I hope I'm that
lucky.
I have been blessed with a lifestyle that gave me the time and opportunity to spend most of
my time outside.
My wife, and my children love to go with me, so that makes it easy too.
There is a lot I don't know, and a lot of places I haven't seen yet. After all of these years, I
still get excited about going riding in the mountains, especially if it's into new country.
I avoid big cities, they scare the hell out of me.
I feel blind and helpless without my dogs and other accessories.
We all know different things, and they are all important.
 

sportyg

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Doghouse95,

Thanks for the post. I learn more reading this then I dreamed of knowing about lions..
 
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