- Thread starter F350
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sdbowyer, yup that is big horn.
EVAN III,
You are not getting the point, the point is not if the hunt was easy or not but what the environment was. Ya some hunts are easy, for example, last year 30 minutes out of my car on opening day I bagged a nice buck. Does that make me a less of a hunter? No, but luck had a big part of it. Second, a guy sitting in a tree stand in the wild waiting for game has many things to worry about like wind direction, sound, and scent. He is in the WILD not someones back yard shooting farm animals.
EVAN III,
You are not getting the point, the point is not if the hunt was easy or not but what the environment was. Ya some hunts are easy, for example, last year 30 minutes out of my car on opening day I bagged a nice buck. Does that make me a less of a hunter? No, but luck had a big part of it. Second, a guy sitting in a tree stand in the wild waiting for game has many things to worry about like wind direction, sound, and scent. He is in the WILD not someones back yard shooting farm animals.
a guy sitting in a tree stand in the wild waiting for game has many things to worry about like wind direction, sound, and scent. He is in the WILD not someones back yard shooting farm animals.
Yeah,...What Shot said.
I just had to. The
made me do it.
Yeah,...What Shot said.
beastslayer
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How about this. My dream hunt, once I'm ready to kick the bucket, is to sneak up on a grizzly, slap it in the face, and put a 12-inch knife in it's heart. Some may still dispute this as having an unfair advantage since I have a knife. While I can counter-argue that the bear have claws and has strength 100x mine.
What I'm trying to say is that debate can go on forever, ad infinitum. And none could really say for sure who is right -- or wrong for that matter. Wrong is what is illegal or out of regulation -- but even that is debatable. Custom and traditions are stronger than laws. That's why in one country I know, its in their constitution that no laws can be passed that's contrary to customs, morals, good order...etc.
Anyway, keep the debate going without being nasty. Besides, it amuses us readers.
But keep in mind my favorite adage: "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend it with my life your right to say it."
What I'm trying to say is that debate can go on forever, ad infinitum. And none could really say for sure who is right -- or wrong for that matter. Wrong is what is illegal or out of regulation -- but even that is debatable. Custom and traditions are stronger than laws. That's why in one country I know, its in their constitution that no laws can be passed that's contrary to customs, morals, good order...etc.
Anyway, keep the debate going without being nasty. Besides, it amuses us readers.
But keep in mind my favorite adage: "I may not agree with what you say, but I'll defend it with my life your right to say it."
Beastslayer,
It's not a matter of legality or ethics, It's really a matter of definition.
If Ol' Macdonald invites you down to the Farm and says "Shucks...you can shoot one of my hogs for $300.00" and you take him up on the offer, Do you now call yourself a hunter?
i'm not saying it's wrong or illegal, I'm simply stating that in that type of scenario... IT'S NOT HUNTING ! ! !
Take methods? I don't care.
Private Land? Fine, I love it.
Public Land? Now your working for it.
Hogs that can't get away from thier oversized Pen? That is NOT Hunting, It's killing.
Look at sdbowyer's pic above. Do those look like wild pigs? Probably because they're not. That's Big Horn and those are Wilbur, Babe, and Petunia and now they're dead because someone wanted to play hunter. Legal? Yes. Do I really care? No. IS THAT HUNTING ? NO ! That's my only point "Definition".
"Hunting is not killing, Hunting is living"
Mnhntr.
JHO
It's not a matter of legality or ethics, It's really a matter of definition.
If Ol' Macdonald invites you down to the Farm and says "Shucks...you can shoot one of my hogs for $300.00" and you take him up on the offer, Do you now call yourself a hunter?
i'm not saying it's wrong or illegal, I'm simply stating that in that type of scenario... IT'S NOT HUNTING ! ! !
Take methods? I don't care.
Private Land? Fine, I love it.
Public Land? Now your working for it.
Hogs that can't get away from thier oversized Pen? That is NOT Hunting, It's killing.
Look at sdbowyer's pic above. Do those look like wild pigs? Probably because they're not. That's Big Horn and those are Wilbur, Babe, and Petunia and now they're dead because someone wanted to play hunter. Legal? Yes. Do I really care? No. IS THAT HUNTING ? NO ! That's my only point "Definition".
"Hunting is not killing, Hunting is living"
Mnhntr.
JHO
Arrowslinger
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F350, you mention definition....well, Webster's defines "hunting" as "to pursue (game) for food or sport". No mention of shooting animals in fences, above bait piles, or out of a feed trough.....some folks hunt for food and others hunt for s&!ts and giggles......who cares how or where ya do it as long as it's somewhat ethical & legal.
F350,
Yet no matter how many times you say it, people still come up with a scenerio, well what if........
