Poor Hunter behavior at Lake Sonoma.

[sancho]

white mamba...that story was amazing. ouch.

 

[Beastie]

Ranger Joel, if youre still reading this nonsense, let me express a professional, rational and reasonable approach to this situation. No, not the senseless bickering going on here that is solving nothing, but a true start to getting a handle on the problem.

This suggestion is just that, because without all of the information in front of me, thats all it can be.

1) Set a hunter number quota for the season. That may not be necessary if the data says that most registered hunters only come to hunt for example 5 or less days a season.
2) For the shotgun season, it is necessary to have a draw to control numbers and have accountability but more importantly, hunter safety.

In my opinion, the issues at hand should decrease and hunter safety will increase.

The ideas earlier about volunteer work are great, but that should no means be used a requirement to hunt at the lake. Also, if there is this big drive to volunteer at the lake to repair things and pick up trash, who here is going to take charge and start that program up and be responsible for it??????? Something to think about!

I am now TRUELY done!!!!!!!

 

[NikolaKangrga]

I have said before that I agree with the fact that the people causing some of these problems are a small number and in fact it is a combination of hunters and recreational users.........

........By the way Nikola, you actually did prove my statement to be true.

Beastie, As for the "true californian"...? I am not sure if you are insulting me for not agreeing with you, or.....? Iam speechless. Of all people, Im not sensitive. Just not afraid to stand for what I believe and disagree with. I guess being proud must be a california thing? But to follow up on your last statements, in your post I originally responded to, you stated "the public in general has a very low level of common sense". Thats your statement I disagreed with. As for the # of people who are the problem at LS, I agree with you 100%. I believe that a small number of people cause the majority of the problems. I also agree that getting rid of these issues will be VERY hard to do, but doable (my opinion).

When you say I proved your statement to be true, are you referring to the number of people causing the chaos, or the percentage of our population with common sense?

 

[NikolaKangrga]

Ranger Joel, if youre still reading this nonsense, let me express a professional, rational and reasonable approach to this situation. No, not the senseless bickering going on here that is solving nothing, but a true start to getting a handle on the problem.

This suggestion is just that, because without all of the information in front of me, thats all it can be.

1) Set a hunter number quota for the season. That may not be necessary if the data says that most registered hunters only come to hunt for example 5 or less days a season.
2) For the shotgun season, it is necessary to have a draw to control numbers and have accountability but more importantly, hunter safety.

In my opinion, the issues at hand should decrease and hunter safety will increase.

The ideas earlier about volunteer work are great, but that should no means be used a requirement to hunt at the lake. Also, if there is this big drive to volunteer at the lake to repair things and pick up trash, who here is going to take charge and start that program up and be responsible for it??????? Something to think about!

I am now TRUELY done!!!!!!!

Getting back to why we are all here,
Beastie,
I agree with your suggestions, although the archery program brings in a good number of people, although while hunting with archery OR in the archery only zone, you rarely see other people unless you are on a main trail. I dont believe the # of hunters throughout the season is as much a problem as controlling the amount of hunters during the shotgun season. I stated in my original post, if X amount of hunters register (shotgun), that number can be divided by the # of weeks in the shotgun season. Only allow hunters to hunt the lake (with shotguns) for one week. Almost like a draw tag. It will control the amount of people on the lake/core property at any given time, and will be MUCH easier for the staff to control. Hunters will be encourage to take advantage of the WHOLE week instead of getting a RUSH of people from fri-sun.

Just my two cents....

PS- I would like to apologize for "hijacking" this post. :smiley_doh:

 

[THE ROMAN ARCHER]

1) Nikola, Bro i agree with you a 1000% on your last 2 post word for word.

2) RangerJoel was asking us JHO members for our POSITIVE feedback and opinions on the situation going on at lake sonoma, so i know he knows we have commen sense.

3) i want to welcome all the new forum members and first time posters and out of state members for all their POSITIVE feedback due to RangerJoels post on the Lake Sonoma situation, i am glad to have you all here and look forward to your future post and chatting.

4) the only real NEGITIVE VIBE i got on this whole thread was from OFFICER BEASTIE's post, some of the things you said were very offensive in a round about way, for some reason i sense THREAD HIJACKING or can we say steeling the LIME LIGHT from someone else. this is RangerJoels thread, not yours! so listen and dont speak!

