lake sonoma

[freezer]

A dog on a hog scent is impossible to control. While the houndsmen enjoy a much higher success rate, so it is they bare all responsibility for where their dogs roam. If a dog/dogs chase a hog onto my ranch, the dog owner is paying a fee to get his dog back. The fee covers my time/effort to catch his dog, loss of my day in the field, disturbence/disbursment of game on my property.

The guy that shot that dog should go to jail, no excuse for that.

Guys I really don't mean to stir the pot too much but this guy got my goat. To me he justifies his dog leaving his property but dog let your dog enter his.... I have never and never would suggest violance nor breaking the law. I suggested using a cell phone and getting a warden out there. I also advocate wearing our license on our back like they do in other states. I'd like to see visable tags on dogs too. That way I can ID the people not following the rules.

Hikers are a fact of life out there, anti hunters harassing hunters are sometnig else again. Letting your dog run uncontrolled is another thing. As questioned in the origional post, Who are they and why is their dog running through the area like this? Is it legal to let your dog run unchecked on LS.

As others have mentioned the archer in question was not interviewed. If a dog comes running at you barking what would you think? What would you do?

A few years ago I was in the woods deer hunting. I had left the cabin 5 hour eariler and was 2.5 miles from it in the woods on a steep point. There are a lot of bear where I hunt. As I sat there I heard something comming at me on the other side of the point and it didn't sound like a deer. This was very bad because I was on the ground and the longest shot was thirtyfive yards in brush. I was nervous and I raised my rifle. As the noise got closer I shouldered it and peered into the brush. Then I cought movement and it was brown (not good)! It came closer and I saw it wasn't a bear but a dog. I thought OK I'm still not out of trouble...is this a wild dog...does this dog belong to another hunter...is this dog going to attack me... I raised my rifle and watched cautiously....I was really nervous now! The it came at me wagging it's tail and was happy to see me....It was my dog! She had gotten out of the cabin and tracked me down.

It really made me think! If something had happened to her it would have really broken me up but even though my brother in law let her out she is my responsability and I must be in control of my dog at all times. If I'm not...my problem.

I feel bad for the guide who lost his dog. Nobody knows if an archer shot into a pile or if he felt threatened. You just don't know.

Long and short we should patrol our own ranks, call the warden! Help him do his job. Harassing hunters is also against the law and warents a violation, call the warden! You can bet your last dollar if I get harassed in the woods I'll call one! I have in the past! No problem. I obey the laws and accept what comes if I screw up.

I love my dog and she's a family member living in my house and is very friendly but if I loose control of her... I don't know you, you don't know her, there might be a trajedy and it will be my fault because you didn't know she a good girl and I didn't have control.

 

[hoytrdye]

anyone know the bowhunter who's involved in the incident?

 

[Mel Carter]

From what I heard, the guide ventured on the LS property with out the client, and only to retrieve his dog. He seen the group of guys, and THEY started telling him to get the hell out of there, this is our hog. The guide told them I don't care keep the hog, I just want the dog. The guide started back up the hill towards the client and when he got there, he noticed the dog bleeding and figured out what had happened. The dog died on the way to the vet. These dogs are not pit bulls or anything like that and are not aggressive unless you smell like a pig, so I doubt the archer felt threatened.

This is how I heard it from another person who has spoke to the guide. I have yet to speak to the guide about this and probably won't. If it went down the way this guy told me, and the guide went to get his dog with out the client, then I think he did the right thing. Shooting the dog even by accident was inexcusable.

 

[GSP Dad]

I'm not some hog hunting guru. But what about common sense. As for the self defense thing...seriously??? A dog, hot on the trail of a pig stops chasing the pig and decides to go after some guy with a bow. Sounds ridiculous to me. If you have seen a dog hunt I think you know this is far fetched, those dogs would be extremely focused. I can see the point that the dogs crossed a boundary, but does that mean that the archer can be irresponsible with a weapon! Make no mistakes we are all responsible for where our projectiles end up. If you don't have the steadiness and self control to not shoot when you are not positive of where a miss will go, then I think you should quit hunting. You only make us all look bad. As for the dogs, well they should be better controlled but hunting requires the dogs to run. There are e-collars but you wouldn't use it unless you were sure they were out of a boundary. Either way defending a hunter who is not responsible for his projectiles, looks poorly on us all. A mistake is a mistake but when the mistake involves the use of a deadly weapon there is no excuses to go with the mistake.