Well what if I was 1/4 lion, 1/4 wolf, 1/4 hawk, and 1/4 human... and I killed two pigs while they were crossing the road by my house during the day with the sun out and the wheather nice, oh and two of the pigs were blind, is that considered hunting?
I point is "well what if..." scenerios can go on forever, but there is a clear difference between killing and hunting, now some hunters know the difference and unfortunatly some do not. Take it as you will... Hunting = (place your favorite scenerio here)
And yes this thread is interesting, thats why I post here.
Yet no matter how many times you say it, people still come up with a scenerio, well what if........
Well what if I was 1/4 lion, 1/4 wolf, 1/4 hawk, and 1/4 human... and I killed two pigs while they were crossing the road by my house during the day with the sun out and the wheather nice, oh and two of the pigs were blind, is that considered hunting?
I point is "well what if..." scenerios can go on forever, but there is a clear difference between killing and hunting, now some hunters know the difference and unfortunatly some do not. Take it as you will... Hunting = (place your favorite scenerio here)
And yes this thread is interesting, thats why I post here.
Arrowslinger,
You really believe walking up on a hog and shooting it is pursuit ?
Would you Mount Miss Piggy
to your wall and then brag of "The Hunt" to your buddies?
"Yeah man, after we woke this one up with a cattle prod, she ran like lightning."
"There I am proned out in the grass a good fifty feet away and BLAM!!!, a one shot kill."
And yet again I'll say it, I don't really care what the method of take is if it's legal and Further don't really care if it's for meat or sport. Side Note: I only kill what I'm willing to eat except ground squirels.
Weather it's Webster's or Funk & Wagnel's dictionary, If you walk up to something and kill it without fair chase, IT'S NOT HUNTING.
Look at SD's pic above, Wild Pigs??? Gimme a Break
Oh, and SHOT?,
Cheers Man.
You really believe walking up on a hog and shooting it is pursuit ?
Would you Mount Miss Piggy
"Yeah man, after we woke this one up with a cattle prod, she ran like lightning."
"There I am proned out in the grass a good fifty feet away and BLAM!!!, a one shot kill."
And yet again I'll say it, I don't really care what the method of take is if it's legal and Further don't really care if it's for meat or sport. Side Note: I only kill what I'm willing to eat except ground squirels.
Weather it's Webster's or Funk & Wagnel's dictionary, If you walk up to something and kill it without fair chase, IT'S NOT HUNTING.
Look at SD's pic above, Wild Pigs??? Gimme a Break
Oh, and SHOT?,
sdbowyer
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I hope I never have to do 'Ballistic Studies' there either. I had to steal that one from you F350. But hey, actually a JHO investigative trip might not be a bad idea. A review team to see for ourselves. We could all pitch in and have one heck of an underground BBQ afterwards. We'll draw straws and the loser has to shoot the pig.
bayedsolid
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Well, I've held out long enough. 
I think it just comes down to what makes you happy. As long as you are happy, who cares what the next guy thinks? My whole life is, and has always been, revolved around hunting, every week of every year. I hunt more than anyone I know, but I don't look down on someone that doesn't hunt as much or doesn't have as many 'trophies'. If someone saves up thousands of dollars, goes on a guided elk hunt in New Mexico, and has a wonderful time, good for him. I wouldn't do it though. I wouldn't dream of paying a guide to take me hunting anywhere. I wouldn't get very much enjoyment out of having someone else take me around unfarmiliar land and putting me on some game to shoot. To me that's shooting, not hunting. My idea of hunting is the challenge of the whole pursuit. I'll pack in for miles, sleep in the dirt, eat canned beans for days on end, and when I take something, I've earned it. I do it because that's what it takes for me to enjoy the sport. Someone else that is not in shape, or doesn't enjoy roughing it the way I do, or who's life isn't revolved around hunting like mine is, would just think what I put myself through would not be worth it no matter how big the trophy on the other end would be. To them, a guided hunt with a shot out of the pickup window might give them the same amount of satisfaction that a week long, hard fought hunt gives me. Who's to say they don't deserve it??? People don't hunt purely for the enjoyment of the outdoors. They want to kill the animal they are after. If you don't, you are called hikers, or bird watchers. Someone just starting out, or someone that only hunts once a year might enjoy a high fence hunt because they can kill something. If you only hunted once a year and hoofed it on public land, how many years of never killing, or seeing for that matter, any game would it take for you to say screw this, I'm taking up golf? If it makes you happy, good for you and have fun.
