Tejon Ranch

[ksberry209]

Not sure how big the ranch is or where exactly this will take place but I found this article somewhat troubling. Does anyone know anything about this development at Tejon???

http://www.the-signal.com/?module=displays...amp;format=html

 

[beastslayer]

That's been going on for a while. I recall they are now on the stage where they are preparing environmental impact study.

There are still area of Tejon that I think won't be suitable for anything other than being left as it is. But those area of stiff canyons also looks formidable even for hunting.

So enjoy Tejon for now until the development starts to happen.

 

[el_vaquero]

The ranch is around 268,000 acres I believe. If I remember right, one development will be near Lebec off I-5 and the other will be off of Hwy. 138....

 

[Speckmisser]

The development may or may not happen. If it does, it will impact a small portion of the hunting. However, this isn't likely to take place for quite some time, as the challenges from all angles are going to require a lot of legal and financial wrangling.

 

[soreloser]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Speckmisser @ May 18 2007, 02:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

If it does, it will impact a small portion of the hunting.[/b]

Don't kid yourself too much. Give it a couple of years and there won't be any hunting on Tejon.

Such a willingness to ban lead before the state mandates it, developing the property. It's all leading up to something much greater.

 

[Speckmisser]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Give it a couple of years and there won't be any hunting on Tejon.[/b]

Yeah, give it a couple of years and there won't be any hunting in the USA... why not say the same thing?

Defeatist thinking is far too often self-fulfilling.

In a couple of years, they will still be fighting to turn the first shovel-full of dirt at Tejon. Maybe in 10 years there'll be some loss of hunting opportunity... but so what? What does Tejon, as a landowner, owe you or me? If you own a few thousand acres, is it your responsibility to make sure I can hunt on it...even at the expense of your own bottom line?

Tejon Ranch is a business. It is not an individual. You can't judge the two by the same criteria...and if you insist on doing so then you insist on being disappointed. They do not exist for the public good, they exist to make money. Anyone who expects otherwise is in need of a sharp reality check.

 

[augnmike]

While I believe that there is likely to be hunting on Tejon for years to come, I also see the lead ban as complete BS! It is posturing for the sake of business deals. Which as Speck stated is their business so it's their call. The lead ban is all about being a good "steward of the environment" so that the tree huggers will see Tejon as a "team player". But that in no way takes away my right to call it as I see it.

 

[spectr17]

The map I saw in the The Times paper here showed 3 developements with big lots and big houses. One was from the lake on the south gate over to half way up Bear Trap Canyon. The other I can remember was over by Tehachipi. It will change Tejon forever so if you want to stand in the tall grass on those ridges the way it was in the 1800s you'de better get up there soon.

Anybody got that map?

 

[larrysogla]

Once those thousands upon thousands of housing units are occupied then the thousands of acres of empty land will be used by the residents for hiking, biking, nature watching and camping. You can bet that they will complain about the noise and danger of rifle fire echoing from the pig hunters, the deer hunters, the varmint hunters and the shotgun noise from the bird hunters. These residents will organize and through the threat of lawsuits will force Tejon to shutdown or curtail severely all kinds of firearm hunting. 'Nuff said.

 

[upper]

Soreloser,don't worry,the fishing is always good when the sky is falling.Chicken is good even the little ones , Upper

 

[Marty]

All the information is presented on the Tejon Ranch website.

The original map was off of an LA Times article. It did not come up in an archive search.

 

[betelgeuse]

Looks like the Centennial development will be right where the antelope are.

It's a bummer. Use it while you can. It's a great place.

I think it will be many years before development plays a big role.

 

[Zbearclaw]

I know someone that has been trying to do 80ac in Santa Clarita for fifteen years, still battling enviro issues and such, to do what Tejon is trying will take a long long time, no doubt.

 

[soreloser]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Speckmisser @ May 18 2007, 03:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Yeah, give it a couple of years and there won't be any hunting in the USA... why not say the same thing?

Defeatist thinking is far too often self-fulfilling.[/b]

One thing is for sure. Personally I could care less if Tejon closed it gates tomorrow to the public. I live 5 hours from the place, can't afford to hunt it and will only be in California for a short time. I had the pleasure of hunting it once with some friends and it was a nice place. But I don't care if they turn the whole joint into golf courses. My response to the question was simply just a blunt reminder to those of you who will reside in area for the rest of your lives and who also use Tejon on a regular basis.

