Ranch & Hunt Club Security

[DurtenTyler]

There are red posts and there are green posts. Do you know what they mean?

What does red vs green mean?

 

[jindydiver]

They paid $500 per hog. They killed 10 hogs. That's $5,000. My best friend and I turn to each other and we can see the wheels turning...

Yep, everyone sees the money, but no-one sees the hard work and preparation that had to go into guiding those hunters to success. If you want to charge $500 you better have a hell of a lot more to offer than "there is a paddock, I figure there might be pigs in it, go knock yourself out".

 

[HOGHUNTER714]

There's blaring issue your going to run into. Guide licence eligibility. The Dfg requires a person have some kind of experience before granting somone a guides licence. Their questionnaire asks about your hunting history of each species you intend to guide for. They go back an pull your info on returned tags, how many years you have had a hunting licence, citations, ect. If you don't have any experience or even any history of having a hunting licence then this really is all for nothing.

And honestly, your digging yourself a hole here. Telling the whole world here on the Internet that your completely clueless about hunting, guiding and the entire process then attempt to sell hunts as an experienced guide to the same people is truly an effort in futility. As a guide your only as good as your last hunt and reputation.

Like many posted already, give somone in the industry a call

Things must have changed. Back in the day, all you needed to do was fill out the required paperwork from DFG and pay the guide license fee (which at that time was $142 annually). You didn't need any type of insurance at that time (I hear you do now). If you didnt have any F&G violations and came up clean on a background check you were issued a guides license (no experience required).

 

[DurtenTyler]

Things must have changed. Back in the day, all you needed to do was fill out the required paperwork from DFG and pay the guide license fee (which at that time was $142 annually). You didn't need any type of insurance at that time (I hear you do now). If you didnt have any F&G violations and came up clean on a background check you were issued a guides license (no experience required).

Can anyone else comment on this? I was planning on starting to charge individuals a trespass fee in early 2013. I would provide maps and use of my truck if they wanted it. That would be against DFG regulations unless I'm a licensed guide.

There's blaring issue your going to run into. Guide licence eligibility. The Dfg requires a person have some kind of experience before granting somone a guides licence. Their questionnaire asks about your hunting history of each species you intend to guide for. They go back an pull your info on returned tags, how many years you have had a hunting licence, citations, ect. If you don't have any experience or even any history of having a hunting licence then this really is all for nothing.

I plan to have a hunting license and a few sent in tags by early 2013 but not much more. If my guide license application will be definitely be rejected, I need to immediately start seeking other employment and possibly cancel this entire business endeavor. Can anyone on this forum speak on the ease or difficulty of getting a guide license, and commercial hunt club license for that matter?

(Don't just give me a cookie cutter response that I need to ask the DFG. I'm in that process as well. I walked into their office and was directed to call their Sacramento office, which I did, and I'm waiting to receive a package of information via USPS, but I just want the low-down from people on the forum on your actual experiences with this.)

 

[HOGHUNTER714]

Can anyone else comment on this? I was planning on starting to charge individuals a trespass fee in early 2013. I would provide maps and use of my truck if they wanted it. That would be against DFG regulations unless I'm a licensed guide.




I plan to have a hunting license and a few sent in tags by early 2013 but not much more. If my guide license application will be definitely be rejected, I need to immediately start seeking other employment and possibly cancel this entire business endeavor. Can anyone on this forum speak on the ease or difficulty of getting a guide license, and commercial hunt club license for that matter?

(Don't just give me a cookie cutter response that I need to ask the DFG. I'm in that process as well. I walked into their office and was directed to call their Sacramento office, which I did, and I'm waiting to receive a package of information via USPS, but I just want the low-down from people on the forum on your actual experiences with this.)

I don't know for sure. (Can only go off what DFG is posting on the site). I went to DFG's website and the way I read it was pretty clear. As long as the required paperwork is filled out, fee is paid, No F&G Violations, expalin what experience you have and secure a bond, you shouldnt have any issues

 

[Mt Goat]

If you charge more than $100 per access fee, or more than $1000 a year you'll be required to get a Commercial Hunting Club License. The fee is base on the nimber of property's used to operate the Club. If you only have one property the fee is $200, 2-5 properties is $500, 6-10 properties of $1000.