5) i just want to thank Rangerjoel once agian for bringing all us members together here on the forum to try and help and resolve the Lake Sonoma situation.

6) now i can sleep, GOODNIGHT................................tra

 

[rodneyshishido]

Officer Beastie's posts sure roughed up some feathers.

I am certain that everyone's comments on the majority of hunters being ethical and having common sense is correct. However as a user group it is interesting that we present the perception of being unethical. This perception may not be correct, but it is how hunters are viewed and judged. We can take the comments personally and get mad and defend ourselves, or ask the question: how do we change the perception.

That is my question to Beastie - what action can we as hunters take to improve how we are viewed by others?

 

[upperEA]

How do you spell Eliteist,or in other words one higher.Under your breath of coarse

NARCISSIST, is that right?? Oh no wait maybe it's egomaniac..Oh heck I don't know I am just a regular member of the public.

By the way Upper love the post, must be something with the name!!!!!!!!!!

Ok I'm done, sorry for the hijack, It won't happen again promise..

 

[Beastie]

Rodney, I actually do have an answer to your question. I deal with these same issues on a daily basis just like Ranger Joel and have used and implemented several management techniques that curb these issues and leave the non hunting and anti hunting groups with a much better understanding of what hunting truely is. Unfortunately, although I never attacked anyone here personally, I seemed to upset some people. Trying to discuss a situation such as this requires face to face meetings. I will admit, I did post some things that were really not relevant to the original topic, I was just responding to previous posts. If EVERYONE here reads the title of the thread posted by Ranger Joel himself, it is title Poor HUNTER Behavior. Yes, thats correct, Poor HUNTER behavior. This is not an attack on you Ranger Joel, but a question to anyone reading, why do you think Ranger Joel titled the thead this way. Answer, because somewhere along the road, some hunters behavior was either observered by or reported to Ranger Joel.

So to answer you question Rodney, Im sorry but I cant completly answer the question sitting here typing quick replys. It is a bit more complex than that unfortunately. I gave my suggestion about how to control hunters and enforcement issues earlier. As far as what actions to take to improve our image, simply put, it starts with being proactive in the areas we use. But thats all im going to say about this. Too long winded.

 

[rodneyshishido]

Beastie-
Thanks for the reply. If you have the inclination or time, I would appreciate information on your management techniques. Maybe we can use them here?

 

[Beastie]

All I will be able to do is just send you some ideas and suggestions. Figuring exactly how to approach this is impossible without having more information about what is really going on. Without having information that documents these problem(s), like pictures and statements, and occurances, it is nearly impossible to identify if these are "problems" or incidents that fall into a margain of error. We have to leave a margain for "problems". They will ALWAYS occur, now to what degree they will occur is something we can manage. So I can leave some fairly basic ideas that may be heplful to get started, and then you can tailor them to your specific needs at the lake.

1) First, determine if the information leads you to believe that these incidents, whatever they may be, are truely "problems". Again, no matter what you do technique wise, you will ALWAYS have incidents, or "problems".
2) If you decide to implement a plan, make any information given to the public, and this is not an attack on anyone, make the information as easy to read and clear as you possibly can including maps, regulations, boundries, changes to any regulations, etc. I do believe that you do very well in this area at the lake. Everything I have read and looked at was extremely clear.
3) Unfortunately, the issue of human waste not being buried is something you really cant do anything about. Here is the environment, people outdoors, in the case of hunting, off trail, and no facilities. Pretty basic. This is a type of behavior that unless witnessed by the enforcement agency, is just that behavior. How do you prove who left the poo? Now how do you go about training a grown adult to take a crap in the forest appropriately??? Good question and extremely difficult to answer and to be honest with you, there is nothing you can do about this. If I were managing the area, I dont think I would want a sign showing a "no pooing allowed" at the trailhead. Maybe post the ordinance on the sign so that if enforcement does witness it, they now have two pieces to base their contact on. The only thing you can do to minimize the number incidents really is to minimize the number of hunters. This behavior will ALWAYS occur. It happens everywhere, backcounty Yosemite, wilderness areas and so on. Sorry, but in my experience, its just the way it is. Some people, what are you going to do?

Sorry, I could go on and on, but I feel like this topic has been beat into the ground like a dead horse.