No hunting in the USA, why not say that? Becuase it's stupid. Unlike California where most of the ridiculous game and fish laws are personality driven, the majority of the United States is still doing things correctly. And that is letting Hunters manage the wildlife, not the vast majority of politicians that have never seen the desert or an animal outside of a zoo.

It's funny, but as much as I dislike Ted Nugent he actually said something that made some sort of sense when he talked about these Dumb Azz Condors in California. He mentioned that the wild turkey was on the brink of destruction until the hunters and DFG took over and now there are MILLIONS of them, the Whitetail deers numbers were extremely low and were over hunted and now populations are out of control, because hunters and DFG were able to manage them. The Government and the State of California have been managing the Condor for how many years and how many are there?????

You are however correct about one thing, Tejon is about money, no one has said any different and you better believe they can make a whole bunch more money off of developement than they can do letting folks shoot pigs.

 

[Rancho Loco]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (soreloser @ May 19 2007, 12:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

The Government and the State of California have been managing the Condor for how many years and how many are there?????[/b]

A lot more than just ten years ago, but what would ted know besides shooting off a really big mouth?

As for the rest of the post, I really can't make too much sense of it, give me a few more beers and I'll give it another crack.

 

[larrysogla]

The revenue from the hunting fees and access fees is small change compared to the hundreds of millions of dollars Tejon will make from the sale of housing units and the lease and rent from the commercial lots and buildings that will follow the thousands of residents that will occupy Tejon. It is where the millions and millions are.....the real estate development and commercialization. Hunting???? Tejon will ban it in a minute to preserve the tranquility and aura of peace and comfort that they are trying to sell as atmosphere and ambiance of the place. The marketing will take precedence OVER hunting anytime because that is where the big megabucks are.
'Nuff said.

 

[easymoney]

Having grown up in So. CA I have seen this repeat itself over and over again... I used to hunt in the orange groves around Pasadena and fished in the San Gabriel River. But as all you guys from down there know that is all but gone... Commercial development is one of the only profitable avenues left to rural land owners like Tejon Ranch...
And the loss of a couple of condors will not stop it! They have been waining for decades now and it is only a matter of time before they fulfill their destiny of extinction...

 

[grtwythunter]

Soreloser, you obviously haven't paid attention to how predators have been managed throughout the West and Alaska over the past 10+ years. State by state, management is being taken out of the hands of Fish and Game departments and mandated by voters. People that have never seen a wild wolf or bear are dictating laws in states they do not reside in.

As for the condors numbers, no matter who manages their "recovery", they are doomed and will never reach sustainable numbers on their own.

I hope whatever state you choose when you leave CA is the Utopia you think still exists.

Scott

 

[Speckmisser]

You're all over the place, and it's a little tough to see the point of your rejoinder. But let's pick at it anyway...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

It's funny, but as much as I dislike Ted Nugent he actually said something that made some sort of sense when he talked about these Dumb Azz Condors in California. He mentioned that the wild turkey was on the brink of destruction until the hunters and DFG took over and now there are MILLIONS of them, the Whitetail deers numbers were extremely low and were over hunted and now populations are out of control, because hunters and DFG were able to manage them.[/b]

Let's look a little closer at a part of that statement...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

...the Whitetail deers numbers were extremely low and were over hunted and now populations are out of control...[/b]

Huh? So with hunters managing the herd, they went from out of control (almost none) to out of control (way too many)? You might, then, make a similar case for wild hogs. Since hunters have decided to "manage" these animals they went from non-existant in this country to booming in several states and spreading rapidly across the continent.

Point being, you should pick your supporting arguments carefully. Nope, Ted's heart may be in the right place, but he's still unable to engage the brain before opening his mouth.

But even given the syntactical error... hunters stepped in to manage animals that they wanted to hunt. Let's not pretend otherwise.

In general, hunters won't step in to manage the condors. Apparently, they won't even voluntarily make adjustments to their practices to help someone else manage the condors. Why? Because we can't shoot and eat them? Maybe... but that's a whole other argument, and not one I agree with.

Honestly, in my opinion the condor recovery effort is good money after bad. The birds are doomed. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'd like to be. But that doesn't change anything about Tejon Ranch's development plans... unless you want to side with the condor folks who'd like to stop it. But lord forbid hunters should side with environmentalists! Oh shudders!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

No hunting in the USA, why not say that? Becuase it's stupid. Unlike California where most of the ridiculous game and fish laws are personality driven, the majority of the United States is still doing things correctly. And that is letting Hunters manage the wildlife, not the vast majority of politicians that have never seen the desert or an animal outside of a zoo.[/b]

Except it's not just a California thing. Folks both inside and outside of this state need to open up their minds, or at least their eyes, to see that it's not just "those fruits and nuts in California". Need some help?

