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Shane
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You mean, "for this draw length, at this poundage, with this cam duration, you should be using a 480 grain, 28", XX78 in 2413......" ?
That's a tough one. The arrow manufacturers do offer generic arrow selection charts for this. I see them in archery pro shops and such. Might check Easton and others.
The single most important thing I've gotten from the above method, is an easy way for convincing shooters how much more important velocity is in generating energy. This speaks to the many times an archer will hear his buddies rave about the huge log arrows and 145 grn heads they use that will punch through an elk, vs. the little "wussy" arrows another guy might use that are only good for rabbit hunting...
For grins --
Buddy shoots: 700grn arrow @ 235FPS = 85.859 Kinetic
You shoot: 550grn arrow @ 280FPS = 95.771 Kinetic
I think these were fairly realistic. But it just shows the difference. Now obviously, if Buddy can shoot his 700grn arrows at 280FPS, he has the goods! But he is also using archery equipment I don't know about. Adding the weight reduces speed. Which reminds me, I need to lay off the Valentine candy
It's a speed/weight balancing act. You do want to shoot a heavy arrow fast. But not a heavy arrow at the expense of speed. plus you enjoy the additional benefits of flatter trajectory, less time to target, fewer sight pins (depending on personal setup), larger margins for error due to misjudged yardage, etc.
Anyway, not to preach. Just wanted to throw that out there. The same goes for the rifle guys.
"Speed Kills" -===-------------->
That's a tough one. The arrow manufacturers do offer generic arrow selection charts for this. I see them in archery pro shops and such. Might check Easton and others.
The single most important thing I've gotten from the above method, is an easy way for convincing shooters how much more important velocity is in generating energy. This speaks to the many times an archer will hear his buddies rave about the huge log arrows and 145 grn heads they use that will punch through an elk, vs. the little "wussy" arrows another guy might use that are only good for rabbit hunting...
For grins --
Buddy shoots: 700grn arrow @ 235FPS = 85.859 Kinetic
You shoot: 550grn arrow @ 280FPS = 95.771 Kinetic
I think these were fairly realistic. But it just shows the difference. Now obviously, if Buddy can shoot his 700grn arrows at 280FPS, he has the goods! But he is also using archery equipment I don't know about. Adding the weight reduces speed. Which reminds me, I need to lay off the Valentine candy
It's a speed/weight balancing act. You do want to shoot a heavy arrow fast. But not a heavy arrow at the expense of speed. plus you enjoy the additional benefits of flatter trajectory, less time to target, fewer sight pins (depending on personal setup), larger margins for error due to misjudged yardage, etc.
Anyway, not to preach. Just wanted to throw that out there. The same goes for the rifle guys.
"Speed Kills" -===-------------->
Here is what I have. I shoot Beman ICS Hunter 400's cut to 28.5" at 253fps with 125gr field points. I come out with 56.6 Kinetic. I know that they have completely passed through deer with Muzzy 3blades out to 35 yards. Is this equation incorrect or is this enough to satisfy the experts.
Shane
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What is your accurate total weight? Just punching in 500 grains (which I would think you are at least there) you are in the 61+ range.
When you say ideal, there lies the ambiguity of the whole deal. Ideal is first and formost, the minimum your state law requires for hunting with archery equipment, and the self-imposed moral obligation to shoot at least enough to do the job.
As you are aware of, you can mount a razor sharp head on an arrow and shoot it from a child's 25 lb bow and pass through a deer - as long as it doesn't encounter bone on its way through. But, hit a shoulder bone and you've just wounded your deer.
This is why you will find it difficult to find that type of data. Far too many possible scenarios.
Personally, I am not as concerned with the kinetic numbers as I am about overall accuracy and arrow flight characteristics. I know that if I can kick it out there in a fairly straight line, the kinetic will be adiquate. And, if you've ever had to thread an arrow through brush, you'll know that knowing HOW your arrow flies is important - when knowing what the angle of the arrow will be as it passes through a fork in a branch...
235 X 235 ÷ 450240 X ?????? <your arrow + broadhead weight here
Off the top of my head, you are shooting a good sized arrow/head cobo at a decent speed.
When you say ideal, there lies the ambiguity of the whole deal. Ideal is first and formost, the minimum your state law requires for hunting with archery equipment, and the self-imposed moral obligation to shoot at least enough to do the job.
As you are aware of, you can mount a razor sharp head on an arrow and shoot it from a child's 25 lb bow and pass through a deer - as long as it doesn't encounter bone on its way through. But, hit a shoulder bone and you've just wounded your deer.
This is why you will find it difficult to find that type of data. Far too many possible scenarios.
Personally, I am not as concerned with the kinetic numbers as I am about overall accuracy and arrow flight characteristics. I know that if I can kick it out there in a fairly straight line, the kinetic will be adiquate. And, if you've ever had to thread an arrow through brush, you'll know that knowing HOW your arrow flies is important - when knowing what the angle of the arrow will be as it passes through a fork in a branch...
235 X 235 ÷ 450240 X ?????? <your arrow + broadhead weight here
Off the top of my head, you are shooting a good sized arrow/head cobo at a decent speed.