When I'm talking about hunting here, I'm talking everything but hogs. I don't rifle hunt hogs. I'm sure some of you know I run dogs for hogs. When I take someone, they have a great time 'cause they know they are going to kill some hogs. Did they really earn the hogs? No, I did......my dogs did, besides the cramps in their legs for the next two weeks, but that doesn't mean they didn't enjoy the hunt or the freezer full of meat. At this stage of the game, unless it has over 3 inches of teeth I don't even get excited, and it takes 4 inches of teeth for me to consider it a really good one. It's about the dogs more than the hogs. So everyone has a different idea of what's enjoyable, so do what suits you best and have fun. Besides, one animal killed behind a high fence is one more left on open land for the rest of us.......just remember, I'm always gonna be one ridge farther in.
I think it just comes down to what makes you happy. As long as you are happy, who cares what the next guy thinks? My whole life is, and has always been, revolved around hunting, every week of every year. I hunt more than anyone I know, but I don't look down on someone that doesn't hunt as much or doesn't have as many 'trophies'. If someone saves up thousands of dollars, goes on a guided elk hunt in New Mexico, and has a wonderful time, good for him. I wouldn't do it though. I wouldn't dream of paying a guide to take me hunting anywhere. I wouldn't get very much enjoyment out of having someone else take me around unfarmiliar land and putting me on some game to shoot. To me that's shooting, not hunting. My idea of hunting is the challenge of the whole pursuit. I'll pack in for miles, sleep in the dirt, eat canned beans for days on end, and when I take something, I've earned it. I do it because that's what it takes for me to enjoy the sport. Someone else that is not in shape, or doesn't enjoy roughing it the way I do, or who's life isn't revolved around hunting like mine is, would just think what I put myself through would not be worth it no matter how big the trophy on the other end would be. To them, a guided hunt with a shot out of the pickup window might give them the same amount of satisfaction that a week long, hard fought hunt gives me. Who's to say they don't deserve it??? People don't hunt purely for the enjoyment of the outdoors. They want to kill the animal they are after. If you don't, you are called hikers, or bird watchers. Someone just starting out, or someone that only hunts once a year might enjoy a high fence hunt because they can kill something. If you only hunted once a year and hoofed it on public land, how many years of never killing, or seeing for that matter, any game would it take for you to say screw this, I'm taking up golf? If it makes you happy, good for you and have fun. When I'm talking about hunting here, I'm talking everything but hogs. I don't rifle hunt hogs. I'm sure some of you know I run dogs for hogs. When I take someone, they have a great time 'cause they know they are going to kill some hogs. Did they really earn the hogs? No, I did......my dogs did, besides the cramps in their legs for the next two weeks
, but that doesn't mean they didn't enjoy the hunt or the freezer full of meat. At this stage of the game, unless it has over 3 inches of teeth I don't even get excited, and it takes 4 inches of teeth for me to consider it a really good one. It's about the dogs more than the hogs. So everyone has a different idea of what's enjoyable, so do what suits you best and have fun. Besides, one animal killed behind a high fence is one more left on open land for the rest of us.......just remember, I'm always gonna be one ridge farther in.
F350, you pay a guide who in turn runs you all over the ranch for 6 hrs and then says"I know where they are!!" . He then runs you back across the ranch and low and behold....theres the pigs you been "hunting" all day. Bang!!! One dead pig. Odds are the guide could have run you to them the first hour but they are not stupid. They know "Joe Hunter" wants to feel like he has been on a hunt.....so he drives you around the ranch all day. Guides are like wrestlers in the WWF. They know how to put on a good show and make you feel like you have been on a hunt.
The herdsman at the ranch I hunt asked if I would take him and his new son-in-law hunting with the dogs. They had been about 4 times and hadn't seen a pig and his son- in law(I'll call him Bruce) had never killed a pig. I loaded up Hunter and Winchester that next morning and met them at daylight. There is heavy brush over most of this ranch and, not being an "experienced" guide, I drove to what I deemed a good spot. I heard Winchester barking in the box when I drove up so I knew they were close. Stopped and let the two dogs out and they left the truck in high gear. Me and Bruce were standing at the truck drinking coffee and loading the guns and the herdsman had taken off after the dogs( you don't do that when hunting with dogs).