If your offering a guiding service you'll need a guiding license that runs around $200, plus be bonded at around $50 a year. Id recommend getting a million dollar hunting/guiding/outfitter insurance policy each year to avoid liability to land owners and guide. Insurance will run somewhere between $900-$1500.

If you accept money for even gas you are considered a guide. Doing it right will pay for itself with a few hunters.

I'd post your property on all four corners, at all entrances , and every 100-300 yards, with hunting by permission only, or No Trespassing without written permission.

An average guided pig hunt now. days is running $600-$1000.

If you catered to self guided archery hunters, with a club or weekend access. If your property was good, and you were fair you could develop a good reputation pretty fast. If you don't manage your property right and over hunt it you'll be out of business pretty fast.

Anyway good luck.

Larry Lowell

 

[7mallards]

This is not right and who in their right mind would get information from guys on a website rather then contacting the DFG directly? I am not buying into the whole idea and all the responses are all over the place too as there in no one in here who has ever issued alicense to anyone nor knows the formalities of which something like this requires..

The thing nobody has mentioned yet is insurance and I can't imagine hunt club insurance is cheap not to mention if the owners "dont know" and someone gets hurt who gets sued in sue happy California..

This is just a bunch od "hogwash" lol sorry had to say it and why we are still commenting on tihs thread is beyond me.. I guarantee it isn't happening as there is just too many variables that dont add up here..

On a much brighter note heading to Canada Tuesday am will be hunting ducks and geese on Wednesday for 30 days ... woo hoo

 

[bigboarstopper]

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.?DocumentID=35195

Notice in the application it asks for your experience in which qualifies you as a guide. Mabye I'm spreading FUD but I think if you answered "none" a person would be denied. Otherwise why even ask.

 

[fishingpolesling]

7-insurance was touched on 1 post before your last one...

 

[Mt Goat]

Your talking the Government , they will take your money. If your a land owner they aren't going to deny you the right to protect your property from depredation especially with hogs. In order to let people pay for access you have to get the proper license, if your going to even drive anyone around on the property and take gas money you need a guiding license.

The guy is just asking questions. He has land available to him. He's not a hunter yet, but give him a break. No one has to hunt with him, but if he's going to offer self guided access hunts, and he has 1000 acres with hogs, maybe deer and turkeys too, help him out or remain quite , he's just asking and trying to figure out a market for his future business. He doesn't need experience for self guided land access hunts. Helping him just give more hunters more opportunities.

Sure he can go to the DFG website and obtain information, but what's wrong with asking questions ? I was always raised that the only dumb question is the one not asked.

Self guided do it yourself hunts through access are the best in my opinion, look at the success Tejon Ranchs pig hunts have been.

We should be encouraging new hunters, outfitters, land access not ridiculing them. We are either one solid hunting community united , that's always open to new members, or we will continue to lose our opertunitys.

As for insurance he's looking at around $1500 for an outfitters policy, that protects the guide, and land owner with a million dollar liability. Call Philadelphia insurance company

Larry Lowell

 

[Mt Goat]

DurtenTyler, if you want to call me at 760-963-9790, I'm willing to give you information , and license , bond and insurance information. If you call ask for Larry Lowell.

 

[HOGHUNTER714]

Your talking the Government , they will take your money. If your a land owner they aren't going to deny you the right to protect your property from depredation especially with hogs. In order to let people pay for access you have to get the proper license, if your going to even drive anyone around on the property and take gas money you need a guiding license.

The guy is just asking questions. He has land available to him. He's not a hunter yet, but give him a break. No one has to hunt with him, but if he's going to offer self guided access hunts, and he has 1000 acres with hogs, maybe deer and turkeys too, help him out or remain quite , he's just asking and trying to figure out a market for his future business. He doesn't need experience for self guided land access hunts. Helping him just give more hunters more opportunities.

