Ranch & Hunt Club Security

[Hikingwithguns]

Not stepping on your toes at all Solus. Just wanted to clear something up. Just because a private chunk of land is "Not Posted", does not allow someone to hunt there. Granted if you are a landowner, it would be in your best interest to post your property. It only gives people a fair warning and supports your case in court if it happens to go that route. Someone can be escorted off a property if signs are not posted and you have no legal right to be in the area. If signs are posted and you simply walk past them, that's a whole different game. That was your warning and now you can be cited or arrested on site. You are suppose to know who owns the land even if it's not posted.

Either of you care to cite a source?

 

[Common Sense]

FGC 2016: It is unlawful to enter any lands under cultivation or enclosed by a fence, belonging to, or occupied by another, or ... where signs forbidding tresspass are displayed at intervals not less than three to a mile all along the exterior boundries...



Basically you can't be arrested for hunting on private property unless it is under cultivation, fenced, or posted. If the landowner catches you on his property he can legally ask you to leave, but if you comply with his request you cannot be charged with tresspassing.

 

[DurtenTyler]

Here's the whole thing

CAL. FGC. CODE § 2016 : California Code - Section 2016: It is unlawful to enter any lands under cultivation or enclosed by a fence, belonging to, or occupied by, another, or to enter any uncultivated or unenclosed lands, including lands temporarily inundated by waters flowing outside the established banks of a river, stream, slough, or other waterway, where signs forbidding trespass are displayed at intervals not less than three to the mile along all exterior boundaries and at all roads and trails entering such lands, for the purpose of discharging any firearm or taking or destroying any mammal or bird, including any waterfowl, on such lands without having first obtained written permission from the owner of such lands, or his agent, or the person in lawful possession thereof. Such signs may be of any size and wording, other than the wording required for signs under Section 2017, which will fairly advise persons about to enter the land that the use of such land is so restricted.


Assuming you don't have permission, does this mean...

Fenced Private Property= Always Unlawful
Unfenced Private Property = Only Unlawful if its posted

?

 

[Common Sense]

Basically you can't be arrested for hunting on private property unless it is under cultivation, fenced, or posted. If the landowner catches you on his property he can legally ask you to leave, but if you comply with his request you cannot be charged with tresspassing.

If it is posted, fenced, or under cultivation you can be cited.

 

[fishingpolesling]

Getting back to your security question- I think your biggest concern should be vehicle traffic and having stout gates. Don't bother with chain and pad locks they are worthless. Have you ever seen a forest service gate or any other gov property gate? There's locking mechanisms that keep the lock itself from being victim to damage. Most poachers are lazy and POS's so they will be in vehicles looking for places to partake. I'd definetly put in trail cams, don't hide them, put them behind the gate on the side of the road next to the locking side of the gate in a yello steel enclosure that's set in a concrete footing. If someone see's there caught on camera and the camera is not easy to damage or remove they'll more than likely leave it alone and move on.

You probably won't ever be able to keep out people on foot unless you patrol your boarders. Post no tresspassing signs 3 times per mile and make sure to tend to your fences repairing holes and broken barb wire.

Good luck, enjoy your ranch, and take a lot of what's said in here with grain of salt....

 

[huntingbret]

Allow another fellow Fresno hunter, such as myself, to hunt your property, and I'll be sure to keep my ears and eyes open for trespassers and let them know they are trespassing. I also wouldn't mind just patrolling the area in the morning and the evening looking for trespassers, just to be able to hunt your property.

 

[DFG_Bear]

Assuming you don't have permission, does this mean...

Fenced Private Property= Always Unlawful

True

Unfenced Private Property = Only Unlawful if its posted

False. It's unlawful if it is either 1) under cultivation or 2) posted 3 to the mile.



Best case scenario for the hunter - FIND OUT WHO OWNS IT AND GAIN PERMISSION.

-Marc

 

[wtpops]

" There is a small fraction of hunters that poach, trespass, don't tag their game, etc."

First you need to understand that these people are not hunters they are criminals.

 

[7mallards]

I think this is a joke guys and the bait was laid and some took it..

Anyone who wants to start a hutning ranch would certainly not come onto a forum and ask advise from a group of guys..

Sorry but you would contact other ranch owners etc and go from there..

