Poor Hunter behavior at Lake Sonoma.

[wtpops]

I have never hunted Sonoma, would like to. I am an archer, have never hunted with a fire arm in my life, Recurves and long bows for the last 17 years. Now with all that said all hunters are my brothers, i would hate to see shotguners excluded fron any hunt but it does sound like a shotgun drawing hunt would apply here you would weed out most of the bad apples if they just had to fill out an app.

I do have experance trying to control public crouds. For boundries, you need to have visable boundries , if you have a fence down or even in disrepair say 2 or 3 out of 4 strands of wire down , a man that would not cross a good fence will talk himself into crossing a downed fence. A good fence with signs every 100 feet or so will stop 99% of the truspass problem, This will not stop a pocher or truspasser.

Rules of the hunt, if you are handing out a sheet of rules for people to read, 75% are not even looking at it. Just human nature , i dont no how to solve this one but if a guy knows the rules they will follow them most of the time. Now i now as a hunter it is our responsability to know the rules and follow them but some times you have to staple them to a guys forehead before he will reed them, im just going on expreance with public that i have had.

One thing that might work to help is establishing a reputation of extreem enforcemet of the rules. Most of us on this site have a do hunt Fort Hunter Ligglett and all of us know that you dont mess around there, they will hall you off in a heart beat. Guys that do things the right way wont have any thing to worry about.

 

[sancho]

the lake sonoma boundary fences are in fantastic shape. they are very obvious. there are some beat down fences running about, but again, there is no mistaking the boundaries.

i love that place.

 

[Huntr Pat]

Muddy

Since you haven't hunted there yet I will let you know the boundries are well marked with metal Corp of engineer signs driven into the ground at what I believe to be close intervals. You have to truly make an effort to leave the property.
I usually hunt the fence lines and haven't seen a spot that wasn't fenced or marked yet.

I have hunted there a few times and have been with some freinds when they were succesfull. I have hunted the north west end of the lake on the very top of the ridges where alot of the fences are downed. My point is how much up keep is there. I have not been there in 2 years and thing may have been repaired but my understanding there is some issues with fences. So let it go. Unless you are volunteering.

 

[DJFrosty]

We are a shrinking group as hunters in general so the more we break into factions the less influence we have and the fewer oportunities for everyone. If the bowhunters don't support the shotgun guys the shotgun guys will be nowhere to be found next time a bow hunt is threatened to be closed or its deemed inhumaine because some bow hunter was to lazy to practice and gut shoots something and its dies on an envirofreaks front yard with the arrow rotting in its stomach. Find a solution that includes all hunters and the youth(our future hunters) and get it implemented. Bad hunters are everywhere. THey are the exception not the norm and should be treated as such and they carry bows and guns. Found more than my fair share of wounded or dead deer after the bow season. Seems a draw hunt would keep the yahoos on both sides out as they're too lazy to fill out the app and pay the fee. Open hunts are generally a disaster everywhere. It brings out every guy with a weapon who hasn't been outdoors in years and hasn't practiced with it in just as long. Make it a draw hunt with plenty of tags for both and generally that weeds out the wieners. Like I said before no matter the flavor of the weapon we need to stick together and support each other or in 5 maybye 10 years all opportunities will be gone.

 

[houghton3906]

I have gone a total of 4 times to hunt pigs. I drive 6 hours from Nevada. This is a great place to go hunt. I feel that you should outlaw shotguns. I feel that the hunt was much better when it was archery only.

 

[muddy_udders]

Muddy


I have hunted there a few times and have been with some freinds when they were succesfull. I have hunted the north west end of the lake on the very top of the ridges where alot of the fences are downed. My point is how much up keep is there. I have not been there in 2 years and thing may have been repaired but my understanding there is some issues with fences. So let it go. Unless you are volunteering.

I reread your post and saw it said you had hunted there don't know why I read it diferently the first time. All I was stating is so far I haven't found a section that it was unclear where the boundry was. It wasn't directed as an attack on you. sorry if it seemed that way.
I have no problem helping mend fences.