 

[sancho]

there isnt a pig in the world worth shooting a dog for. i've run with dogs to see what it was like. it isnt for me, but no denying it..it is exciting!

i dont know what happened..but the archer broke a fundamental rule. he launched a projectile without being sure of his target. i wont fire an arrow at an animal if another of the same animal is in the way or behind! i have had to let turkey go, because those stupid birds wouldnt separate enough to give me a clear shot at either one.. no way, i shoot in the vicinity of a dog..wearing a vest.

i would have watched the action..and waited for the free pig. heheh.

 

[freezer]

Look at the original post! Is running a dog uncontroled legal on LS? Last time I checked it's not. Never justified a poor shot or unethical behavior. Never saw a dog on a pig. Had dogs come at me before. Had to pull a gun in self-defence on people before. Never shot either dog or fool. I do like the posts, I heard from a friend who heard from a friend who talked to the guide.

Let me ask my question a little differently. If you see someone running their dog through the brush at LS what should you do? If your harassed while hunting by a person or dog what should you do?

Self defence...Seriously! You ever been bit? I have. I got scars on my face to prove it! I don't trust your dog and don't expect you to trust mine!

Illegal is not a sick bird!

By the way I've hunted LS the last two years but haven't had the chance this year.

I'm with you Sancho!

 

[MikenSoCo]

How 'bout as a guide, keeping your dogs away from the property line if you've got thousands of acres to hunt?

 

[GSP Dad]

Interesting freezer. Pulled a gun on someone in self defense. Are you a cop? I have a ccw, i was told by the sheriffs who issued it to me that if you pull a weapon on someone, you better have no choice but to use it. Meaning if you dont use it, it should never have been pulled in the first place. Just a side note, my point is that making a mistake with a deadly weapon is a far worse act then your dogs accidentally crossing a line onto public land. Public!! Im not saying people should let there dogs do whatever, but dogs have been used for hunting for ages. They are fellow hunters, we should all have more respect for each other. But in my book it should never be acceptable to have an unintended death!

 

[BADBuckfever]

We still dont know exactly what happened here except that these dogs were chasing a pig and ended up on land they shouldnt have been on. Maybe the archer tried to shoot the pig and the dog got in the way at the last second. We DONT KNOW! Speculation is sketchy at best.

I know I would be hard pressed to shoot a pig in those conditions, but we were not there.

 

[freezer]

GSP dad, your great at jumpimg to conclusions. The fools decided not to enter my house when they saw the gun. Had they entered I would have killed them on the spot. I thank God I didn't have to. I had already called the cops and when they arrived they said I should have shot them both times. Thou shalt not kill stops at the threshold, they didn't cross!

Just for grins I looked up Apple Valley, just what I thought LOL. Look up Richmond, then look up crime reports. I live just outside the Iron Triangle. Now, look up the laws governing CCW in Calif. I'll give you a hint: It's a MAY issue state, not a Shall issue state. In other words if you live some place where you don't need it you'll get it. Try to get one in the SF Bay Area. Turn off the tourch.

I'm amazed some folks missed my point. CALL A GAME WARDEN! They get paid to sort this stuff out and deal with the fools who don't respect the law, hunter and non hunter! If someone is running their dog illegally wardens want to know. If it's a guide the warden will know them, what kind of guide they are and how to deal with the situation. If this a freqent problem the warden will deal with it but only if it's reported. The wardens can't help us if we don't help them.

As for respect? Respect is earned, not given! I will give a stranger courtisy and an opertunity do gain my respect.