Sure he can go to the DFG website and obtain information, but what's wrong with asking questions ? I was always raised that the only dumb question is the one not asked.

Self guided do it yourself hunts through access are the best in my opinion, look at the success Tejon Ranchs pig hunts have been.

We should be encouraging new hunters, outfitters, land access not ridiculing them. We are either one solid hunting community united , that's always open to new members, or we will continue to lose our opertunitys.

As for insurance he's looking at around $1500 for an outfitters policy, that protects the guide, and land owner with a million dollar liability. Call Philadelphia insurance company

Larry Lowell

Well put Larry........7Mallards...If you don't like what you are reading, then move on. How do you know nobody "knows the formalities of which something like this requires". Really? Some experienced people on this forum who have been around the block and have gone down that road. Like Larry (MTGoat) stated in his prior post. the guy is just asking questions. That's what this website was designed for. Cut him a little slack....

 

[7mallards]

Look Hog I could say the same thing to you "move on" as well it just makes no sense.. I assure you unless someone in this forum is an owner/outfitter then are only assuming they know the rules and regulations. Everything this guy stated is crazy even as far as saying hte the real owners wouldent't know they were hunting hogs on the property??? Come on that just seems ridiculious in the fact that what happens if you get hurt and sue are you then bringing the real owners into the mix??

I moved on trust me when it smells rotten it usually is and this stinks from the get go...


Lets see if you plunk down 500 for a hunt on property that the owners don't even know your hunting and the guide hasn't even got a hunting license holy smokes ...

Nuff said I'm going to Canada tomororw for 30 days hutning ducks and geese so stinky piggies are out for me and besides I shot one already this year too


Moved on

 

[Bayboy2020]

Look Hog I could say the same thing to you "move on" as well it just makes no sense.. I assure you unless someone in this forum is an owner/outfitter then are only assuming they know the rules and regulations. Everything this guy stated is crazy even as far as saying hte the real owners wouldent't know they were hunting hogs on the property??? Come on that just seems ridiculious in the fact that what happens if you get hurt and sue are you then bringing the real owners into the mix??

I moved on trust me when it smells rotten it usually is and this stinks from the get go...


Lets see if you plunk down 500 for a hunt on property that the owners don't even know your hunting and the guide hasn't even got a hunting license holy smokes ...

Nuff said I'm going to Canada tomororw for 30 days hutning ducks and geese so stinky piggies are out for me and besides I shot one already this year too


Moved on

I've been offered jobs guiding before and from what I understand it's $200 to obtain a guides license. I know they look into your history and if you have any violations in the past 2 years you are automatically denied. You do have to be bonded as well and if my memory serves it's about $100 a year for I believe $100,000 bond.

"I plan to have a hunting license and a few sent in tags by early 2013 but not much more. If my guide license application will be definitely be rejected, I need to immediately start seeking other employment and possibly cancel this entire business endeavor. Can anyone on this forum speak on the ease or difficulty of getting a guide license, and commercial hunt club license for that matter?(Don't just give me a cookie cutter response that I need to ask the DFG. I'm in that process as well. I walked into their office and was directed to call their Sacramento office, which I did, and I'm waiting to receive a package of information via USPS, but I just want the low-down from people on the forum on your actual experiences with this.)"

Getting licensed is easy, its the fact of your lack of experience that is troubling. Like I said earlier this is not a way to get rich quick. Can you make money? Of course you can but the guys who make money are the guys who have been doing this for years and have been hunting for years. As i said earlier the best thing for you to do would be bring in a guide or outfitter and lease the hunting rights to him. Depending where your ranch is I actually have a group of about 10 guys looking to lease the hunting rights to a piece of property for: quail, deer, hog, and turkey. If this was the route you wanted to go I think it would be best. Have a lawyer draw up papers to release you of any liability and set all ground rules and such so you don't get burned and what not. I have some experience with this as we use to lease the hunting rights to a huge ranch in Oregon. If this is something you would like to discuss PM me. I could give you an example of what we did and see if that route would be something you want to pursue if you are serious about it. Good Luck either way

 

[Mt Goat]

The amount of money they make whether it's $5000 or $50,000 doesn't matter. Proper management is the key to success. You don't want to over hunt the property , and be careful about running dogs, as they'll run the pigs to other property's. A 1000 acres isn't a hugh property.