I wonder if making people wear their hunter number in view like with fishing licenses would help. Don't they do something like this back East?

 

[DJFrosty]

They do in the midwest thats how they caught that guy who killed all those people. One of them wrote his hunter number down on a 4 wheeler in blood before they died. I gotta believe there is a compromise that will work for the guys it really matters too on both sides of the weapon isle.

 

[Beastie]

This topic is getting so comical now! Leave it alone. Its our job to have common sense, its the Rangers job to enforce the rules of the hunt that has been established on the governing agencies land. Im a park ranger also, and despite what most people think here, and Ranger Joel im sure you will secretly agree with this, the public in general has a very low level of common sense. No matter how many signs you put up, fences you fix, orientations you have, these problems will occur no matter what. The only true way to rid or even come close to managing these problems is pure enforcement and limiting the number of people. I know budgets and staff is always an issue in regards to that strategy, but that is the reality of this situation.

 

[upperEA]

despite what most people think here, and Ranger Joel im sure you will secretly agree with this, the public in general has a very low level of common sense.

Speak for yourself Beast, I know plenty of members of the general public that have far more common sense than those in charge of many of the areas we inhabit. I have met my share of enforcement officers that take the same view as you when it comes to the public enjoying their sport and must say they often create far more problems than they ever solve. I disagree with you that it is soley the rangers job to ensure the rules are followed. WE as a group must ensure that the ethics of our sport endure or we can all wave good bye as it fads into the past.

 

[Beastie]

What do you do for a living? I deal with the public on a daily basis in this capacity and have implemented and enforced all kinds of ideas and plans to mitigate these same problems. Unfortunately, its a fact of life and you will NEVER rid these problems 100%. You just manage them the best you can. It really is the reality of the situation and again the best approach to this is to limit the number of hunters during the month of February. Police other hunters all you want, are you going to confront someone doing something illegal who has a gun?? I sure as hell wouldnt, and that comes from plenty of experience. That is stricly law enforements job. Someone posted earlier that the people causing the problems are not the norm, and that is the truth, so unfortunately, the more people you have, the more incidents are going to occur.

Im over this subject, it will be a never ending discussion of opinions and nothing will get solved here anyway.

Just be accountable for your OWN actions.

 

[NikolaKangrga]

Im a park ranger also, and despite what most people think here, and Ranger Joel im sure you will secretly agree with this, the public in general has a very low level of common sense

Really? Hmm... I must have missed something. So what you are saying is that my family, close friends, girlfriend, and MYSELF have NO COMMON SENSE? I really must have missed something if Iam hearing that right! I have hunted lake sonoma for a few years now. Quite a few considering I only live 30 min from it. In my experiences, ONE person can field dress and skin a pig, leave its remains in the camp ground, and NOW the ENTIRE group of hunters at LS are now Inconsiderate, pieces of poop. Then you can have 1000 out of the 1200 hunters that checked in for the weekend pick up trash while hunting... Do you think the public hears about that? Absolutely not! Im not saying 1000 hunters are picking up trash while hunting, but my point is, just because there is one rotten apple on the tree, does not mean the entire tree is worthless! The MAJORITY of public has common sense BEASTIE, its the few who dont that ruins everything for the rest.

So PLEASE, before you run around insulting the "majority" of us, think about what you say.

Now thats been said, being a local to LS, I feel as if we CAN resolve this issue. It may take one or two years to perfect it, but it can be done. Ranger Joel, I would like to be a volunteer if it comes to that! Feel free to contact me anytime....

 

[bpnclark]

You guys are a little too sensitive! Beastie is right. Thats why I hunt far off the road; to get a way from the "Public". And I'm sure a lot of you guys do the same thing.

There should be a Ranger at the gate checking everyone in. And it should go like -

You're cool -
You're cool -
You're cool -
Nope -
You're cool -
Nope -
Nope -
Nope -
You're cool -

That will solve the problem.