 

[GSP Dad]

I'm just not a big fan of those who have done it all, seen it all. Your opinion is a fine one, call the game warden. I am just not into self righteousness is all. The idea that the guy running the dogs is purposefully and willfully breaking the law just because you don't like that it interferes with your life. The guy with the dogs must be criminal. I suppose that none of us have made a similar mistake, exceeded the speed limit cause you weren't paying attention perhaps. My point is we shouldn't be so quick to condemn. But if you are going to condemn, condemn the idea that we as hunters are not responsible for our projectiles. If the archer meant to hit the dog then that is another matter and I guess he should have called the warden or police and explained why he did so. But to assume that the dog handler purposely sent the dogs across a boundary seems like a stretch. We have all made mistakes but unintentionally killing is not one that any hunter should make excuses for. It damages the whole sport! I assume that you know more about brandishing a weapon than I would because of where you live. All I was attempting to point out is that just because you have done something doesn't mean it was right or lawful. I wasn't passing judgement on your situation. I suppose that they just give anyone ccw's, as long as you don't need it. Maybe just a little empathy for our fellow hunter who lost his dog is all I am preaching.

 

[GSP Dad]

I meant respect in the sense of consideration for others. It is one of the definitions of respect, as I am sure you will look it up in an attempt to belittle me. I won't post on this topic anymore mr. Freezer so no need to become angry at my disagreeing with you.

 

[freezer]

:rant-mode: Never ass/u/me you know some one :yawn:

 

[hoytrdye]

So we have one side of the story and its second hand--so the one who only knows what went down IS the bowhunter and even then its his side---- like we all know somewhere in between each persons involved is the truth!

 

[juantg]

what mel said is what i heard.i was told he heard the dogs fighting with a pig and heard one dog make a weird noise and when he got there one guy wasn't trying to look at him and the other guy was yelling at him for his dogs being down there and he asked if they shot the dog while it had a hold of the pig and they said no and just kept talking crap. he told them they could have hurt one of his dogs so he started to check the dogs for any wounds and one dog had a little hole and though it could have been a pigs tooth or something so he got his dog and left when he was hiking out the dog fell and started to bleed a lot and he carried the dog out and the dog died on the way to the vet and they found a broad head broken off in the dog.those guys r dirtbags they knew they shot his dog and didn't even try to help the dog or tell him they did so he can try to help his dog.

 

[Fugaloo]

I talked to the guide personally. It was one dog wearing a tracking collar. He had a single arrow wound. The guide and his assistant went over the border to retrieve the dog. On the way back they noticed bleeding and shortly thereafter the dog was dead.

Bottom line: Negligent or irresponsible discharge. Either the arrow went through the pig and into the dog or the arrow stuck out of the pig and in the skirmish the dog took a stab from the "armed" pig. No matter what way you look at it the arrow should never have flown. And to top thing off the hunter should at the very least have notified the guide of the possibility that the dog was hurt. My dog whines when I pinch him, I know a dog would make a sound from a mortal arrow sticking.

 

[juantg]

ya i think you r right it was one dog. i'm bad

 

[Mel Carter]

For anyone who knows "the guide" knows he is as strait as they come and will NOT jeopardize his business and lively hood just to get a client a hog. If anyone is thinking that's what happened, then you do not know this man. His dog went over boundaries, he went do get his dog with out the client, that's it. The hunter should of never taken the shot period! I think by now most of us on this topic know who we are talking about. I know there are guides out there that do this kind of thing purposely, but this man will never ever break laws for nobody. There are many people on this site who have hunted with him before, and knows what type of person he is. I don't want people making false accusations towards him based on this situation. As mentioned earlier, a dog on a hot track can travel a long ways and may be hard to control once out of range. Call the cops call wild justice, I dont care, base you comments on facts not assumptions. This guide has given us a great time on the group hunts at a great price, I would hate to have this thread have him turn his nose up to JHO.

 

[hoytrdye]

BTW i'm on my side! I'm not trying to get anyones hackles up, but i'm pretty sure it sounds like everyone is still assuming, since theres no more good that can come from this, i would recommend a moderator deleting this thread all together cause i feel like this is the kind of ammo the anti-hunters like to have on hand to use against us or to break us apart-- btw to the guy or guys who drink iced starbucks drinks you can bring those back home with you!!!!!!!!!

 

[500+grns]

Another senerio,
Archer shoots hog,dog wounds himself on the arrow sticking out of the pig,dog bleeds to death.Happens all the time.
Was someone there to witness the archer shoot into a pack of dogs?
Archer fled seen in fear of Guides w/guns approaching.
If the guide encroaches LS property to recover his hounds,he must to be unarmed.Otherwise he is a poacher.