If you decide to sub-lease to a private group think through it as 10 plus guys hunting year round can really put a dent in the land management of the property.

Realize you can charge $400-$500 for a self guided pig hunt, $1500 plus for self guided deer hunts, and $500 plus for self guided turkey hunts.

You can make money if you manage your resources right. If you improve your property, and habitat.

If you have game on the property and guys can hunt it, especially in a camping on site, self guided access type hunt, and your there to oversee hunters follow your rules and hold them accountable to be ethical, law abiding citizens, and again the hunter has success, you will get business.

Private Club is an excellent way to go, but until you know your resources, and come up with a management plan, really think through the number of members and the number of accessible hunting day they put pressure on the property. Again 10 guys hunting every weekend will put to much pressure on your property.

Price it right. Don't under estimate what people will pay to have exclusive access to 1000 acres in California to hunt pig, deer, turkey, quail, and varmits. You could get upwards of $5000 per hunter per year, but that could ruin your property, and run off or kill off alot of game in one year. You need to look at your resources, and come up with a habitat , and game management plan.

If you do it right you will develope a good reputation and get hunters, if you do it wrong you will still develope a reputation and hunter will run from you.

Just my advice

Larry Lowell

 

[Mt Goat]

If you hire a guide and charge per animal. The average guided hunt price is:
1) $600-$1000 per pig hunt
2) $650-$1200 per turkey
3) $1500-$3000 for a deer hunt
4) $150-$300 for a day of quail hunting
5) free to $300 for varmints.

Again formulating a good managment plan by knowing your resources and managing that resource right, and improving habitat. Is the best way to start.

Larry Lowell

 

[DurtenTyler]

Everything this guy stated is crazy even as far as saying hte the real owners wouldent't know they were hunting hogs on the property??? Come on that just seems ridiculious in the fact that what happens if you get hurt and sue are you then bringing the real owners into the mix??

Lets see if you plunk down 500 for a hunt on property that the owners don't even know your hunting and the guide hasn't even got a hunting license holy smokes ...

Wow, you made a ton of insanely fictional and ridiculous assumptions about me. Did you do okay on the critical reading section of the SAT exam? Of course I will get the consent of all owners (or in the case of the teenager, her and her signatory.) I am in the process of explaining to this yoga-class taking, Whole Foods eating, city dwelling teenage owner that I want to make money by killing animals on some land she has never even seen. This whole thing is a giant pain in the tush but excuse me if I don't explain in detail every single step I'm taking. I have a ton of work ahead of me that I haven't even mentioned on this board. Just trust me that I'm doing everything "by the book."

Secondly, I don't plan on taking clients any time soon. Actually, please, DO NOT contact me about hunting the property. I have received a few messages asking to hunt but I am not accepting clients. I'm inexperienced/unlicensed and it would be immoral/illegal for me to accept clients. I plan to work on my hunting skills until early 2013. Then I'll start offering self-guided trespass-fee, then gradually move on to semi-guided hunts. In the years to come, I aspire to offer fully guided hunts, but only if my experience is up to par. I'm a man of morals and I'm in this to build a long term business with a good reputation.

This is not right and who in their right mind would get information from guys on a website rather then contacting the DFG directly? I am not buying into the whole idea and all the responses are all over the place too as there in no one in here who has ever issued alicense to anyone nor knows the formalities of which something like this requires..

I'm actually I'm running my life based on the information from this forum. I am in touch with the DFG but so far its just cookie-cutter paperwork and they're not telling me the actual low-down on how this works. This forum tells me the real deal. I realized based on this forum that I won't be able to make a decent income right away. I was living off credit cards in hopes of getting this off the ground but I took the advice here to get a day job. This forum has been a real life-saver.