Shane
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What might be interesting is similar to the clay tests firearms and ammo manufacturers use to show effective traits in specific loads and calibers.
1) Shoot one arrow/broadhead combination from different speed sources. Should show advantages of KE.
2) Shoot different broadheads and the same arrow from the same speed source - to see the measurable penetration differences between broadhead types
Hmmm....
1) Shoot one arrow/broadhead combination from different speed sources. Should show advantages of KE.
2) Shoot different broadheads and the same arrow from the same speed source - to see the measurable penetration differences between broadhead types
Hmmm....
Thanks for the info Shane. I like my current set-up and have had some success with it. I actually shot clean through both shoulders on a doe at 32 yards early last season without damaging the arrow at all. Unfortunately I missed the lungs by a hair and the coyotes got her before I did. I hate when that happens. Dropped a couple more through the rest of the season with no problem.
B
brian bearden
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i am shooting a mathews fx with 27" acc's and an 85gr. thunderhead. moving at 272fps it produces right at 65# of KE. do you think that is enough for animals up to the size of elk and blackbear? it's plenty for whitetails as i witnessed several times.
Shane
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brian - my opinion would be that you should be fine shooting that setup. Just keep in mind, 95 lb. ft. of kinetic won't punch through an elks shoulder blade. So, placement is always the priority.
As well, use broadheads that slip easily through hair and hide. Shooting heads that produce a lot of surface tension (like most mechanical heads) really chew up velocity. The blades are wide and the tip is usually a chisel design which are a bit more difficult to push through thick hair and hide. Thuderheads and the two blade designs like Patriot and Zwickey will slip through with wicked ease. Allowing more bang for your kinetic.
And, in more practical terms, if folks are using traditional bows (recurves, longbows) to take most of the worlds big game, and they are lucky to produce 55 lb. ft. of kinetic, then you are still in the clear.
Best
As well, use broadheads that slip easily through hair and hide. Shooting heads that produce a lot of surface tension (like most mechanical heads) really chew up velocity. The blades are wide and the tip is usually a chisel design which are a bit more difficult to push through thick hair and hide. Thuderheads and the two blade designs like Patriot and Zwickey will slip through with wicked ease. Allowing more bang for your kinetic.
And, in more practical terms, if folks are using traditional bows (recurves, longbows) to take most of the worlds big game, and they are lucky to produce 55 lb. ft. of kinetic, then you are still in the clear.
Best
Drayton
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This coming bow season I'll be shooting a Jennings Buckmaster light single cam bow at 65lb with 28" draw. 29" Easton xx75 2315 (for now) with ??? broadheads ( my thunderhead 85's may be too light)
I'm looking to get new arrows and broadheads really soon. Any suggestions as to optimum arrows and broadheads for this setup?
This forum has been the most valuable resource for hunting info! Thanks,
Drayton
I'm looking to get new arrows and broadheads really soon. Any suggestions as to optimum arrows and broadheads for this setup?
This forum has been the most valuable resource for hunting info! Thanks,
Drayton
Shane
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Drayton - there is lots of good product out there. There is nothing wrong with your arrow and broadhead selection. The XX75 and 78 shafts are great. The 78s tend to be more riged (brittle) and more expensive. The 75s are just fine. Shoot what gets you the performance you can achieve with your bow setup. It might be a 2412 or a 2315.... I don't know your bow.
As for the broadheads. It sounds like you may be too light of a head for your setup. See how it paper tunes with different weight field points. You'll tend to see more "porposing" (up and down variation) with weight changes. Then try a couple broadheads in the ideal weight you find - run them through the paper as well. I have found the Thunderhead family to be as good as it gets for today's archer. I shoot TH 100s and 125s, mostly. Very sharp and low drag - with the thin ferral and skinny tip. I get a chill just puting them in the quiver....
Best
As for the broadheads. It sounds like you may be too light of a head for your setup. See how it paper tunes with different weight field points. You'll tend to see more "porposing" (up and down variation) with weight changes. Then try a couple broadheads in the ideal weight you find - run them through the paper as well. I have found the Thunderhead family to be as good as it gets for today's archer. I shoot TH 100s and 125s, mostly. Very sharp and low drag - with the thin ferral and skinny tip. I get a chill just puting them in the quiver....
Best
Nobuckkev,
I shoot a ICS hunter 27.5" that weighs 280gr., then the 100 gr. Spitfire pushes me to the 380 gr. mark, my bow shoots this combo at 272fps with give about 62.44 KE, my last bow shot about the same. I've read on asiote that 40 lbs of KE is plenty for whitetails. I'm getting pass through with mechanicals on deer every kill, 8 kills with that combo.
I shoot a ICS hunter 27.5" that weighs 280gr., then the 100 gr. Spitfire pushes me to the 380 gr. mark, my bow shoots this combo at 272fps with give about 62.44 KE, my last bow shot about the same. I've read on asiote that 40 lbs of KE is plenty for whitetails. I'm getting pass through with mechanicals on deer every kill, 8 kills with that combo.
Oregon Archer
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http://www.bowjackson.com has a great KE calculator on their site. it will calculate you KE as well as tell you what you speed and KE would be down range in 10yr increments. Its accurate and easy to do. Just need to know your arrow weight and speed and a couple of other figures.