I dont think this is smelling real

 

[starcraft69]

I think this is a joke guys and the bait was laid and some took it..

Anyone who wants to start a hutning ranch would certainly not come onto a forum and ask advise from a group of guys..

Sorry but you would contact other ranch owners etc and go from there..

I dont think this is smelling real

DiDo, somethig is not right I like all you guys for the help I get on this board but i would never start a business from the advice on here. I think if this is real the post from 1usd is right on. just my 2 pennies worth

 

[Rob P.]

To me it feels like someone who would like to do something different but doesn't have a clue how to go about it or the financial backing to accomplish it.

There's a HUGE difference between cubicle farming and guiding on a private ranch. The skills don't necessarily cross over either. And, while it's acceptable to ask questions, trying to get business advice about a commercial enterprise in which you have NO EXPERIENCE AT ALL (even as a customer) on an internet forum is a joke.

OP; go hire a lawyer for the legal bits. Go hire a business consultant for the operational information. Go hire a tax accountant for the financial aspects. Go hire EMPLOYEES who have experience and knowledge on how to manage and maintain a large acreage private hunting ranch, greet, house, feed guests, clean up after everyone, and who have local contacts with supporting businesses (like game butchers) that your potential customers need to be happy. Go hire industry consultants to evaluate your property and the game there and whether it can sustained under hunting pressures. And, finally GO HUNT with a guide so you at least would know if you like crawling around in the underbrush while carry a heavy pack for hours on the hottest day of the year after a sleepless night in a strange place. At the least you'd know what people are expecting when they come to your place for a paid hunt.

Otherwise you are just wasting your time and dreaming.

 

[DurtenTyler]

I think this is a joke guys and the bait was laid and some took it..

Anyone who wants to start a hutning ranch would certainly not come onto a forum and ask advise from a group of guys..

Sorry but you would contact other ranch owners etc and go from there..

I dont think this is smelling real

I'm in a good mood so I'll spill the whole story.

Believe it or not, the ranch was passed down generation to generation through inheritance, and the current owners are wealthy and live 1,000 miles away. They renew their basic farming and cattle leases every so many years like clockwork and rarely visit. Its been a money maker for them, but not their trade or profession. They don't know about hunting, farming, cattle, and don't even know how to get around their own property. The ranchers who lease the property run the show.

As for me, I'm best friends with one of the owners. A group of us college buddies came here for a mini reunion to go swimming and have some beers. One of our college buddies kept asking about hogs and if we have them (we do). The guy keeps asking about hogs and ends up telling us that he recently went on a hunting trip with a bunch of his hunting friends on a ranch not unlike this one. They paid $500 per hog. They killed 10 hogs. That's $5,000. My best friend and I turn to each other and we can see the wheels turning...

We start spending more time here and go on a "test hunt" with the with our college buddy who hunts hogs. He easily got a hog. We ask around and find out that a the farm tenants may have been running a hunt "club under the table" behind the owners backs. Was it reported to the DFG? Was by the book? We don't know. We don't want to know. We just want to do things by the book, manage the hunting ourselves, and move forward amicably with good intentions and keep everything friendly.

We can't ask the tenants to help us set up the club. For one, we're taking money out of their pocket. Yes, it was under the table, shady, behind-the-owner's-back-money, but can you blame them? The owners were missing in action for like 25 years. We don't know anyone around here. That's why we're on a forum.

You can choose to believe me or not.

 

[DurtenTyler]

To me it feels like someone who would like to do something different but doesn't have a clue how to go about it or the financial backing to accomplish it.

There's a HUGE difference between cubicle farming and guiding on a private ranch. The skills don't necessarily cross over either. And, while it's acceptable to ask questions, trying to get business advice about a commercial enterprise in which you have NO EXPERIENCE AT ALL (even as a customer) on an internet forum is a joke.

OP; go hire a lawyer for the legal bits. Go hire a business consultant for the operational information. Go hire a tax accountant for the financial aspects. Go hire EMPLOYEES who have experience and knowledge on how to manage and maintain a large acreage private hunting ranch, greet, house, feed guests, clean up after everyone, and who have local contacts with supporting businesses (like game butchers) that your potential customers need to be happy. Go hire industry consultants to evaluate your property and the game there and whether it can sustained under hunting pressures. And, finally GO HUNT with a guide so you at least would know if you like crawling around in the underbrush while carry a heavy pack for hours on the hottest day of the year after a sleepless night in a strange place. At the least you'd know what people are expecting when they come to your place for a paid hunt.