 

[Bayboy2020]

The amount of money they make whether it's $5000 or $50,000 doesn't matter. Proper management is the key to success. You don't want to over hunt the property , and be careful about running dogs, as they'll run the pigs to other property's. A 1000 acres isn't a hugh property.

If you decide to sub-lease to a private group think through it as 10 plus guys hunting year round can really put a dent in the land management of the property.

Realize you can charge $400-$500 for a self guided pig hunt, $1500 plus for self guided deer hunts, and $500 plus for self guided turkey hunts.

You can make money if you manage your resources right. If you improve your property, and habitat.

If you have game on the property and guys can hunt it, especially in a camping on site, self guided access type hunt, and your there to oversee hunters follow your rules and hold them accountable to be ethical, law abiding citizens, and again the hunter has success, you will get business.

Private Club is an excellent way to go, but until you know your resources, and come up with a management plan, really think through the number of members and the number of accessible hunting day they put pressure on the property. Again 10 guys hunting every weekend will put to much pressure on your property.

Price it right. Don't under estimate what people will pay to have exclusive access to 1000 acres in California to hunt pig, deer, turkey, quail, and varmits. You could get upwards of $5000 per hunter per year, but that could ruin your property, and run off or kill off alot of game in one year. You need to look at your resources, and come up with a habitat , and game management plan.

If you do it right you will develope a good reputation and get hunters, if you do it wrong you will still develope a reputation and hunter will run from you.

Just my advice

Larry Lowell

Remembering that he has 0 hunting experience if he where to charge those prices he would have to hire an outfitter to help him run the operation. The problem I see right off the bat is that his motivation is only financial gain. Most ranchers/outfitters have multiple other streams of revenue and usually have some background. If you were going to lease to a group ground rules would have to be drawn up (see earlier post). Good tenants would not want to over hunt the property or destroy it because they would like to continue to renew the lease. What a group could pay you in a lump sum verse what you earn by having multiple hunters could easily be determined by simple research and building of a business model. The advantage of having a group lease verse a outfitted hunting operation is once you have drawn up the rules and paperwork with a lawyer your done no more work for you. The possibility of over hunting is only there if not stated in the paperwork. Another advantage is that members will police themselves as not to mess anything up for the whole group. The main point Im trying to make is that you can over hunt with an outfitter just as easy with a private group if your motivation is only money

 

[DurtenTyler]

If you have game on the property and guys can hunt it, especially in a camping on site, self guided access type hunt, and your there to oversee hunters follow your rules and hold them accountable to be ethical, law abiding citizens, and again the hunter has success, you will get business.

Okay, so, off the top of my head here are some rules...

1. One hog per person
2. Always make the best effort to retrieve an injured hog
3. Always follow all DFG guidelines (game tags, etc)
4. Make the best effort to pick up shell casings
5. No littering
6. No alcohol
7. Hog hunting only, no other animals
8. No trespassing on neighbors' land

Are these the type of rules you were talking about? If not, what rules were you talking about?

How do you oversee that hunters follow your rules on a self guided access type hunt? I'm just playing devils advocate here, and this would be worst-case-scenario, but what if a couple days after they leave I look behind a bush on the other side of the ranch and see a dead deer, untagged dead hogs, and beer cans?

 

[fishingpolesling]

DT- there's a certain amount of common sense that needs to be exercised in doing what you are doing. Don't take this as any disrespect but some of your questions and ficticious scenarios make you sound like you a lacking some common sense. I think this is why you are getting some resistence in your threads.

In your scenario of "a couple of days after" - what would YOU do? I know what I would do in your position. You either have enough sense to know what to do, or you probably shouldn't be involved with land/game management.

At the end of the day you can't simply ask enought questions and get enough answers here (or anywhere for that matter) to be prepared for every possible dilema/challenge/descision you will be faced with. You need to have enought wherewithall to be able to think on your feet and make a calculated decision and perform the action without posting "what would you do" on JHP.