Poor Hunter behavior at Lake Sonoma.

[Rangerjoel]

Poor Hunter behavior at Lake Sonoma<st1><st1></st1></st1>

Alright guys I wanted to fill you in on some of the hunter issues that we have been having out here at the park.
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No Hunting on the black mountain side of warm springs.
Our neighbors have been coming in and complaining about seeing folks hunting over there and I have already cited two guys for hunting over there.
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Respect the park boundary above Loggers camp.
Our neighbor up the hill had his game camera stolen from is property and the only access is from Loggers camp.
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Your permits are for pig hunting.
You may not hunt anything else. I’ve got guys bragging about shooting rabbits, other guys shooing doves and some suspicious deer carcasses that have been picked up by DFG. Not everything that is in season according to fish and game can be hunted here. Remember you are hunting in a PARK, not a National Forest or BLM land. Hunting anything other than Pigs puts you in violation of CFR 327.8
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The Shotgun slug hunt is meant strictly for shotguns that fire slugs.
Not weapons with similar muzzle velocities or trajectories or shot guns with buck shot. The .223 shells that I picked up in the parking lot this morning certainly did not fall into the “shot gun” definition.
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No side arms.
If you can’t kill a pig with three slugs you don’t belong in the park.
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Remember to display your hunting pass.
I wrote my first ticket for that one last week. Most of the time, we can check your license plate number against our records, but if you come up to a vehicle that is not registered and is not displaying a tag, we won't know who you are and assume the worst (unregistered hunter unfamiliar with the rules and boundaries).
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With over 1000 registered hunters and good weather in April bringing out a lot of people who normally would have been discouraged by rain, we have hit our hunter carrying capacity where problems being created by hunters outweigh the advantages in pig depredation that hunting causes.

This has been an out of control circus this year of my own making and I will be significantly changing the program next year to try to return this to the hunting experience you had a couple of years ago.
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Now that I am done ranting at the 99.% of good hunters here on JHO, How can I change the Lake Sonoma hunt program to accommodate you and exclude the 1% that are causing all of these problems?
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OK, let the criticism begin!
Joel
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[BarneyFlats]

I only hunted the lake once last year and once again this year,the time to get out just hasn't been there.I really appreciate the opportunity to hunt there as should everyone else. It is just like everthing else, a good thing gets ruined by a few bad apples. The thing I would change would be doing away with the shotguns. To many guns and not a large enough area. It's a great hunting oppotunity and I would hate to see it go away. Just my 2 cents

 

[sancho]

good luck with the 1%. this is my second season running about your park. i dont have much in the way of suggestions.

i do know the weekends seem extra crowded. i have heard shotgunners on the archery only side.

cliff

 

[BarneyFlats]

Maybe limit the number of permits?

 

[fishnhunt]

Maybe limit the number of permits?

second that

 

[NikolaKangrga]

I only hunted the shotgun side once this year. So I do not have much constructive criticism for you. If Iam not mistaken, I believe someone on JHO once said that archery season should be an open hunt, and shotgun/muzzleloader be a draw hunt. For example, only "X" amount of hunters may hunt a certain part of the lake per weekend or week.
Even if 200 shotgun/muzzleloader tags were available to draw (per season), within a 2 month, 8 week, period of time only 25 hunters have permission to hunt the shotgun side of the lake per week. The week you can hunt will be posted on your paperwork.

That will keep the amount of hunters hunting certain weeks or portions of the lake to a minimum and possibly help reduce SO much chaos.
my two cents

PS- Yes, I do know that you CANNOT hunt with a muzzleloader at lake sonoma

 

[Backcountry]

Get rid of the shotgun hunting completely... no draw, no juniors, etc... archery only. I'd also suggest getting rid of crossbows too.

Once you get back down to a core group of archers, 99% of the problems that you've been having with the 1% of knuckleheads will be dramatically reduced.

 

[map]

Before the shotgun guys get blamed for everything, and get kicked out. What are the boating restrictions? Is it 5 MPH? I have 9 foot oars, so I can oar my boat along the shore. Can I spot guys along the shore, and pick them up later? How low is the lake? Can I sleep overnight in my anchored boat?

Richard

 

[jb229]

MAP, don't be an A** and reply with BS.

Here are my thoughts on the matter.