1. Oregon - use of dogs to chase lions (and bears?)
2. Wolf reintroduction in Yellowstone, and subsequent population control issues in Wyoming and Montana
3. Polar bears being listed on the ESL
4. New Jersey bear hunting closures
5. Maryland bear hunting closures
6. The entire CWD fiasco
7. Mandatory QDM in Pennsylvania

The "Woe-is-me" hunters across this country are saying the same thing you're saying... "Kiss hunting good-bye." So whether you're complaining about the eventual demise of hunting at Tejon, the State of California, or the whole US of A, you're all saying the same thing.

It's a fact that development is eating up a big chunk of the huntable property across the country. Most of my old hunting grounds in NC are now covered in cookie-cutter "mini-estates" and golf courses. I see it in other states too. Given the expansion of the population and the refusal of people to consider living in multi-family, shared spaces, there will almost certainly come a time when there is no more room for hunting in this country.

At some point, something's gotta give. History has shown that it probably won't be humanity. We'll push through, full steam ahead and damn the extinction rate.

As hunters, we should be working hard to preserve the wild places in this country, both for the sake of wildness and so we'll have a place to hunt. The focus there, though, should be on public property...not at the expense of private property owners' rights.

Which brings us back to Tejon's development plans and the crux of this thread...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

One thing is for sure. Personally I could care less if Tejon closed it gates tomorrow to the public. I live 5 hours from the place, can't afford to hunt it and will only be in California for a short time. I had the pleasure of hunting it once with some friends and it was a nice place. But I don't care if they turn the whole joint into golf courses. My response to the question was simply just a blunt reminder to those of you who will reside in area for the rest of your lives and who also use Tejon on a regular basis.[/b]

I'd be willing to say that the vast majority of folks on this forum don't hunt Tejon on a regular basis. A big subset of that group has probably never hunted Tejon and never will. For most of them, it really won't make any difference at all if Tejon closes the gates altogether. And that's probably what chaps me, and drags me into these discussions in the first place. So many folks who have gone on and on about how Tejon is too expensive, how they're too greedy because they charge such-and-such dollars for an elk or deer, and all the other foolishness...these are the same folks who're now crying about Tejon's development plans as if this is the end of their private hunting paradise. You weren't going to hunt there anyway? What the heck does it mean to you?

The folks who DO hunt there are certainly aware enough of the eventual loss of a great place to hunt. I'm sure it's one of many places that have been eaten up in the grind of development and human expansion. I doubt they need you or anyone else to remind them.

It's this "Internet Dogpile" mentality where everybody has to have something negative to say, even though the really know almost nothing about what they're on about. Tomorrow, another wind will blow and they'll be off on someone else's case.

I'll be honest. I really hate to see the development too. When I first saw the press releases and the maps a couple of years ago, I got angry... but it was more from the loss of some truly unique natural habitat than the possibility that I might not be able to hunt there anymore. The mere mention of "environmentally friendly golf-courses" sets my teeth on edge. It's a pure affront to the sensibilities.

But, whatever else they develop, Tejon has set aside a minimum of 100,000 acres as a wildlife preserve. 100,000 ACRES! That's no small woodlot.

Whether it's hunted or not may remain to be seen (the current plan is to keep the hunting program active), but that's really neither here nor there. The fact is, the development that's going on will certainly impact a larger margin than the housing and golf courses will take up. But at least they are taking a position as trying to remain environmentally responsible in the face of a tough economy. That's more than many private landowners can say. And who cares if the position is driven by public relations or not? The fact is, they're doing it! Shouldn't that be the important thing?

It is to me.

 

[Speckmisser]

Oh, and Larry...

You may be right in your theory, but I doubt it. If it were 100 acres, or even 1000, I have no doubt you'd be right.

But a minimum 100,000 acres is a lot of land (and that's long term... all of the slated development will leave a lot more than that). The hunting program can and will be managed quite easily on that slice of land, without any impact whatsoever on the homeowners and country-club set.

Regardless, as I said before (and some folks down at Tejon would agree), we're looking real long term here. It's gonna be quite some time before the first foundation gets dug outside of the area that's already developed (a big chunk of the area highlighted on that map is already developed).

In the meantime, if you hunt at Tejon, go enjoy. And if you don't, and don't plan to, then don't sweat it.