 

[NikolaKangrga]

haha... nope nope nope. thats funny. I do agree. There are bad hunters in every bunch. But you cant admit that the majority of hunters have poor ethics or disrespectful to the land and neighbors. I am not a sensitive person at all. Just dont agree with his statement. I feel that if the majority of the "good" hunters/people began helping ranger joel and F&G reminding people to pick up their trash, not leaving remains near trails or campsites, I think that the small % of people who disrespect the rules will soon disappear. HOPEFULLY.

All I know is there are hunting/fishing programs just like LS's through out our country. Are ALL of the programs having the same problems? I doubt it.

 

[hatchet1]

:renne must consider this wondeful state we live in, to understand whats "really going on"....:ren:

 

[White Mamba]

Heres a interesting story for you guys! My buddy called me yesterday and said three pigs were taken by where we were hunting the other day, and a group of asian guys got two of them, one in each valley. Needless to say we went slumming it ( just kidding ) on the shotgun side this morning. As were hiking up the hill we end up meeting the same guys who shot the 2 pigs and were talking to them about their hunt when one of them told us that they only got one because after they took thier first pig to the car and went up for the second they found another group of hunters came by and cut off all four hams!!! WOW, I was actually mad for about ten minutes when they told me that! Guess i wont ever leave my pigs unattended anymore. Interesting people out there!

 

[upperEA]

It really is the reality of the situation

In a way your right. It's the reality of the situation within the realm of YOUR reality. My reality still believes that the majority of the public have plenty of common sense and know right from wrong. Sure you will never stop 100% of it, if we did we wouldn't need you now would we. From what I've read I don't think Ranger Joel feels the way you do either publicly or secretly but does believe something may get solved right here on JHO or he would have never made the post nor asked for opions from the public you see as having little common sense.

 

[Muggs]

Four Hams?!! I'm still trying to find my first animal with that many hams.:smiley_green_with_e
Seriously, people (I refuse to call them hunters) like that screw things up for the majority of us. I've know of incidents where someone has claimed game that others have shot. Is it worth getting into an argument with someone else who is carrying a weapon?

It sucks. But the fact is that there will always be some people in the field who have zero ethics. You could confront them (not the best idea) or you could get as much information as possible and report it to the proper authorities.

What burns my butt about a lot of hunters is that they will bitch about something that happened in the field but when you ask if they reported it they'll say "No I didn't wantto get involved." We all have a stake in hunting and should do our part to help the authorities.

Bitching = Talking to hear yourself talk

Complaining = Offically telling the authority about a specific problem and expecting results

 

[rodneyshishido]

Interesting reading. Fix the problem, not the blame!

Sad to say that even here in Hawaii, every time I hunt I am always having to pack out someone else's trash. We have many of the same abuses that Range Joel referenced. We do have a designated archery area and the abuses are in that area as well.

I personally would like a phone # to call to report abuses. Where I hunt, you get pretty decent cell phone reception. I have run into unethical hunters in the field and I feel I was ineffective in talking with them. I would be willing to testify against unlawful hunters, but, would prefer and enforcement official handle the confrontation.

 

[upper]

How do you spell Eliteist,or in other words one higher.Under your breath of coarse.JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEse Upper

 

[Beastie]

Well I know ill get shit for this, but have any of you that have attacked my statement even READ the words. First of all, I didnt say that YOU, Nikola, didnt have any common sense. Second of all, I never said anyone here on this site has low or no common sense. I can see that there are several true Californians here, always having to sensitive over everything. Remember I am using the word SEVERAL, not EVERYONE. Once and for all, these are problems that are going to occur NO MATTER what you do. I have said before that I agree with the fact that the people causing some of these problems are a small number and in fact it is a combination of hunters and recreational users. And believe me, unless you work directly with the public in this type of environment, the common sense level truely is LOW. Remember I used the word LOW, not NO. By the way Nikola, you actually did prove my statement to be true.