It wasn't 2 minutes and we heard 2 shots so we finished our coffee and headed out. Rhe herdsman had a smile from ear to ear and a 175lb boar down. By the time we drug it to the shade the dogs were locked up again about 500yds down the mountain. We headed down there at a fast pace. The dogs had a 250lb boar backed up in real heavy brush. I didn't want them shooting my dogs so I went in behind and spooked the boar hoping to catch him in a better spot. After about 150 to 200yds he hit a pretty clear area and the dogs put the brakes on him. We got there and Bruce dispatched the boar(which is now mounted). the cutters were just shy of 3"s. They dragged the boar to a lower rd we had access to and we started back up the mountain for the truck. About halfway to the truck we heard the dogs locked up again about 200yds up behind us. We got there and it was a war zone. The dogs had another boar up under a tree that had fallen in a steep draw. They were fighting in under all the limbs on the tree. Winchester had him by the snout and Hunter had him by the ear. The battle finally got to where I could get in there with a pistol and kill the hog. Both dogs were injured with that one. Winchester was retired after that at 11yrs Hunter is still going strong and recovered from that one. Now to get to the interesting part of the story....In my mind, being a dog man, it was about as perfect a hunt as could be asked for other than the injuries. We took 3 nice boars in just over an hour. We get loaded into the truck and Bruce tells me that that was really exciting....what a rush and all that.....but he doesn't even feel like he has been hunting. He said he can't remember when he was this tired as he had been running up and down mountains for an hour. He said he would much prefer to get out and hunt like normal people do. Now the herdsman is not a real hunter but he thought it was fascinating watching the dogs work and he would rather hunt this way because he had other things to do. He liked it because we got in and got it done. Moral of the story....everyone has their own ideas about what works for them. I am a dog hunter and a meat hunter, the herdsman is a meat hunter, and well Bruce, he is a hunter and does it for the fun of it I guess.
The herdsman at the ranch I hunt asked if I would take him and his new son-in-law hunting with the dogs. They had been about 4 times and hadn't seen a pig and his son- in law(I'll call him Bruce) had never killed a pig. I loaded up Hunter and Winchester that next morning and met them at daylight. There is heavy brush over most of this ranch and, not being an "experienced" guide, I drove to what I deemed a good spot. I heard Winchester barking in the box when I drove up so I knew they were close. Stopped and let the two dogs out and they left the truck in high gear. Me and Bruce were standing at the truck drinking coffee and loading the guns and the herdsman had taken off after the dogs( you don't do that when hunting with dogs).
It wasn't 2 minutes and we heard 2 shots so we finished our coffee and headed out. Rhe herdsman had a smile from ear to ear and a 175lb boar down. By the time we drug it to the shade the dogs were locked up again about 500yds down the mountain. We headed down there at a fast pace. The dogs had a 250lb boar backed up in real heavy brush. I didn't want them shooting my dogs so I went in behind and spooked the boar hoping to catch him in a better spot. After about 150 to 200yds he hit a pretty clear area and the dogs put the brakes on him. We got there and Bruce dispatched the boar(which is now mounted). the cutters were just shy of 3"s. They dragged the boar to a lower rd we had access to and we started back up the mountain for the truck. About halfway to the truck we heard the dogs locked up again about 200yds up behind us. We got there and it was a war zone. The dogs had another boar up under a tree that had fallen in a steep draw. They were fighting in under all the limbs on the tree. Winchester had him by the snout and Hunter had him by the ear. The battle finally got to where I could get in there with a pistol and kill the hog. Both dogs were injured with that one. Winchester was retired after that at 11yrs Hunter is still going strong and recovered from that one. Now to get to the interesting part of the story....In my mind, being a dog man, it was about as perfect a hunt as could be asked for other than the injuries. We took 3 nice boars in just over an hour. We get loaded into the truck and Bruce tells me that that was really exciting....what a rush and all that.....but he doesn't even feel like he has been hunting. He said he can't remember when he was this tired as he had been running up and down mountains for an hour. He said he would much prefer to get out and hunt like normal people do. Now the herdsman is not a real hunter but he thought it was fascinating watching the dogs work and he would rather hunt this way because he had other things to do. He liked it because we got in and got it done. Moral of the story....everyone has their own ideas about what works for them. I am a dog hunter and a meat hunter, the herdsman is a meat hunter, and well Bruce, he is a hunter and does it for the fun of it I guess.
hicntry,
I don't think you get the point. It was said that it is not about the METHOD of take. Good for you on that successful hunt, it seem exciting just reading about it.
Now picture this, how would you feel if some guy runs dogs on farm pigs? Do you call that hunting? They are farm/domestic/friendly animals. You see the point that F350 was trying to make. Its a whole different thing.
I don't care what makes people happy (thats their life), but when I call myself a hunter and someone else that hunts farm animals calls himself/herself hunter, I do not want to be catergorized with that group. Maybe I should call myself wild animal hunter just to be clear.
I don't think you get the point. It was said that it is not about the METHOD of take. Good for you on that successful hunt, it seem exciting just reading about it.
Now picture this, how would you feel if some guy runs dogs on farm pigs? Do you call that hunting? They are farm/domestic/friendly animals. You see the point that F350 was trying to make. Its a whole different thing.
I don't care what makes people happy (thats their life), but when I call myself a hunter and someone else that hunts farm animals calls himself/herself hunter, I do not want to be catergorized with that group. Maybe I should call myself wild animal hunter just to be clear.