Do away with the shotgun season for one; you will weed out a lot of bad apples. If possible open up more of the park. The area next to Yorty Creek is a lot of land, and if you have to close some areas to open others I would close some parts or all of Liberty Glen since that has a lot of foot traffic from Hikers/joggers. Let the Gen Pop have that area since they can ruin your hunt anyway. To make it better in the long run if anybody is cited for not obeying the rules, ban them from hunting the lake for a few years. Also it is obvious the park is understaffed to police the area, we has hunters should take the initiative to do it ourselves. If you see a shot gunner on an archery side, or an archery hunter hunting a closed area it is easy enough to use verbal judo on them to extract information that you can then turn in to the proper people. Instead of being aggressive at first and putting them on the defense just be nice and start up a conversation. But if somebody needs to be tuned up by all means lay into them. Limiting the number of hunters that can register sounds like a good idea but then you’re going to decrease hunters therefore reducing the number of hogs killed hence defeating the purpose of why the park allows hunting.
<O
But again I think the first step is to get rid of the shotgun season for starters.<O></O>

 

[upper]

If you truely want to control the hogs,Archery is not an option.Sad but true.How many hogs were killed at Choppers.Your control will always be very light with Archery.Archery maybe safer than shotgun but that is it.Not pounding Archery just the Facts Upper

 

[Backcountry]

As an advocate for keeping Lake Sonoma archery only, I have to agree 100% with upper. Eradication is simply not possible, no matter what the regulations or weapons allowed.

Basically, the position that Ranger Joel is in is a management position... does he want to attempt to manage the hog population through managed hunting, or does he want to manage a group of hunters that grows each year, and has grown exponentially since allowing 1 month of shotgun hunting last year and this year? Sounds like he's at his wits end and is tired of doing both.

Shutting down what's been happening in February for two years may go a long way towards simplifying managing the hunters.

 

[White Mamba]

Hi Joel,
Before I offer my critisim id like to say that I love hunting Lake Sonoma and I really appreciate that we are allowed to do so! Im hunter 252 and I hunt at least 4 days a week ,rain or shine! Lake Sonoma is a beautiful place and the rangers have always been friendly and helpfull.
When I first started hunting I rarely saw another bowhunter, and even on weekends it was possible to find a spot without alot of hunters in it. When shotgun season started that changed quickly, as well as the trash, and crowded parking on the side of the road. In my opinion it would be best to eliminate shotgun anywhere near rockpile road and have the shotgun season a boat in draw or just eliminate the shotgun season and make it a limited draw with a couple shotguns allowed on the lake per day.
Im not just bagging on shotgunners either because i do hunt with a shotgun alot in the mornings, But !, anyone can pick up a shotgun and go hunt ,90% of the trash, the pistols, rifles, tresspasing and problems stem from the shot gun season, I personally see it!
P.S. the nieghbor fixing the fence across from Liberty Glen campground is clearcutting a huge swath of trees the farther he gets down, help!!!

Jayson

 

[SacFireJT]

Get rid of the shotgun hunting completely... no draw, no juniors, etc... archery only. I'd also suggest getting rid of crossbows too.

Once you get back down to a core group of archers, 99% of the problems that you've been having with the 1% of knuckleheads will be dramatically reduced.

Amen!

 

[TRey]

Hi Joel,
First off thanks for everything.
Pig depredation is the interest that got this program started. The stats probably show that more pigs are killed when shotgun starts than when only archers are there. I would suggest a month long draw for shotgun similar to what Joice Island does. Figure an acceptable carrying capacity for gun hunters in the current gun area and give that a go. That way you limit it to serious hunters who want a good chance at a quality hunt. A thorough required orientation, sign in, and weapons check to boot.

I would not close the Liberty Glen side to hunting. Keep it archery only.
I'd establish a check in kiosk that we have to drive through to get to the hunting area. That would enforce the display of tags in the window. It would also serve as a check out station to check out your pig. This could help identify if it was taken with an approved weapon and also keep your numbers accurate for your reports. Friends of Lake Sonoma could help staff that or staff your visitor center counter so your rangers can staff the kiosk.
If you have the rangers available keep up a high profile. Last night I heard shotguns firing on the Liberty Glen side...who or how do I report that?

Require hunter orange on the shotgun hunt for all hunters. It'll be easier to spot people with your bino's!

Oh yeah...no crossbows unless the hunter is a disabled hunter that can't draw a bow.

That's a start...

 

[bpnclark]

Eventhou I'm not a "true" bowhunter - I have to agree with some other members here. To some people, "Shotgun" season means bring your AR15, your glock, your SKS and shoot everything that moves.

 

[MikenSoCo]

Bring back the post card draw. If any effort or delayed gratification is involved you lose 99% of the idiots.:toast-yellow:

 

[PORCH]

If you truely want to control the hogs,Archery is not an option.Sad but true.How many hogs were killed at Choppers.Your control will always be very light with Archery.Archery maybe safer than shotgun but that is it.Not pounding Archery just the Facts Upper

I'm not familiar with the situation at Lake Sonoma. However Upper is dead on.

 

[hatchet1]

sounds like a great place....:skeered:

 

[DiamondHunter]

limited draw shotgun hunt (boat in only),and inform hunters of ALL hunting regulations pertaining to Lake Sonoma.

 

[map]

Count me out now!!!!

I can tell this much, "I will never hunt there". For one, I don't like the subjective tone of the Ranger's message. Second, I don't like the subjective label of being, "an A** who replies with BS". It's all too subjective for me to have any fun doing it, so I op-out now,


Richard