 

[Huntr Pat]

Regardless what weapon of choice we as hunters should work these issues out. Before the shot gun season started I would fine beer & soda cans on top of some high ridges along with trash. I know for sure the pig didn't put it there it was brought by someone. We should stop this pointing and bickering about our selves because as Ranger Joel mention (POOR HUNTER BEHAVIOR) Not bowhunters or shotgunners Hunters. If you don't have something positive to say lets move on and fixed this before its too late. I would hate to see our hunting lands taken away. Can you imagine how much the non hunter and anti's enjoy seeing us fight among our selves although we are not literally fighting but some of the statement posted sounds pretty strong to me. Professional or not bring something to the table so we can move forward. As for me I still would volunteer some time if asked to clean or fixed our public land as far as Lake Sonoma concerned.

 

[jryeo]

A good way to weed out the non-ethical hunters would be with a deer decoy near a trailhead. DFG regularly busts hunters in Alaska for shooting at decoys after dark. Lake Sonoma is a perfect opportunity for a sting, with so many skunked hunters in a small area itching to shoot something.

Last week as I got back to my car, a truck pulled up and asked if I had shot a pig. I said no, and they told me they had just seen a pig running down the road with an arrow sticking out of it! I suspect one of the recurve hunters I talked to that day - harder to make a lethal shot.

 

[yupurs]

I have never hunted Lake Sonoma- don't plan to. BUT.........

This is for every one - everywhere----

We have to police ourselves, or some one else will.

Yeah yeah yeah- I know- we can't tell others what to do--- we would more than likely get shot if we did. The ones that are abusing the rules/regs won't take to being told that they are screwing it up for the rest of us--- they don't care!

Hopefully some of the idiots might see this and think twice- If you don't abide with the regs we will all lose our RIGHTS to hunt/fish. The enviro nazi will use every excuse they can to force the issue of banning us from our public lands.

ok--- I'm off the rant--- let's go get a pig or two----

 

[ArticleTheFourth]

I went out to LS a couple of times in February and did not see too many hunters. My son and I pickup a few pieces of trash, but did not see a lot in the areas where we went looking for pigs. I did not have a chance to 'line-up' on a hog, but really enjoyed the experience hiking in the great outdoors. I hope we will get to do this next year. Thanks Ranger Joel!

 

[jzeblaz]

An idea would be cameras. I know that gets into some expense, but people tend to behave better when they know they are being watched.

 

[Backcountry]

Bad idea... the same people doing all the other crap will simply steal the cameras too.

 

[Beastie]

I got, I finally figured out how to solve ALL problems that occur!! We need to pool some money together, launch a satelite into space that monitors the Lake and its boundries, then when anyone uses the lake for whatever reason, they must be implanted with a tracking device at the visitor center so the satelite will monitor EVERYTHING that anyone does while using the lake. Simple as that!

 

[muddy_udders]

only if we get to implant you first
I always say "You must possess common sense in order to use it"

But back on topic
I believe there were some great ideas here. I am glad people were willing to speak up and not just say it is a lost cause and wave goodbye to Lake Sonoma.

Hopefully Joel will take the ideas and come up with a plan that we all can live with.

 

[jryeo]

Slowed down now

I've been going every (open) weekday after work for the last month. During shotgun season I would usually see 6-10 trucks on Rockpile road. Last night, now that it's archery only again there were only two others besides me.

It's not that the shotgunners are any better or worse behaved than bowhunters, it's just the sheer number that causes problems.

I know that in the month of February, more hunters were registered than in the previous two and a half months.

 

[THE ROMAN ARCHER]

Jryeo, it was very shocking to me when Rangerjoel had mentioned when he posted this topic that their were around 1200 registerd hunters at Lake Sonoma, i just registerd there 6 weeks ago and my registerd # was under 500 which means around another 800 hunters registerd within those 2 weeks before febuary shot gun season.
there is noway you would cath me in the woods with that many gun hunters even if i was a gun hunter too, just way to many hunters for a small concentrated area like Lake Sonoma, even if it was that many bowhunters too, you wouldnt cath my butt in the woods hunting bowhunting either in that situation, just to many hunters. hopefully Ranger Joel will come up with a solution that works for everyone, have a great day, and talk to ya soon.............tra