Otherwise you are just wasting your time and dreaming.

You're spot on. My best friend owns a large percentage of the ranch, but there are technicalities that require other part-owner's (family) approval on financial and business management decisions. The ranch was passed down through inheritance so random people in different cities own small parts. One of them only eats organic food and doesn't believe in mouse traps or hurting any animals. One is a senior citizen who is so wealthy, he doesn't even care to meet with us about approving such a small business venture.

Yes, part of it is not having a clue, but part of it is just how overwhelming it is to get this done. If I were personally the sole owner of this entire place, I could easily schedule an appointment with an accountant, attorney and industry consultants in one morning, and go on a guided hunt in the afternoon. Its not that easy when there are a bunch of random clueless owners in different cities.

Its not as simple as.
1. My friend owns ranch.
2. We start hunt club.
3. Happily ever after.

The whole thing is a giant pain in the hog.

 

[bigboarstopper]

There's blaring issue your going to run into. Guide licence eligibility. The Dfg requires a person have some kind of experience before granting somone a guides licence. Their questionnaire asks about your hunting history of each species you intend to guide for. They go back an pull your info on returned tags, how many years you have had a hunting licence, citations, ect. If you don't have any experience or even any history of having a hunting licence then this really is all for nothing.

And honestly, your digging yourself a hole here. Telling the whole world here on the Internet that your completely clueless about hunting, guiding and the entire process then attempt to sell hunts as an experienced guide to the same people is truly an effort in futility. As a guide your only as good as your last hunt and reputation.

Like many posted already, give somone in the industry a call

 

[DurtenTyler]

There's blaring issue your going to run into. Guide licence eligibility. The Dfg requires a person have some kind of experience before granting somone a guides licence. Their questionnaire asks about your hunting history of each species you intend to guide for. They go back an pull your info on returned tags, how many years you have had a hunting licence, citations, ect. If you don't have any experience or even any history of having a hunting licence then this really is all for nothing.

And honestly, your digging yourself a hole here. Telling the whole world here on the Internet that your completely clueless about hunting, guiding and the entire process then attempt to sell hunts as an experienced guide to the same people is truly an effort in futility. As a guide your only as good as your last hunt and reputation.

Like many posted already, give somone in the industry a call

I'm not trying to scam anyone. I never said I'll sell myself as experienced. I'll just be honest with what I can offer. Some land, a truck, some maps, and where I've seen hogs.

Have you applied to the guide license? I've gotten advice that directly conflicts with yours. I've been told that you simply fill out an application involving a bond and send it in with a few hundred bucks and its not selective at all.

 

[Bayboy2020]

I think this is a joke guys and the bait was laid and some took it..

Anyone who wants to start a hutning ranch would certainly not come onto a forum and ask advise from a group of guys..

Sorry but you would contact other ranch owners etc and go from there..

I dont think this is smelling real

I agree it seems fishy to me. If this is real I would say before you start trying to guide other hunters you should gain more hunting experience yourself. Guiding hunters isn't some get rich quick scheme it takes hard work, blood, sweat, and tears. Again if you are serious and you want to charge people gain some more experience and maybe try guiding for a more experienced outfitter or guide before trying to do it yourself

 

[Bayboy2020]

If I were you I would lease the land to a guide or outfitter for a yearly fee and let him handle it

 

[hunterdoug]

if you have one "part owner" that doesn't want to hurt or hunt any animal you are dead in the water. your no better than the renters selling hunts to their friends "behind the owners back". end of story.

 

[hunterdoug]

on another note, go hunt the place, get some experience and some bacon, and skip the money aspect and enjoy having a big ranch to play on.
Too many of us would love to be as lucky as you and have a big private place to hunt, improve habitat, manage wildlife, etc. hell get into the PLM program.
If your in it for the money alone you're starting out on the wrong foot, ask other guides and clubs, there's too many hands in the pie.

 

[TonyS]

Might be news to some but I have seen and can tell you of several places that are public FENCED land. Just because there is a fence doesn't make it private. There are red posts and there are green posts. Do you know what they mean?